Need some help in the form of a mass bait

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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:42 pm

As some of you know I have a friend that fell victim of a romance scam which is what led me to this wonderful resource. Well despite all of the interventions, the smacks in the back of the head, the verbal beat downs, etc...he STILL thinks at least part of it is real. You see the "scammers" are also scamming his "love interest" and stealing from her.

Now thankfully he has no real money so he is in no danger of losing anything of significance. And not to be cold but he is in his late 70s and has heart issues so his time on this earth is likely nearing the end.

The problem now is that they are using him as a mule. The are still stringing him along on these "trunk boxes" he believes the boxes are real, but the "shipping company" is "scamming her" and all they want is more money.

Well he is partly right of course Smile

So they are using him as a mule, I know of three transactions where he has gotten money and sent it to "the receptionist at the hotel she is staying at in nigeria"... they have so far been small sums of money, initial payments obviously......but I see where this is going and I am sure you all do to.

Most of the communication with "her" is via text (I have the number) and I also have her email, the photos she uses and the emails for the "Custodian Manager".... at the "shipping company".....

And of course my friend's pertinent info as well.

All of this has been sent over to scamwarners and other scamming resources. Trying to take it a step further.

I have tried to open a dialogue with them and have gotten nowhere...

Anyone up for a mass bait

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:07 pm

Firstly, I understand your concern, and that you want to 'do' something about this, and that you want to both distract and 'pay back' the scammer/s. But....

Your friend, by acting as a mule, is now on the wrong side of the law, passing on scammed and stolen money. When the scammer disappears, as they will one day, the only 'thief' who will be apparent (should the paying victims report this) will be your friend. This may well result in an investigation into him - and even an arrest, leading to imprisonment.

This is an awful situation, and one that he needs to be aware of.

I like mass baits and, of course, I totally focus on distracting scammers from real victims. But this situation is something that I have reservations about. It feels a bit too 'close to home' due to your personal connection to a victim and mule. And I wouldn't want to be given your friend's details to make my payment to ... that would put me in a very awkward position, realising that this was a victim, not a knowing accomplice.

Most importantly, your friend needs to be warned of the possible consequences of his actions. If there is any possibilty that he may listen to somone else with knowledge about this, then please do PM a Mod either here or on ScamWarners about this, and they will do their best to help.

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:13 pm

Hi sportbluecanyon,

You have a kind heart, but please do not forward anything about your friend's information in relation to a mass bait. Not sure if I was reading that correctly, but we need to protect your friend.

We have a forum here where you can post the opening email and anyone can pick that up and start baiting. Would you feel comfortable posting the scammer's initial email and information there? I can't recall if you need to be a premium member to see this or not:

https://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=18

although I think all you have to do is log in to see it. I would post the information here. Quite a few of us grab those scripts and bait from there!

If you post the information there along with a note that you're also interested in baiting (but only if you can do so without a lot of emotional entanglement - sounds like you might want to let others take this on first? Speaking from experience...) you might get some action there as well.

I know SW can sometimes seem as if they don't respond, but they do take every post into consideration and they really do try to help out. Hopefully your friend can have an intervention.

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:44 am

Thank you both and I appreciate both your concerns. I have the same concerns. Have even discussed it with local police AND the Moneygram folks he is frequenting. NO ONE seems to want to help this man.

Truth be told maybe a night in the pokey wakes him up.

I guess my hope was two fold...

1) to waste the scammers time so maybe the forget about my friend..

2) and I just thought about it here...if he was to come up as the payee on a mass bait....then I would have something to show him that he is being played.

I really don't know what more to do for him.

There was no introductory email. This one started a text pop up....."she" starts the communication via text sends some pictures and goes from there....

I really don't know what else to do for this man.

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:49 am

Sport, I would still post the email information in surplus. I do think it's a good idea to get some baiters on this, but revealing to your friend that other people are seeing the same messages might backfire and let the lad know he's being baited. We don't "burn" our lads that way - we don't want them to catch on to what we're up to Wink

You can also post the emails in this thread. Just take out any personal info that could possibly lead to your friend.

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:56 am

Removed unnecessary quote of previous post - bware419ers

Yeah that is the second problem. The scammer knowing they are being baited. This one really has me torn.

