How do the scammers operate?

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Not quite a Newb Joined: 13 Jan 2014 Posts: 25

Hi,

I was wondering how their organization is, what kind of programs they use to send out spam mails, and which one they use when they are milking their victims, and I mean specific details, like if they prefer specific programs etc

Just want to get behind the scenes and figure out their workflow to better predict their response and know their limitations. A internet search came up empty. for instance I wonder if a scammer knows who he sent emails, if they have acces to the same range of programs we use, I believe internet cafe's must have limited software offers etc.

have any one constructed a "rapport"?

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18312

Svenin wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering how their organization is, what kind of programs they use to send out spam mails, and which one they use when they are milking their victims, and I mean specific details, like if they prefer specific programs etc

Just want to get behind the scenes and figure out their workflow to better predict their response and know their limitations. A internet search came up empty. for instance I wonder if a scammer knows who he sent emails, if they have acces to the same range of programs we use, I believe internet cafe's must have limited software offers etc.

There's not one answer, because there are a lot of different scammers and they don't all operate the same way.

Many use mailers and buy lists of addresses to bomb out their scripts by thousands, using a "reply to" address to receive any replies. But not all scammers do this. I have seen scammers who use one email address for each romance victim.
Generally, you can reply to a scam email you did not receive and the scammer will happily continue on with you, not remembering who he sent it out to.
The best way to learn is to bait.

Quote:

(I was also wondering if anyone knows if there is any active hacking of scammer account occuring, and where it is reported?)

No and this is not something condoned here. Please familiarize yourself with the forum rules, here: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=176248

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:37 pm

Some successful scammers run their operations like a business, with chains of command and lower level scammers doing the grunt work, before referring the promising marks up the chain.

There are various programs they use for spamming out the initial mail, but once you reply to them, it will just be copied and pasted scripts using webmail.

A response to a mail in surplus will show that the scammers don't have a clue who they sent their initial mail to and they'll reply to anyone.

As to the hacking - that is done by L33T DUDES and is illegal - so it is not done or discussed here.

ETA: Must learn to type faster and not stop half way through to do other things.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 13 Jan 2014 Posts: 25

allright hadn'r read the general rules about the subject..

I usually don't, people like you usually point out breaches very fast.

but just for the record, wasn't trying to do anything specific, it was just a generel questions as this is a place were you must likely could get an answer

but i will remove the reference in the originial post

Not quite a Newb Joined: 13 Jan 2014 Posts: 25

I realise this subject cannot be readily compartmentalised, but there must be general trends, I was hoping for a link to a previous tred, webpage or the like. as others must have have pondered on this

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18312

Svenin wrote:

I usually don't, people like you usually point out breaches very fast.

People like me? Laughing

It's more polite, and saves us time, if you read the rules. Wink

Quote:

I realise this subject cannot be readily compartmentalised, but there must be general trends, I was hoping for a link to a previous tred, webpage or the like. as others must have have pondered on this

I'm not sure you'll find much info specifically on how scammers operate here, but what you will find is a lot of info on how to bait them. That info does include information on what generally works, due to typical scammer techniques and responses.

There is a topic with several links for new members here: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=237673

If you look in the Eater University forum here at Eater (last on the bottom of the index), you'll find a lot of tutorials. If you'd like information on how specific scams tend to work (written for the general public and not about baiting), you can read the Introduction to Scams forum at our sister site, ScamWarners.com: http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3

Baiting Guru Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 5905

If you want a general academic overview:

Chidi Nnamdi Igwe, 'Taking Back Nigeria From 419'

I have read most of the books on 419 out there and this is the best one by miles in my opinion. And it's on sale for just over a fiver (£5) can't go wrong for that price Very Happy

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Taking-Back-Nigeria-419-Scam-Advance-Fee/dp/0595442218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389731791&sr=8-1&keywords=taking+back+nigeria+from+419

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:53 pm

Another overview of an astonishing variety of scam types there are many well researched articles at http://www.antifraudnews.com/ covering a big variety of lad techniques and approaches. http://www.antifraudnews.com/top-10-internet-scams/ covers most of the scam types we see.

