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 Debate About Sending Fake IDs

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Nailgunner
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The point's probably been made very well already, but just to add my bit: there are plenty of people out there who aren't particularly well educated, and may not be particularly clever. A picture of Telly Savalas might fly right over the head of the smartest 18 year old if he's never seen an episode of Kojak. Any gap in knowledge or experience creates a vulnerability, and given the shotgun approach of 419 mailing, there must be a success rate of some sort from even the most ridiculous passport. Someone with learning difficulties or just very limited experience (small village, insular lifestyle, etc) will have an even harder time sorting the ham from the spam. Why should their wellbeing be worth any less than that of someone without such disadvantages? In short, I woudn't send anything to a lad, even if another lad had sent it to me. Apart from the re-use issue, if passport photos are tradeable assets among lads, i don't want to be giving him anything he could use to feed his useless hide for so much as a second.

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Taj Mahal
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Smile any one of mrsbean's solutions work, with more fun than a bad fake ID.

AND eliminates ALL chance of your phony ID being used against a real victim, instead of just SOME of the chance of a bad phony being used.

plus you get to drag out the ID request as long as possible. The scammer will eventually get tired of it and either move on or drop you. (more likely to move on)

and yes a scammer can google a fake ID but at least it's not YOU providing them with scamming tools. YOU get to keep your hands clean.

Some of the crap they do manage to google or photoshop is worse than the crappiest silliest fake ID I would consider sending. but they keep using them so it must be effective on some victims. You really can't make an ID both believable to a scammer and stupid enough to be unusable to a victim.

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Slightlyoutofit
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

BillBurbs wrote:
isn't the chance that my silly one will warn real potential victims better than them using a much better one that anyone can find with a .5 second Google Image Search?


The difference is that you're creating something unique. Like you said, a .5 second search on Google can find an ID and that means that, for a victim, a .5 second search will unearth that it's a scam.
If you create something new, it's not going to hit the search engines and no matter that it's ridiculous, there's a chance that someone will fall for it - especially, as Juan says, taking into account culture gaps.

Which is better? You supply a lad with an ID and a victim falls for it? Or the lad Googles an ID and a victim falls for it?
To me, they're one and the same but I know that if I were responsible for just one victim losing their money to a scammer, it would outweigh saving a thousand others.
There are always going to be victims but I sure wouldn't want to be responsible for creating another one.

Experience tells us that we don't give the lad anything that he can use in a scam. And as an ID isn't even needed to bait with, why take the risk in the first place?

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:20 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Bait It Up wrote:
How is a ridiculous fake ID much different than a ridiculous fake opening script that some lads have been de-educated into using? It seems that providing the lads with ridiculous scripts is encouraged on 419eater, but couldn't you also argue that the "ridiculous" script might actually fool somebody else and contribute to a scam?

Personally, it seems to me that a ridiculous script would cause most people to realize something wasn't right in the proposal they received, much like receiving a ridiculous ID from a lad would tip off most people that something wasn't right.


As somebody who has dealt with over 1,000 scam victims mainly through Scamwarners, I can tell you that I have never seen anybody who had been scammed with a script supplied by a baiter, I have however seen a fair number who had been supplied fake IDs that were quite obviously (to me) fake, and a few of those that were obviously supplied to the scammer by baiters.

Keep in mind that baiters often seed scammers with fake scripts and seldom use fake IDs

That is not to say that I will not one day find somebody who had been scammed by a baiter supplied script but I feel the chances of that are acceptably low and that such a person would have also fallen for any script the scammer was to use.

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irishemigrant
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:19 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I have great success with my Singer Sewing Machine Course Certificate, thanks to Marvinator, no photo on it, and it is totally useless.

Tommo? used a Bicycle Proficiency Certificate, I can never remember who sorry.

Think laterally, ID can be anything, but as everyone has said, don't send anything that can, could and will be used by the lad.