Thanks for the advice and concern

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:31 am

You have received great advice from Branwen and Kitty. A mass bait is not the way to go. It's more likely to create a divide and disillusion your friend even more. ScamWarners is a great resource and they are in a greater position to advise a victim. A search of "romance scams" will provide many places where help can be found.

The key is education, though. Your friend will need to see they are a victim and that is very difficult with a romance scam. Share these articles and help them to see the pattern in their interactions compared to these stories.

http://boingboing.net/2015/10/05/how-a-romance-scam-victim-laun.html
https://www.grahamcluley.com/argentinian-prison-romance-scam/
http://wivb.com/investigative-story/local-woman-loses-50k-in-online-romance-scam/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/78047245/Wellington-woman-caught-up-in-online-romance-scam-loses-fortune
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34942874
https://www.wired.com/2015/10/online-dating-made-woman-pawn-global-crime-plot/
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/florida-keys/article115332433.html
http://fox59.com/2016/06/27/hoosier-busted-in-widespread-scam-with-ties-to-nigeria/
http://www.wkyt.com/content/news/WKYT-scam-week-romance-scam-takes-387852912.html

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:03 am

I appreciate all that. And yes I have gotten very good advice. I think something is being missed here though.

I have turned him onto scamwarners.
He has seen many of those resources you kindly provided.
I and one other friend have explained this all to him ad nauseum

The problem we have here is that HE thinks SHE is real...and is a "fellow victim"...he does not believe "she" is integral to and one of the scammers....

He thinks the "shipping company" is scamming "her" too.....

See my dilemma? He understands this is a scam....but he thinks she is being scammed too...which is why he is willing to accept funds from her "customers" (she is allegedly a jeweler) and send them to Nigeria because he believes "she" does not want her customers to know she is out of the country.

This is absurd. I know it makes no sense.

I have gotten fantastic advise here.
My friend knows he has been scammed. But he honestly believes "she" is also being scammed.

I thought a mass bait might get them to forget about my friend as they move onto bigger and better things.

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:42 am

They are unlikely to forget about him as; by laundering money for them; he is a very valuable asset for them.

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:59 am

B8er wrote:

They are unlikely to forget about him as; by laundering money for them; he is a very valuable asset for them.

Even if it is the little stuff? Initial contacts?

And how the hell can I get through to him. That is the bigger issue.

Baiting Guru Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 5727

^^ It may be little now, but I guarantee you it will get bigger. Once these bastards get someone on the hook they milk them for everything. You mentioned that you have told the police and they have done nothing. I would keep trying and see if they can do something to warn him. Have you tried contacting the Sheriff directly?

Unfortunately these victims can sometimes get so far down the rabbit hole that you can't get them out, despite your best efforts.

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 18 Oct 2012 Posts: 611

I'm wondering if it's possible to show him the truth by romance baiting the lad…perhaps if your friend sees how quickly his belle is willing to flirt with others, it might make him wake up. Any mods here want to weigh in on that? The goal wouldn't be to get a piggy…the goal would be to show that this so-called girlfriend will do anything to get money.

A mass romance bait actually might prove useful. But still…mods?

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:35 am

No.

See Branwen's post above. In no way would that help the victim and what happens when the baiters are given the friend's banking details?

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 18 Oct 2012 Posts: 611

Gotcha. I read it a few times…sometimes things don't sink in right away. Thanks Bware!

sportbluecanyon, I wish you and your friend the best. Sad

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:54 am

Well just a bit of an update....

My PLEAS for help for this man have had little effect. I have copies of well over 10,000 of receipts for money transfers...he is a mule...and a big one.
He is convinced it is a scam...but still thinks "she" is real, and is also being scammed, and is not one of the scammers. And he is holding out hope that the boxes MIGHT be real and arrive someday if he continues to "help" her.

Local county and state law enforcement say nothing they can do. FBI referrs me to IC3.GOV despite explaining to an agent this is an ACTIVE transaction happening. He has talked to US Customs agents and even Homeland Security who have told him there are no boxes and he is being scammed.

I have reached out to all the investigative reporters in Chicago and one is possibly going to do a story....from the "how do you get help" angle....

The only "Agency" that actually took it seriously and went over to try to talk some sense into him was the US Postal Inspectors....and even the impact of that was short lived.

