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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 09 Oct 2013 Posts: 6

Hi Y'all,

I've been reading the 419 Eater site for a couple years now, but never posted. I haven't baited anybody before, but the thought is quite tempting. Anyway, I have a "live one" here if anyone on the forum is interested:

***begin spam/scam text***

FROM: somename
ADDRESS:
SUBJECT: Unexpected Sad Trip!!!

I really hope you get this fast. I could not inform anyone about our trip, because it was impromptu. we had to be in Ukraine for a program. The program was successful, but our journey has turned sour. we misplaced our wallet and cell phone on our way back to the hotel we lodge in after we went for sight seeing. The wallet contained all the valuables we had. Now, our passport is in custody of the hotel management pending when we make payment.

I am sorry if i am inconveniencing you, but i have only very few people to run to now. i will be indeed very grateful if i can get a loan of £1,600 from you. this will enable me sort our hotel bills and get my sorry self back home. I will really appreciate whatever you can afford in assisting me with. I promise to refund it in full as soon as I return. let me know if you can be of any assistance. Please, let me know soonest. Thanks so much..

*** end scam text ***

If someone wants to pick this up... I'd like to see how it's done, so to speak. Smile

Surely one of you has 1600 pounds to loan this poor chap! lol

Best wishes all,

Citrine[/i]

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:59 am

Looks like a beggar to me. We don't bait those.

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:16 am

I'd edit your post and delete the email address.

The email could be a case of where someone's email address got taken over and the scammer is contacting folks in the address book.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 09 Oct 2013 Posts: 6

Duckling wrote:

Looks like a beggar to me. We don't bait those.

What's the difference between a scammer and a beggar? I mean, does it actually matter how they ask for money? I guess the scammer promises money first, then asks you for a "small fee". In contrast, a beggar is just a little quicker about getting to the gimme-your-money part... they skip the initial step of promising something amazing.

Either way, they're both attempting to fool us with a manufactured situation, and an appeal to our sympathy. It sounds like the same thing to me.

Perhaps the 'beggar' in this case is hoping that someone will go, "Gosh, I can't spare 1600 but I'll give you 50..." Then they try to reel in more cash with a continuation of the sad story.

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:03 pm

We can't bait them either as the scammer may have personal information of the person who's account has been hacked.

Baiting Guru Joined: 27 Mar 2011 Posts: 21155

Beggars are doing nothing illegal, therefore we do not bait them. I am not real sure this actually falls into that category but this is one of those iffy types.

If this mail is coming from the hacked account of one of your friends or contacts then that would explain a lot. They often do this and it really isn't baitable because we have no way of knowing what type of information they have on that person that could possibly harm them.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 09 Oct 2013 Posts: 6

next victim wrote:

Beggars are doing nothing illegal, therefore we do not bait them. I am not real sure this actually falls into that category but this is one of those iffy types.

Ok, I'm not trying to be confrontational or troll the forum here, but at what point does it become illegal?

I agree this is iffy--because it's not the usual, "Hi I'm Norbert Ubuntu from the 1st Bank of Lagos, I need to transfer 6,000,000 USD into your account..." Instead it's simply asking for financial assistance for some fabricated emergency. Really... they're both bullsh*tters. So what does the beggar need to do in order to make this an illegal activity?

I'm really asking because I'm new to this world of scamming and I guess I don't know the rules, (apparently there are a few.)

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:10 pm

next victim wrote:

I am not real sure this actually falls into that category but this is one of those iffy types.

Yeah, that's why I said "looks like" and "to me" as well. We can be pretty much 100 % sure that he is not who he claims and he has no intention of ever paying this "loan" back. But I still wouldn't consider it an advance fee fraud, because of the lack of promise other than paying back. He is not claiming you've won a lottery or that there are millions of dollars waiting for only you, if only you pay him money. He is simply asking you to pay him money. Under false pretenses, yes, but technically nothing more than that.

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:14 pm

Welcome to eater citrine!
Indeed, there are a few rules and the site moderators are in the process of updating the "welcome" files to make things clearer and less cluttered.
If you're interested in doing more baiting, I strongly suggest you sign up for a mentor who can help you through some of the starting-up issues one-on-one.

One way to see the "dividing line" is related to the kinds of scams we primarily deal with here - advance fee fraud, in which fees are introduced as an obstacle to obtaining something (a large sum, as in your example; or a job; or a visit from an online lover; or an apartment rental; etc etc) that will never materialize.

In this case the first message comes out and asks for the money. One may ask if it's ok to bait in cases where a beggar is lying -- but it becomes very difficult in most cases to fully establish truth in such cases.

However, a plausible alternative in this case was suggested by next victim - where the account has been hijacked by a scammer who is pretending to be the person sending the message. (The so-called "Stranded Abroad" type of scam ("mugged in London", "stranded in Italy"). If this is the case the writer is definitely a scammer and not just a beggar --- but there is an extra complication that gets in the way of baiting.

This is that the original person who owns the account is clearly identifiable, as are the recipients of the message. So if you begin baiting them, it's possible that you could put the original account holder at risk. This falls into what we call the ITP (Innocent Third Party) rule, where baiting should not endanger people who are not scammers or taking the risks of baiting with full knowledge. As a result it's difficult to bait this kind of scam.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 09 Oct 2013 Posts: 6

I see what happened. Back in 2011 I contacted (for the sake of argument) "Alice" about her web page. She had an address <[email protected]> when I wrote to her in 2011.

Now, I'm getting this message from "Alice" but with a different address: <[email protected]>

So, what I'm guessing is that Alice's account at 'example.com' has been hacked--easy enough with a good password guessing script--and a spam bot is sending this "help me" message to everyone in her contacts list... EXCEPT, it's got the scammer's valid e-mail address. Anybody can make an account on "example.com" since it's public, so it's actually valid.

So I guess the best thing to do in this case is to simply report "[email protected]" to their system admins and have the account shut down.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to answer & explain.

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:57 pm

Firehouse is on the money here - it's a hacked email "stranded abroad" scam

http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=71791&p=165303
http://gdb.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=164047

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