I've send a scan of an envelope with my baiters name and address on, as pointed out above, all they want to know is that you are real. Which happened because I sent my Homeland Security warning jpg first, then we decided that an envelope with my details on would be as good.

And above all else, never work harder than the lad,

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

A point of order, the universe of baiting is extremely diversified. Eater and warners are just a part of it, as Murry Guru pointed out he gets a lot of ID orginated by baiters. So a mugu litmus test of asking for an ID is gives no protection from baiters.

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Simba
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

irishemigrant wrote:
I have great success with my Singer Sewing Machine Course Certificate, thanks to Marvinator, no photo on it, and it is totally useless.

Tommo? used a Bicycle Proficiency Certificate, I can never remember who sorry.


There is a debate...? Seriously...?

Juan's paste of MrsBean's well articulated reasoning tells you all you really need to know on this matter.
Put simply, we don't want to do anything that might assist a mugu in his future scams.

To be honest, there is also a lack of baiter creativity in sending a fake ID.

Part of the beauty of baiting is having the skill and imagination that can bamboozle a mugu. Irish gives a couple of fine examples above.

Myself, I had a scan of the back of my library card.
In reality, it was nothing more than a bogus barcode with my silly baiter name above it, but it kept laddie boy happy, and I was comfortable in the knowledge that he would not be able to use that to scam anyone else.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I remember some one used a crayon and drew a picture of them self and sent that as an ID.

For me the idea is getting the lad to waste his time with you and getting him off script so he spends more time on you than scamming others.

Baiting is not about complying with lads' requests or demands. Baiting is about twisting the mind of the lad in as many ways as possible...

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

What I always keep in mind is that there are people out there who are hard focused on the money to be gained. They easily oversee the errors in passports from lads. In real life I've also seen some real passports which look really, really ridiculous from my point of view. To the real owners, they thought that my passport was actually boring. Different perspectives from different persons.

Personally, all my lads receive either passport.jpg or a 16mb .dll file which was renamed to passport.jpg. None of them have complained and all continued with the next part of the script. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing I fooled the scammer and knowing that they cannot abuse my stuff against real victims.

Also, nice article from mrsbean. Tagged it in my baiterkit Smile

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Uh I still don't agree with sending them scripts to use. I've heard them called "silly" seeded scripts. But wait, didn't someone here post
don't give the scammers any ammo ? or don't work harder than a lad ?
maybe this is off-script of ID discussion and should have it's own post and possibly a poll for votes.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mortal wrote:
Keep in mind that picture of Telly savalas has proven to be working at all. Laughing


A Sophie Monk picture worked once...

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

There are some great passport scans/photos here:

http://www.freewebs.com/obiwanknievel/passportsids.htm

forgoing the need to do any work yourself.

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Brainiac
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:31 am Reply with quoteBack to top

@ Bait it up, the rules have been relaxed. Just go to Obi-Wan's beer fridge

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Reading this thread made me think and rethink my own attitudes about what is legitimate.
Then the ASEM gave me this little gem 1/2 hour ago:

Image

It would have fooled me before joining here.
Maybe the man is Togo´s most famous stand-up comedian or Benin´s Minister of the Interior- how would I (potential vic) know?


Remember the frenchwoman who was scammed out 80,000 euros by a lad using the photo of a Dutch (correect me if I´m wrong) minister?
It´s a tricky subject.
Fortunately, it doesn´t affect me as I lack the skills to make up an ID, but I´d really hate to find a speciman of my handiwork had fooled a vic.

I had qualms about ASEM baiting, until I realised that in the three months I´ve done it, only one person has replied saying they think I´m the vic of a scam and to take the matter to the police.
One.

And the number of bites is astonishing, especially from the church scammers Cool
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Brainiac wrote:
@ Bait it up, the rules have been relaxed. Just go to Obi-Wan's beer fridge


No, the forum guidelines are exactly the same. Any of those images fit with the intent of the guidelines; they're of no value to convince a victim that the scammer is legitimate.

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