The money he is receiving and sending to Nigeria (to the same two people)....he believes it is legitimate. "She" is telling him her customers (she is allegedly a jeweler) owe her money and she does not want them to know she is out of the country so she is having them send the funds to her "fiance"....

I have all but turned my back on him. My concern is now for the innocent victims that are being scammed and being told by these scammers to send their "payments" to their "agent in illinois" for processing.

I wish there was somewhere else I could turn or more that I could do. It is so very frustrating.....

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:10 am

Branwen wrote:

Most importantly, your friend needs to be warned of the possible consequences of his actions. If there is any possibilty that he may listen to somone else with knowledge about this, then please do PM a Mod either here or on ScamWarners about this, and they will do their best to help.

Did you do this?

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:20 am

yes

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:42 pm

I suggest a PM directly to one of the Mods at ScamWarners. Immediately.

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:35 pm

I feel for you. My wife's friend fell head over heels in love with Sgt Parker who is a very good looking soldier in Afghanistan. He texted her day and night. He really worked her. My wife went out to dinner with her and she was raving about him. My wife said "Have you ever talked to him?" No. Not in 4 months. Just texts. My wife said my husband knows a lot about this and had me call her.

I told her it was a scam and that he is not indeed Sgt Parker and he is not who is in the pictures. He is not a lonely US soldier. She would NOT believe me. Sure enough he told her that he needed funds for the commissary via Western Union. That's when I had to step things up. She was about to send $1,300 via Western Union. I sent her the links to scam warners and this site etc. Finally I told her to just wait a few days.

I figured all I could do was to reach out to him as a fake female character and he sent me the same texts he had sent her. I played him for a few days then showed her all of the texts. I also got him to call me and he definitely wasn't the guy in the pictures - I recorded the calls so he could hear his voice.

She FINALLY acknowledged she had been played but is still really depressed. This 43 y.o. woman had found the man of her dreams. I've never been around an actual victim and it drives me to try to find more time to bait. She was a wreck for a while.

It's sad but I think the only solution when they are in so deep is to show them that they will shower their "love" on anyone. Once she saw all the texts he sent to me she was upset, mad, felt stupid etc but fortunately never sent the money.

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:57 pm

In all honesty, I think that when victims start realizing that they were being scammed all along, it hurts their sense of pride so badly that they subconsciously prefer to turn a blind eye and become somewhat delusional. It is easier to continue to pretend that the person you are corresponding with genuinely likes you than to admit to yourself (and to others) that you were gullible enough to be scammed of 1000s of dollars. As a romance scam victim, you are not only cheated of your money but also of your heart... double whammy.

Oftentimes, these victims have personal issues such as feeling very isolated, having lost their girlfriend/boyfriend recently, being very depressed, etc. They hold onto every nice word that their scamming email buddy writes to them. It is very frustrating to try and get through to these victims, and the farther along they have gone into the scam, the harder it becomes to snap them back into reality. I think these victims need psychiatry/psychology help at this point. Victims of romance scam are amongst the most difficult to get back to the real world, and that's probably why they often seem to make the best money mules Sad

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:46 pm

Yeah
And there is only so much that even the mods here can do. The problem is when you walk into law enforcement and BEG them to help you help your friend....and it falls on deaf ears....when you call the manager of the moneygram that you know he is using----and you tell them what is going on-----and they don't follow procedures they have when they see a pattern .....that is a problem.

it is all too frustrating.

But we can only do what we can do.

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:30 am

Perhaps we can't unfuck the world, but it'd be pretty unkewl if we sat on our arses and watched things like this go down.

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:18 am

exactly...

with regard to the situation with my friend...he was given a reality check and the one of the investigative reporters is working on a story from the angle of "where does one turn for help once they are being scammed and realize it"

and that is one of the reasons this forum and community exists. Every scammer we inconvenience there are two more. Every fake website we get shut down one pops back up. Every mule we save they find another . Every bank account we get shut down is replaced. Does not mean we are not making a difference (and having a little fun along the way)....

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:02 am

Would your friend realise what he was involved in if his bank details appeared on scamwarners indicating that he was a money mule? Or those of the people in Nigeria that he is sending the money to?

Bware suggested that you PM one of the moderators at SW. That is probably your best bet at getting the truth to sink in.

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