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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:45 am

I think perhaps the Lesbian Thing is 'distracting' people [wags finger] from the fact that this woman is behaving in a way that would absolutely not be tolerated if it was a man doing this to you. It's sexual harrassment. The tricky part is how to deal with it effectively without causing problems for yourself now or later. There is some truth in the old adage "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" Crying or Very sad

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:53 am

^^^ How is it sexual harassment?!

Sexual harassment does not extend to someone feeling uncomfortable with something someone else is saying unless they voice that feeling to the other person.

I think you will find this is not harassment.

Have a look here for some examples of sexual harassment (NSW Government Publication): http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/adb/ll_adb.nsf/pages/adb_harassment#is

Quote:

In terms of anti-discrimination law, sexual harassment is any form of sexually related behaviour that:

* you do not want; and
* in the circumstances, a reasonable person would have expected you to be offended humiliated or intimidated.

Unless it is blatant then you cannot reasonably expect that just because you are a friendly or flirtatious person that other people will automatically perceive that you want to jump them.

From what i've read there is no suggestion of sexual harassment here.

The day she says "wow, thats a nice dress, but it would look better on my bedroom floor" is the day it becomes harassment.

In the meantime, it is something Eliza needs to deal with. I have yet to see any sexually related behaviour (unless i'm reading this totally wrong) that would reasonably be expected to offend someone... I just see a lot of compliments and low cut dresses (if that is against the law then there's a lot of criminals out there!).

If a male comments on a female colleagues tan it is a compliment, not harassment... let's not go British P.C. Overdrive here.

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:53 am

I have several Bi sexual women friends. One told me that ALL women fantasize about other women. I am not saying this is true but I am saying how some Bi women think. It sounds like this chick is into you but is just testing the water.

Telling her you are into men is just not good enough. You have to tell her you�re not into other girls. Don�t say it as indicating you are not into her since she has power over you. This will indicate that you think she is gay or bi and she will probably be offended, embarrassed, hurt , or all three. Just bring up a famous lesbian couple and tell her how gross you think that is and say it as if you, in no way, suspect she is gay or Bi. This will let her know she has no chance with you and she will move on to someone else.

Unless she really likes you and thinks she can change you but that is a whole new can of worms. I know the discussion was supposed to be closed but I have had a lot of experience with Bi women.

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:26 am

Ghost wrote:

I have had a lot of experience with Bi women.

Show off

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:32 am

Edited: because that was supposed to be a secret

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:36 am

red wrote:

If a male comments on a female colleagues tan it is a compliment, not harassment... let's not go British P.C. Overdrive here.

It would be if that same male sat back in his chair in a pair of shorts and displayed his 'credentials' in true passive/aggressive style. It's all a matter of perception as you say. And this happened in America, and I am not British Laughing

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:52 am

it wasn't me wrote:

Show off

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:58 am

^^^ I know you're no longer British ( Laughing

) your opinion merely betrayed you.

If a woman is wearing some inappropriate, that's a different story.

But now we're telling women how to sit?

Come on, I had a boss who used to take his shirt off to show us how good his chest wax was (guess his cultural heritage). Now, naturally if someone had been offended and said "please don't do that, I find it offensive" it would have been inappropriate to do it again.

But he was just a larrikin and had no intention of intimidating or offending anyone. Inappropriate? 100% for sure. Sexual harassment right off the cuff? No court in the land would find in favour of that.

I think you'll find that of all cases that are brought before anti-discrimination boards the first question they will ask is "did you tell them you did not appreciate their behaviour".

If the answer is 'No' I would hazard a guess that the stock response would be "well, people are not mind readers, unless he was grabbing your arse and say 'please ma'am, may i have some more' you're really not in a position to claim harassment". Generally, warning has to be provided.

Have a look here: http://www.business.vic.gov.au/BUSVIC/STANDARD//pc=PC_50522.html

Example wrote:

Julie works as a sales assistant in Connie's hot bread shop. George does the hot bread deliveries and comes into the shop every day. Every time he sees Julie he asks her to go out with him or at least to 'stop hiding behind the counter and come out and be nice to me'. Julie keeps telling him she isn't interested and to leave her alone, but George persists.

It is the persistence that is sexual harassment.

Someone can only persist if they have been rebuked or it has not been addressed.

Seeing as Eliza has not addressed the issue, this lady may be blissfully unaware of how she is being perceived.

I find sexual harassment abhorrent, but I also know that there is a line, and it is not drawn at behaviour that could possibly be perceived to be a come on... or possibly just a friendly chat... or possibly just work.

As I said earlier, I have yet to read something that I think crosses this line. By all means something may have crossed the line, but to my eyes, Eliza hasn't posted it yet.

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:31 am

@red
We didn�t do this at work:D

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:34 am

@ Ghost - sorry mate, i was referring to gnasher and eliza's posts.

but your story rocks none-the-less! Wink

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:36 am

That's cool Cool

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:46 am

Ghost wrote:

We agreed to go to the Bi girl�s house with our friend. Get some drinks and see what happens. It was quit[e] fun Very Happy

For the record. I hate you. I really really hate you. Laughing

You lucky bastard.

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:52 am

^^^^Don�t hate me because I�m beautiful

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:56 am

I don't. I hate you cos you've had a 3way with two women. Laughing

I'm not even allowed to dream about such things... Sad

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:09 am

B.L.Z. Bubb wrote:

... 3way with two women...

One guy can have 3-way with 2 women?

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:16 am

I'm sorry, what?

Did I miss something?
1+2=3, yes?

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:50 pm

Can I go with you and pose as your boyfriend? Wait, that would be bad...
she'd know you prefer men but then she'd also think you have really low standards and awful taste.

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:36 pm

well - yeah - there are some details not posted.

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:40 pm

As a former civil servant employed in a HR branch, I would say that this does qualify as sexual harassment. It does not revolve around the actions so much but around the perceptions. If you feel and believe you are being discriminated against or harrassed then that must be addressed. Also, from what was said in posts above, you have made it clear that this behaviour is not welcomed.

Eliza, you are not as 'powerless' as you may think in this situation. Let's say you report this and your grades are kicked by this woman then that is victimisation. More sanctions against the perpetrator.

One of the worst things you can do is to think that you are stuck in a bad situation and there is no way out of it. Don't think that it is something that you must put up with. No one has to put up with it.

A number of possible solutions. You could ask for 'advice' about sexual harrassment within the student tutor environment. Are there any specialised counciling services available within the place you're in? They can be utilised.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 18 Jun 2007 Posts: 4

Eliza,

This is sexual harassment in the workplace - (as stated above) how would you feel if a male colleague did the same to you?

Are you a union member? I seem to recall that you are of the 'Merkin persuasion so probably aren't in a union as the land of the free doesn't like you to be free enough to stand up for your rights, unless its the right to shoot somebody. If you don't belong to a union (and if not, why not?), you should find a friendly (!) member of the human remains department at your company to talk to. I think this has escalated beyond the point where a quiet word would be appropriate.

Regards,
Cod

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:15 am

Cod, we don't do politics here, even by way of passing reference. The welcome PM you will have received has links to the guidelines. Please check them out. Smile

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:48 am

Record the behaviour covertly - video and/or audio - and talk to the ethics board.

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