Did I just win or fall for subtle scam?

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 12 May 2017 Posts: 4

OK, so I had no idea this site existed; otherwise would have asked this first. Anyway...
Have a business and had one of those scams where they want to book in 20 people. The usual way it pans out is that they want to pay upfront with credit card and then when you pay they ask for 50% of the money transferred back or something like that. Stolen credit card, money auto retrieved etc etc.
Don't worry, didn't fall for that. Instead I decided to have a bit of fun and see how far I could take this considering that the only bit of info they had, or would get, was the company contact and person responsible. (easily found out online or through a Portugal business search)
In a nutshell they wanted a letter of invitation to Portugal for...visa reasons... and I said that it need a €30 notary fee. They wanted to transfer the money to something something bank details; but I said not possible as was restricting the flow of information. I suggested they western union it to me and for some reason they agreed.
This is where things got confusing for me... instead of the €30 sent to me by WU, they sent €100. I got an email claiming that this was by accident and asking me to send back the excess €70 (again by WU).
I haven't done that as yet, but wandered over to the local WU which was more than happy to issue me with the €100.
So now I have that cash sitting in front of me and I am thinking that this was way too easy and wondering if there is a more subtle play in motion...
...anyone?

*update...just read community rules and saw about not scamming the scammer for cash. Didn't know that this was against the rules until it was too late...

Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:02 pm

Congratulations, you've very likely just stolen €100 from an innocent scam victim - scammers never send people their own money.

You've also opened up your business to retribution from a bunch of criminals.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 12 May 2017 Posts: 4

How can an innocent scam victim western union cash from one place to another without knowing whats going on? I thought that to send cash through western union you had to go into a branch and give them the cash that you want to send.
According to the receipt, the sender sent the cash from the WU desk in Lagos, Nigeria.

Also, what kind of retribution are we talking here?

Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:09 pm

Could always say WU has stopped payment as it has come from a known place and it is of a dubious nature.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 12 May 2017 Posts: 4

I already withdrew it... this was all done and dusted before I signed up for this site. I just went there to see if the MTCN number was real and then they just kind of gave me the money.
Escalated kind of fast as I didn't actually expect them to send anything. Now it's all weirded me out a little...

Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:32 pm

Welcome to Eater Surely. Innocent scam victims easily send money with or without the knowledge of WU (I won't comment on their settlement with the US government.) WU simply takes some information and transfers the money. Rarely will they delve into why it's being sent, is it a scam, etc. Frankly, it would be easy to say, "It's private business and none of yours..."

Western Union may also be sent online (and collected from there) without ever leaving the comfort of your (or a lad's) chair.

Quote:

Also, what kind of retribution are we talking here?

That really depends on how pissed off they get. They might spam your company, pass the info on to spear phishers, send a lad (unlikely, but it's said to have happened), or maybe they do something like this.

Regardless, you have now taken money from a scammer under false pretenses, which is probably illegal where you are. I'm not an attorney and I wouldn't trust any of the barristers on this site, but you should seek some advice on the matter, in my opinion.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 12 May 2017 Posts: 4

Thanks bware419ers...
I don't like the thought that this money could have been sent by an innocent 3rd party. I didn't even expect it to be sent in the first place as I was just bored and ran with the fake email to see what happened.

Could it be possible that it was a scammer who sent the cash from an actual WU desk as stated on the money receipt? If it is from an innocent person, is there any way I can make the money find its way back to them?

Should have googled a bit more specifically and found out about this site first.
I think legally I will be OK due to how things are in this area of the world, but you're right; I shall check.

Thank you for the heads up on the potential ramifications too. Hopefully it won't be anything I can't handle.

Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:05 pm

Welcome to eater. Don't beat yourself up over things you didn't know before hand. What's important is that you know now, and can also be vigilant against any possible blow back.

Please take some time and read through the stickies (top posts in Hints & Tips and the main forum) to see some good information and best-practices in dealing with scammers. One of the most important of which is to "bait safely", meaning you use none of your personal or business details. Use a fake name, fake email, etc.

Quote:

This is where things got confusing for me... instead of the €30 sent to me by WU, they sent €100. I got an email claiming that this was by accident and asking me to send back the excess €70 (again by WU).

They likely wanted to launder the money for some reason. Usually in these cases the receiver who then forwards part of the funds is a money mule or some other third party who may or may not have been told the truth about where the money is going.

Why go to all of the trouble of having another victim send you money only to have you send part back? Because with you in the chain, you have removed any financial link between the scammer and the third party. Also, if the third party were to say the money was sent under false pretenses (like if they did a bank transfer), you might be responsible for paying back the whole 100, even-though you had sent back 70.

Here's a quick write up about moneymules (which you would have been if you had chosen to forward on the money): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_mule

Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:39 pm

What has been said here is correct. You may be dealing with a mule. Best to walk away from this and maybe talk with the police.

As Padme said, do not beat your self up over this. Shit happens and you are here to do the right thing.

Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:38 am

You were sort of a victim. If you got the $100 from them by doing what your business normally would, the safe thigg to do now is let local leo now and turn over the cash. And dont get in that situation again. DO NOT spend the money or do anything else except give the cash annd the emails to leo. I am not sure what the scammer thought would happen but it sounds like he was baiting the hook for a mule.. aka you. Check out scamwarners.com after you turn the cash over to protect yourself. Then check out the stickies and learn about mule scams, and how to bait safely. In the course of my charity work irl i often have to exchange 3 or 4 emails to know for sure if it is legit or a lad. But as soon as u know it is a lad drop it from rl emails. U can always asem from a baiter account.

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