This lad won't change format

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Not quite a Newb Joined: 28 May 2015 Posts: 57

A couple of introductory notes first. I did quite a few baits before this one but they all fizzled out around the 3-4 month mark. I was holding out on publishing till I earned my first sandtimer. I have yet to achieve that, and this bait has only been going for a fortnight, but it's already going in quite an interesting direction and I hope that the comments and suggestions I receive here might help me to extend this bait beyond the typical (for me) quarter of a year.

Do lads typically stick to one 'tried and true' format? As you'll see below, I've been trying to get this lad to switch to a different format, but so far he's stubbornly resisted that change. Is that because this particular lad is just too stupid to pick up on my not-so-subtle hints that I'd be much more susceptible to the format I'm trying to push him towards? Or do lad starter kits tend to come with the tools (fake IDs, template emails etc) for only one format which the lad then practices endlessly, meaning that switching format would involve expending time/resources (e.g. obtaining or writing emails which he doesn't have a template for) and operating outside his comfort zone? I ask partly out of curiosity, but also because if it's the former then trying to get a lad to switch format would just be a personal amusement/delaying tactic thing, but if the latter is the case then it could become a goal in itself.

The bait so far, my emails in blue, lad's in red:

Quote:

On 14/05:

Dear [Character],

This is [Lad] from the OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY in NIGERIA,I just called you and you picked up and later hag up the phone,I have not hear from you about you sending the fee to receive your funds as directed as you said you will be sending the $495 usd while I will raise the rest to get this done but till now I have not hear from you. A Man called and also emailed that his name is James [Character Surname] and that you send her to pay the fee and receive the funds and I said I have to contact you to hear from you if it is true or not as she said you where involved in a terrible accident and now been hospitalized and she said the doctor says you may die.

Get back to me please to let me know.

This was the first email I got from the lad. He skips the initial format and jumps straight to "If you don't hurry up and pay the fee, your money will go to someone else." I refer to this as the "Reverse Chop Gambit" (RCG) (or is there some other term which you already use on these forums which I should adopt instead?). The RCG normally comes in the middle of a bait, not till after at least 10 emails each way, so it's rather rude of the lad to make his first communication with me an RCG. I consider punishing his temerity by asking "What on earth are you talking about, man?" But I decide to try a different tack.

Quote:

On 16/05:

It is true I did been in accident. But I am recovering well now. Please I think I lost the phone number for this Mr James XXX can you send to me please?

I'm intentionally vague about the nature of my accident - I never said I actually went to hospital; for all this lad knows, my 'accident' was a stubbed toe or a paper cut - he never asks for details. I'm also vague about why I want to call this James character. If the lad had asked, I would have said that I want to confront this impostor myself - having the lad deal with James just wouldn't satisfy my need for what US Southerners would call 'satisfaction'. But the lad never asked, so I took a different direction.

Quote:

Dear [Character],

I got your email and it was well noted and thank God you replied back to me and we have emailed and told him not to contact us again as he is a liar and a thief and that you said you did not instruct him to pay the balance fee of the $495 usd and receive the $35 million,so what I want you to do now is to get back to me us and re-confirm your details for the delivery of your ATM CARD loaded with the $35 million.

So note that you are to go ahead and send the balance fee so that we can get this done for you to receive your funds with in 24 hours,get back to me so that I can forward to you the payment details OK.

Here is what I have on the funds,Let me know if it is corect OK.

[Character's Address etc]

I await you

I never gave this lad my personal info, and I got his initial email in my baiting account rather than my catcher. This, combined with his skipping the usual back-and-forth (which I find quite boring, TBH, which is partly why I didn't make a big deal about the lad skipping it), makes me wonder whether the lad got my email and details from one of my previous lads, either as part of an 'Old Jobs Swap' (there are massbaits on here which began as an OJS, implying that such exchanges are common among lads) or as some kind of attempt at a chop. :confused:

Quote:

On 17/05:

I want to know who is this James XXX. I never said he was a thief; I want to contact him myself to find out who he is and what is his involvement in this transaction. Why did you not give me his phone number? How you know he is thief when I did not say that he is thief?