To answer your question re-raw data, looking through one of my catcher accounts over the last week to try to give you some idea of weighting: Loan scams, recovery scams, inheritance scams and lottery scams but also a fair proportion of romance scams too - that is their prevalence in that order approximately - loan scams being the most prevalent. I didn't count them as there were too damn many even over just the last week!

Interestingly Arabic spam in roman script is oddly increasing over the last 10 months or so - the words are all run together, so only a native speaker can translate - not auto translate software. I often wonder what that's about. For all I know it's propaganda related, but might be lads trying to recruit other Arabic speaking lads. I'd be fascinated to find out.

Happy hunting.

p.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 13 Jan 2014 Posts: 25

The "you" wasn't meant to imply anything, so I hope no offense was taken,

no I usually don't read forum rules as they usually evolves into massve rule set were the first is forgotten when the last is read.. and the links in welcome mail is broken, but I usually just follow the tone of the fora Smile

And to 4x1x9 yes exactly like that.. just hoped fof a free solutiob but 5£ is not unreasonable

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:15 pm

^ Looks good. Buying that.

ETA: present for me Smile

happy days.

If you need in-depth info on particular scammer methods, formats or techniques, just yell in HHT and someone will sort you out. As we stay here for year on year and grow mushrooms where we used to have hair and teeth, we tend to specialise in targetting particular scammer species - gold lads, wash-wash gangs, rental scammers, orphanage scammers, soldier bois, pet scammers, love lads, the whole menagerie of filthy parasites has at some time been examined in detail.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18312

Svenin wrote:

The "you" wasn't meant to imply anything, so I hope no offense was taken,

I found it amusing and was wondering just what type of person I am!

Quote:

no I usually don't read forum rules as they usually evolves into massve rule set were the first is forgotten when the last is read.. and the links in welcome mail is broken, but I usually just follow the tone of the fora Smile

Thanks for the feedback on the welcome PM - I'll make sure that is fixed. Our rules shouldn't be too daunting to read and we actually do want people to be familiar with them.

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:09 pm

Ima Baeder wrote:

I found it amusing and was wondering just what type of person I am!

REBEL SCUM.

wait, wrong movie.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 13 Jan 2014 Posts: 25

I was trying to find out what the netcafees charge by the hour in nigera which is 100-200 Nairas (0.6-1.2$). and saw the comment on this site
http://coinmill.com/NGN_USD.html

Quote:

I would like to send some money to my friend who is an American via Western Union. Can he collect the money personally or must I use a citizen of Nigeria to collect the money on his behalf?

Quote:

I am trying to send my fiance in Nigeria some money through Western Union, for his visa fees and plane ticket. But how much do you think he will need in USD? And will they convert it to Naira upon arriving there?

Quote:

my friend wants to borrow money, she wants 60 uk pounds but she lives in nigeria and wants it in usd how much do i give the western union when i find one?

it seems that the love scams are thriving

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:27 pm

I feel that particulars about how scammers organize beyond using that information to bait or (better still) arrest them ought to be difficult to find. A few lads do indeed find their way to this and similar sites from time to time. One thing we are NOT about is educating or organizing these thieves.

Scammer ignorance is indeed bliss.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:01 pm

There is no fixed rule about who 419 scammers are, but many generalisations.

If you've seen any of the videos produced here by lads, there are many that live in modern detached homes with top of the range cars, and the successful ones can afford them. Many are located abroad and travel by plane probably more than many members here.

My baiting is based on generalisations I've learned but I accept that I may be wrong and am always prepared to learn something new and adapt my baiting accordingly. 419 scammers are based in every country from China to the USA and UK, and the ones based in the West are likely to be more knowledgeable about our culture and are less likely to fall for wild stories.

Internet cafe Lads still exist but not all 419 scams come from that source.

