How should I handle this dollar chop?

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Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:53 am

I've got this lad going on four baits, but all are a bit quite. But I deceided to play a dollar chop on two of them.

I deceided to make him believe that £85,000 (GBP) had been transfered to a person with a real Nigerian name. She happens to be someone a friend worked with, who was convicted of fraud in the UK. (She got off pretty lightly really, at a 6 months suspended sentance for stealing £95,000 from the National Health Service). Anyway, should he happen to Google her name, he will find she is a Nigerian convicted of fraud, so he should not be too surprised if she tries to scam him!

Anyway, on two baits, he is led to believe someone of her name is trying to steal his money.

1) In the first bait, £85,000 for an Agilent vector network analyzer, he was told the £85,000 had been transfered to her account. So in this bait he has lost his money.

He replied fairly quickly but seem to be confused what had happened, but then replied again 12 minutes later with

stop the transactions because i don't know this person MojXXXisola MadaXXXndola

2) In the second bait, which has actually been going on a lot longer, I've managed to get him spend a lot of money on phone calls, but the bait seems to be dying, as he has not replied for a long time. But in this bait he needs to get a code to release the money. So I deceided to send a mail saying that if he wants the money put into the acccount of MojXXXisola MadaXXXndola he will need to get a code. He had not replied to this. Perhaps the fact the transaction is only 5% of the value of the other one, and the money has actually gone from there, that this low-value transaction where the money had not gone, is not such a concerns to him.

So in essence, it would appear two of his scams have requested money is transfered to MojXXXisola MadaXXXndola, but only in one case has this actually happened.

Any thoughts on how to proceed? I do have other baits going with him. I could do things on those too.

wasname

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:12 pm

You can not use another person's real identity in the course of your bait - convicted fraudster or not.

I'd be pretty sure that if LE got involved, it's you they would come looking for.

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:09 pm

^^^
I would not generally do it, but in this case I don't see the person is an innocent third party. I'm using the name of one scammer and sending that to another scammer. In any case, I've not given the scammer any information such as an email address, home address, or any other personal information about the other scammer - just a name.

How many baiters give one scammer the phone number of another scammer, so they waste each others time? I don't see much difference to be honest.

wasname.

Trophy Videos · Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:21 pm

I believe that you should drop your baits immediately.
As SOOI says, there is a difference. You cannot drag this innocent third party into your bait. They have paid or are paying for a previous crime, but that does not mean that you can abuse them in your bait.

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:15 am

wasname wrote:

^^^
I would not generally do it, but in this case I don't see the person is an innocent third party.

I'm afraid that it doesn't matter how you see the person.

She's done her time and her conviction is spent and in the eyes of the law, she is now an innocent.

As I said: if someone were to wrongly report her to LE for scamming and they come across your emails, you would be the one they would come looking for.

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:29 am

This does raise the question of how to pick names for bait characters. One can be pretty certain that whatever name you pick, there will be more than one person with that name. Unless the scammer has other information such as a postal address, phone number or email address, he would have no idea what person this is. I had not given any such information.

I once used the name "Carmen Mudwisp" in a bait, which is an anagram of "windup scammer". My mentor said to me that was not a very good choice, since a Google of that name would find zero hits, so would be suspicious.

My own forname is very common here in the UK, but my surname is very rare, and most people have never heard of it, and spell it incorrectly. But a Google of my name gives 16.5 million hits, only a small percentage of which have anything to do with me. To be honest, if I gave my real name to a scammer, it would not be a threat as there are so many of us.

Let's say I pick a very common forename in this country (John), and pick a very common surname (Smith). A google of John Smith gives 779 million hits, so is every John Smith an ITP if I use such a name? How does that differ from using the name of a Nigerian faudster, when there are likely to be many of that name? Of course, had I given an address, that would have changed things considerably.

David Beckham and his wife Victoria are both pretty famous in their own right

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Beckham
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Beckham

So if I pick the name David Beckham, would that make the footballer an ITP, given there are likely to be number of David Beckhams in the world? It's hard to know how many David or Victoria Beckhams there are in this world, but a google of some common forenames with Beckham gives

* Fred Beckham - 13.6 million hits.
* Peter Beckham - 35.7 million hits.
* Tracy Beckham - 15.7 million hits.

This rather suggests there are a lot of David Beckhams' too.

So when does a name, without any other personal information, become an ITP?

All I had done was chosen a Nigerian name. Both her surname and forename are quite common. There are 393,000 Google hits on her forename, and 4,930 hits on her surname. Picking both her surname and forname, there are 143 hits, and using some words that will remove the news stories about her, still leaves 97 hits.

Despite the population of the UK is only half that of Nigeria, I suspect far more people have web sites here than have them in Nigeria. As such, I believe both her forname and surname and common, and without other information, this name will mean nothing to him.

My reason for picking the name was not because I wanted him to find her, but I suspect he will think the name is Nigerian, and so more likely to believe it is a scammer doiing a dollar chop. Had I wanted him to find her, I would have given other information.

wasname.

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:57 am

You make a good point that IMHO is open to debate but I think the difference between the examples you give and the point others are making is that you have chosen someone specifically because their details appear on google. Therefore if this scammer wanted to track "you" down he may well find this other person and as they 'work' in the same circles, possibly could even be hunted down.

On the other hand, if you pick a Mister Smith or even a Beckham and a lad wants to track you down, where the heck would he start?

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:12 pm

wasname wrote:

My reason for picking the name was not because I wanted him to find her, but I suspect he will think the name is Nigerian, and so more likely to believe it is a scammer doiing a dollar chop.

Please don't bother trying to bullshit me.

Your reason for picking that name was because you knew that there was a Nigerian female who had been convicted for fraud and you intended the lad to think that she was involved in your bait. If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't have used the name of a convicted felon who, by your own admission, is easily found on Google. You could have used any name at all. But you didn't, did you?

As for the pedantic shit you've posted regarding "John Smith", you can give that up as well. It doesn't work as a get-out.
You are using a specific ITP in your bait. That is something we don't do and it's not up for argument or debate.

Locked.

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