All I was really planning to do at this stage was wait for the lad to offer up some feeble explanation as to how he found out that James was an impostor. I would then hold this against the lad at later stages should it prove convenient to me: "How do I know I can trust this lawyer you're introducing to me? You thought this James was honest and my rightful legitimate agent till it was nearly too late, so you're not the best judge of character, are you?" Perhaps this James might pop up as a chopper at some convenient point. However, the lad's reluctance to give me James's contact info and his failure to come up with any kind of explanation as to how the lad uncovered the truth about James leads me to take a different direction.

Quote:

On 18/05:

Dear [Character]
Good morning to you and here is my phone number

Note I will not like you to loose your funds as it is very important you send the balance fee of the $495 usd to get this done for you to receive your funds as we where directed by the PRESIDENCY OK.

So call me so that we can talk and also I will give you the payment details for you to send the fee to get this done.

Get back to me

I apologise in advance if this is against the forum rules and will redact it if it is, but I left the lad's (masked) phone number in case anyone wants to phone bait him. I don't do phone baits, so you can have at him if you're one of those baiters who likes doing phone baits but can't stand the emailing back-and-forth required to get the lad's number in the first place. Please let me know before you do it if you plan to bait in any way which might affect this bait though.

Quote:

I asked for JAMES's phone number, not yours!

Quote:

Dear [Character]

I got your email and note that we have reported Mr James to the AUTHORITIES and he his wated now and now his phone number has been disconnected or not in use but I will send it to you now : +1
<snipped as it may actually be an ITP and we won't take that chance - bware419ers

Note I do not want you to loose the funds has was why I contacted you to make sure.

I await to hear from you

I don't like phone baits, and this lad gives me an easy out by mentioning that the number might be disconnected, so I take it. NB: I didn't even try any of these numbers, so be aware that they might belong to ITPs.

Quote:

On 19/05:
If I cannot phone him because his phone has been disconnected, how about his email address?

I'm expecting the lad to come up with some excuse - maybe this Mr James is in prison for being a fraud star now so doesn't have internet access? But, to my pleasant surprise, the email address is easily forthcoming.

Quote:

On 21/05:
Dear [Character]
Good morning to you and sorry I did not reply to you as I was very busy with the Board of Directors in the meeting,and here is the email address of Mr James XXX: [Redacted]

I will like you to make sure you get back to me so that we can get this done for you to receive your funds with out any delay.

Given the ease with which I obtained that email after all the effort it took to get a (possibly) disconnected phone number, I guess this lad just hates doing phone scams as much as I hate doing phone baits. Suits me fine!

Quote:

I have sent an email to James. I will let you know if his replies.

Quote:

Note it is very important you send the fee and receive your funds OK.

I await you

This is where things start to get interesting. Since this post is already incredibly long, I'll break it up a bit by publishing the rest in a separate post below.

Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:30 pm

It will be interesting to see if "James" replies, since it will no doubt the the same lad.

As for whether or not lads change formats, it often depends on their experience level with scamming. If they are new to the game, they may be sticking to the one and only format they know. Or their oga wants them to stick to one format until they show they can get money from it.

A more experienced lad may be comfortable jumping to whichever format he thinks he can get a payout from. This is why folks like Birlic and Big X are so successful converting lads over to their church baits. Laughing

Not quite a Newb Joined: 28 May 2015 Posts: 57

Quote:

Or their oga wants them to stick to one format until they show they can get money from it.

So this conversation might happen:

Lad: Can I try a different format?
Oga: Did you make any money off the format I gave you yet?
Lad: No. That format you gave me just doesn't work. That's why I want to try a new one.
Oga: No new format for you till you've made at least £10K with the format you already have!
Lad: So if I make £10K with this format, then you'll give me another one?
Oga: Why would you want to switch formats when the one you've got is working so well? If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Laughing

I'm working on parsing out the rest of my emails with this lad. He DOES reply as James, which is what makes this bait so potentially interesting. For reference, when I (eventually) post them below, James (aka the lad emailing from a different address) will be in green, and my emails to James will be in DARK blue.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 28 May 2015 Posts: 57

Quote:

On 21/05:
Good afternoon. It may surprise you to hear from me after such a long time. You might not remember me; we have not seen each other since I was a child. It seems you've got yourself in rather a mess since then. What on earth have you been doing with yourself? Have you gone back to the drugs? You are an idiot if you have, but I will forgive you. You got off them before, you can do it again. So what has been going on in your life?