One scam I came across even involved an LLC that had been set up in the USA. Inevitably 419 scammer are learning and adapting, so baiters must.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 13 Jan 2014 Posts: 25

I'm sorry I dissagree with your point

indeed scammers ignorance is bliss, and the purpose of this fora is to hinder their activities without breaking the law (or atleast to the extendit is possibel).

but to refuse to discuss how they operate as to not educate them doesn't make sense, as we also needs to be educated for our own sake and our baiter abilities. Sure i realise the odd scammer who wanders into the forum might learn a thing or two by reading this post if it contained anything of substance. But that is nothing new, the same could be said for the entire fora that point out flaws in their stories or documents and ridicoulus claims, the list of different formats ready to pick for a scammer or atleast be inspired by, IP hiding etc.
and even though we play them for fools by asking them to get one form or the other, answer though questions etc. we also makes them more prepared to respond to real victims reguest as their arsenal is similiar improved.

We are for them a petty nuisancet hat sometimes strikes a real blow to a scammer, but we probably do little to the scammers as a whole. That is at least my belief. And offcourse some scammers must be selfeducated, but I have an understanding that they in reallife use mentors as can be read from the fake laddies and most of them must also atleast have a basic understanding of nigerian culture, slang, how they bait themself etc. and it is that knowledge I seek to gain.
I would also like to get specifics about protocols, programs, organisation. But if anyone deems the information to dangerous then don't post it, but cannot really see what should be.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 13 Jan 2014 Posts: 25

BTW just clearify my point is not the forum is stupid and counterproductive.

but more the tired old cliche

Quote:

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 7101 Location: Yes

@Svenin --

I am not entirely sure of your point or objective. But, you seem to be largely interested in learning about how lads operate, including their organization, methods and tendencies. Wonderful. Sun Tzu was a righteous dude.

Two suggestions: (1) read a lot. Read old posts, new posts and those in between. Read some of the legendary baits that will provide you with hours of entertaining education. When you are done reading, read some more. (2) get a mentor and pester him/her with questions (learn how here). I am sure he/she will love to answer them.

When done, start baiting and learn by experience. You'll find that it's hard to generalize with lads. Just when you think you have them pinned down, one will throw a wrench into your carefully crafted schematic.

I am not worried about lads learning how to organize from Eater. Most can't be bothered to waste their time on a site full of "jokers". But I would stress that your approach of being spoon-fed reams of information when you're just learning how to bait is a bit presumptuous. You will honestly learn more by doing and asking pointed questions along the way, rather than asking for us to outline the details of large and widespread criminal organizations.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:53 pm

^^^^^ I totally agree JMRazor !

Svenin - From your questions and comments on this thread and the other thread you started shows that you don't like to read.

You want to know how these scammers work? There is a plethora of information here and your question(s) will be answered in a couple of ways.

1) Read
a) the stickies- yes, those stickiies you don't like to read, those are probably the best way to find what you are looking for.
b) Previous baits- You would be surprised how much you will learn.

2) Get a mentor

3) Bait. The only true way you are going to find out how these lowlifes work is to bait some lads yourself. We can provide you ways to bait safe, but you will not understand and see how scammers work until you actually interact with them.

There are as many ways as to how scammers operate as there are scammers. There is no "organization" across all lads across all regions. There isn't even an organized way they scam when they sit right next to each other in the internet cafes.

So, the best advice we can give you is to do something you don't seem to enjoy and that is read stickies and old baits. Wink

Not quite a Newb Joined: 13 Jan 2014 Posts: 25

Wow what a response, is that for voicing my opinion?

> JMRazor
You used the word presumptious, dont you think it is quite presumptious yourself to assume that I'm new to this or I haven't tried to retrieve this information by the net and searching the forums. Razz

the forum actually really don't provide any specifics from behind the scenes (not their methods, lingo etc. there is plenty of that).
and for the spoonfed comment I asked for a link, se my first entry

Quote:

have any one constructed a "rapport"?

but I think you missed my initial point.