So this is where I start to gently nudge the lad into changing formats. I hint that Uncle James experiencing a catastrophic relapse would be believable, and that I would help him out of any sticky situation he found himself in - even if his woes are self-inflicted. I also emphasise that James is a long-lost uncle, so I'm unlikely to have any contact with him on Facebook or whatever which might expose the lad as an impostor. In other words, I'd be a complete sucker for the 'Grandparent' format (AKA the 'Family Emergency' Scam). The lad has already steered my character towards believing that my uncle is in prison, but if he wanted he could also have James turn up in hospital after an overdose. I'd fall for either of those scenarios hook, line and sinker. But the lad just won't bite. Sad

Quote:

On 22/05:
I receieved your email and I am thankful you write to me,I am doing good and will want to come and meet you,So what about the funds and the fees? my telephone is off and do not want it so let us always talk via my email OK.

It is very important you pay the fees and get the funds please.

need to hear from you

More evidence that this lad hates talking on the phone as much as I do. I'm half of a mind to post his number in the surplus section when I'm done with him; maybe those who like doing phone baits can reinforce this lad's aversion to phones. Twisted Evil

Quote:

My dear Uncle, I am very confused. Do you know who Mr. Ron is? He claims that you are in prison. Why would you be in prison? Did the police find drugs on you? What on earth have you done to yourself this time?

More prods towards a change in format. But this lad is either impervious to such subtle hints or bereft of the skill necessary to make such a switch.

Quote:

I received your email and do not be confused as Mr Ron has to deliver the funds to you,as I was told that the balance fee to get this done is $495 usd so discuss with him and get this done so that I can come over as I am not in prison,I am doing good.

So please contact him and get this done OK.

The lad writes himself out of not only prison, but hospital too (he's "Doing good" Rolling Eyes

), and all in a single sentence.

Quote:

On 23/05:
Are you still on the run from the police then? Mr Ron told me that there is a warrant out for your arrest. What have you done?

Now I've been neglecting to keep the lad's original character Ron in the loop up to now. I want to give the lad the impression that I really believe James is my uncle, albeit a long-lost one, and therefore trust him implicitly. Since Ron's been bad-mouthing my dear Uncle James, I have lost a lot of love for him and will give him rather short shrift, especially since he was so impatient. He only managed 2 measly days before he just had to send a "Where are you?" email.

Quote:

On 24/05:
I have not hear from you why?

Get back to me

Quote:

I have been in contact with James XXX, he denies being in prison or on the run from prison or anything like that. And if he is in prison like you said he is, how does he manage to email me? I do not know many prisons with internet access available to the prisoners! Anyway, I am trying to figure out what is up with this guy, I will let you know of any major developments.

I intentionally keep the info to a minimum here. I don't even let on that James is my long-lost uncle. I no longer trust Ron, so why would I divulge such personal information voluntarily?

Quote:

[Character] I am good and strong,I am not been arrested OK,So work with Ron to claim the funds by sending to him the fee so that the funds can be transferred to you OK.

Note make sure you let me know when you receive the funds as I will come to meet you OK.

Get back to me

Seems the lad isn't too keen on the idea of playing 2 characters either. He's trying to get me back on track with Ron so he can phase out this Uncle James (which I forced him to create in the first place Smile

). Who can blame him? Keeping 2 characters going is at least twice the work for a poor scammer, maybe even thrice the work if those characters' goals happen to clash with each other ... which is why there is no way I'm letting him off that easy! Twisted Evil

Quote:

But this Ron is calling you a thief, an imposter and a fraud star. He is claiming that you are wanted by the police. How can I do business with someone who insults my dear uncle so grievously?

Here I try to bring James and Ron into conflict. Either Ron has to admit that James is actually a good guy and come up with a very good reason as to why he's been slandering my good uncle's name, or James has to admit that he's been at the illicit substances again but was too ashamed to tell me. The lad goes with Door #1 - not that any of the doors in my baits ever lead anywhere the lad wants to go! Wink

Quote:

[Character] he never New we are related OK,so go ahead and work with him to receive the funds.

Contact him and send the fee of the $495 usd so that we can get the transaction concluded.

Hope to hear from you

Quote:

Dear [Character]

I got your email and note that I did not know he his your relative and
will work for you to receive your funds OK.

So what I want you to do is to send the balance fee of the $495 usd to
get this done for you to receive your funds OK.

Get back to me

This lad clearly has no experience with running 2 characters. He just can't keep straight which character is supposed to know what. Now, I know I ran the risk of educating the lad here, but felt that this risk was worth taking in order to give the lad a slap.

Quote:

If he never new we are related that makes all of his insult worse! A family member will now he is talking rubbish, but a stranger or member of the public would believe him. Why is he saying all of these bad things and damaging your reputation?

"Ron didn't know I was your Uncle"? What kind of lame-ass excuse is that?! I'm not having any of that rubbish!

Quote:

On 25/05:
Who told you he is my Uncle? I never told you that! Have you harked my email account?

I balance out the possible education with a little de-education; the following emails make it seem like this de-education stuck and the potential education didn't, so I guess my gamble paid off. Smile

Quote:

On 26/05:
I did not hark your email account OK.

Note it is very important to send the fee to get this done.

Get back to me

Quote:

[Character] I told him we are related,so go ahead and work with him to receive the funds OK.

I do not want us to delay about this [Character].

I await you

See what I mean about the lad being constitutionally incapable of running 2 simultaneous characters? As soon as I ask Ron how he knows James is my uncle, James confesses to passing this information along. So Ron has gone from being James's libeller to confidante. Now I want to know just how long these two have been in cahoots, and why Ron was bad-mouthing James to all and sundry but a week ago.

Quote:

On 29/05:
So you are in contact with this Ron? How do you know him? And if you are working with each other, why is he telling me so many bad things about you?

I'll see how the lad responds, but I have a feeling we're going to go round and round in circles till one of us gets fed up.

Me: Why did you talk smack about my uncle?
Ron: I didn't know he was your uncle!
James: Ron didn't know I'm your uncle. Just send him the money, OK?

I need to come up with some ideas on how to get out of this loop the lad's stuck in. Anyway, that's the bait so far. I'll post more as it progresses.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:18 am

He does seem kind of dumb. Maybe ask him for a picture to know who you are dealing with. You can set it up by telling your 'uncle' what you are going to do, so it adds legitimacy to the request. Some of these guys will not move off the initial asking price, for some reason. At least you are keeping him occupied.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:50 pm

There won't be any pictures, like there won't be any phone calls, because the lad can't be Uncle James.

This format is meant to work based on your greed. Your character tries to take money that is not theirs before someone else gets it. Now, you've messed that up for the lad by having a real uncle with this name. The lad needs to stick with his story, so instead of switching formats, think of how you just evolve the story.

Put yourself in the lad's place. Think of the lad as a baiter and your characters as lads. What would you do then? What would happen if you started getting communications from the "real" Uncle Ron? What if Uncle Ron was rich but you needed the combo to his safe? What if you copied Uncle Ron and the Lad on every single email? What if you plotted with Uncle Ron?

Not quite a Newb Joined: 28 May 2015 Posts: 57

^^^

Putting the above two ideas together, I could introduce a chopper in the usual way ("I am the lad's Claims Fees Manager ... " or whatever). When the lad panics and tells me to cease all contact with this untrustworthy harker thief, the chopper will tell me that Ron is the REAL thief scammer ("Our organisation just recently discover that our former employee Mr Ron has been conducting company fraud on a massive unpresidented scale and he has been terminated with immediate affect"). James, of course, will tell me to trust Ron and ignore the chopper, but hey - Ron fooled me for a while, what's to say my drug-addled uncle hasn't had the wool pulled over his eyes too? I'll suggest to James that I ask both the 'Rons' for a picture to prove they are the real deal.

James will protest that he knows which one is the real Ron, so no need for photos. The chopper will then suggest that Fake Ron has hacked James's email and at the same time send something like the following to the lad:

"I have photoshop skillz which smallboi like you can only dream of. You can't do nothing to stop me ur mugu will be MINE!" My character will send a couple of "That guy sent photos so I know he's real" emails to the lad. While the lad's sweating about this chopper, he gets an initial script reply from a certain James XXX ...

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