> Somebuddyathome
I think JMRazors comment was finely worded, if a little presumptious, but I think you are quite condesensing

a/ I had not read the sticky when i introduced a now deleted subpart of this subject, but thats about it - I don't know where the repeated comment about my dislike of reading comes from, but they are probably only meant to insult.

b/ Yes I have read severel old bait stories which are educationel, but not on the topic of this entry.

Quote:

I was wondering how their organization is, what kind of programs they use to send out spam mails, and which one they use when they are milking their victims, and I mean specific details, like if they prefer specific programs etc

2-3/ I have read about the mentor program, it is mentioned in severel manuals and tutorials on this forum, and while it seems great I don't believe I need an introduction to basic baiting. I'm new at this forum, but not at baiting itself, I have done plenty of what you call straightbaits, my initial joining was because I wanted to hear see if there was any way to close down the bankaccount you receive.

and about their organization, I have never implied they all should be organized, but some of them are organised, severel topics here are about fake lads pretending to mentor real lads, teams of lad that works together, referel from one email to another.

Anyhow I can clearly read atleast a few of you have have missunderstood my intention with the topic. But I hope it get back on track or die a natural death.

Baiting Guru Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 5905

One thing I forgot to mention last night if you are after statistics on 419 fraud try this site:

http://www.ultrascan-agi.com/

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:50 pm

Mailing software - there are numerous different mailers available, both web and machine based. Lads use whatever they can get their hands on. If you really want to know what is being used trawl through a few posts in surplus and you should see the x-mailer entry in the header that says what was used to send the message.

But when it comes to it the s/w they use is irrelevant to baiting them - the email arrives and you reply to it. The fact that it was sent by SPAMMailer v2.0 is neither here or there.

Organisation - some lads work on their own in a cafe others are part of highly organised groups. There is no hard and fast rule.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 13 Jan 2014 Posts: 25

> B8er, true the specific mailsystems tosend is not that important, but is however interresting, but the one they receive with has some merits. I corresponded with a lad who contacted me at my private mail, and I corresponded a litlle back and forth with him and his "superviser", but I realised that outlook had embeded my name in the emails next to my email adress as I had set my account settings correct at that time which was unfortunate, that meant that I could se my own name in the return header in his emails, but not all the time which lead me to the conclusion that he must use different programs which is odd or the mailservers handle the emails differently. And I also wondered why he hadn't called me on my alter ego so I don't think he could se the name which is also odd as they use nametags for their emails all the time.
anyway there is no worry other than i finished my correspondace with him immediately, but it left me wondering how they actually do it when they sit at the computer. I realise there must be precious little info, but a documentary of a scammer etc. would clear alot up.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:25 pm

Svenin wrote:

... a documentary of a scammer etc. would clear alot up.

My friend, look no further than the 'UK TV Documentary' Thread on Page One of this very Forum.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:31 pm

Well, the only thing I can say is if you don't want to have a mentor, then that is your propagative, but you will be missing out on one of the best resources eater has to offer.

I am not being condescending, I am just matching the tone that I am reading from your posts. I have read the other thread where you said you don't like to read the stickies in a forum. If you don't like to read the stickies, where over a decade of information is compiled into those threads, you might find the answers to the questions you are looking for. I can tell you haven't because some of your comments proves my point.

This forum is well organized, and I, as a baiter, really don't give a crap what email software they use. What does it matter? That is irrelevant. What we do here (or at least I do) is waste a lads time, money and resources so they don't spend that time with a real victim. It's really that simple. If we wasted time trying to figure out what software program they are using, we are taking our focus off a lowlife scum who doesn't deserve to breathe. Who is most likely preying on a real victim.

I am sure there are forums out there which analyze the scammers. If I had the choice of which I would prefer to do, I would rather spend my time baiting a lad rather than analyze him, figure out what tools he uses etc. He does what ever he can and uses whatever he can to steal money from innocent people. That is the answer to your question. It really as simple as that. Whatever he can get his hands on, and he will lie, cheat, steal and even kill to get it.

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