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 No Congestion Charge for Manchester, England

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Mr_Happy
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Joined: 30 Jul 2008
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Location: Manchester UK


PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It was a bobbins idea from the start and the voters voted accordingly
Not one of the 10 zones voted yes, The highest percent voting yes was in Manchester with just 28%.

I'll be going out and getting drunk tonight!
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mikmik
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Victory for the little guy!

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Roycropper
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mr_Happy wrote:
I'll be going out and getting drunk tonight!


Me too - er, we were going to do that anyway weren't we?

It was a really pants idea, how does a tradesman take a concrete mixer on the bus? Places like Denton were cut in half by the zone.

I heard a phone in on the C Charge on the radio, there wasn't ONE call or text in support. At times like that they should recognise we're not having it, and stop wasting their breath and money.

At least the debate became apolitical, with MP's from both sides jumping ship with their party line, so I don't feel uncomfortable discussing it on Eater. (but keep it apolitical or the keys come out Smile )

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Mr_Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

~ Roycropper,

Yes but getting pissed whilst celebrating is not the same as getting inebriated as an amphibian whilst drowning your sorrows (as will be doing less than 30% of the Manchester voting population)

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iMike
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

If they'd proposed a charge based on the inner ring only, they might have had a chance. I puposely travel outside 'normal' hours to avoid traffic - I never experience congestion in the morning, except where there are road works, & in the afternoon I only get problems if I hit the tail end of the school run around Droylsden.

There was much rejoicing in the office this afternoon (until we got an email from the building management telling us that the heating & air con would be off between Xmas & new year Sad )

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atj
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well done Manchester, Red Ken didn't give us the choice in London, the latest figures I heard is that London is back to pre-congestion charge traffic levels anyway, so who are they trying to kid? It's just another tax. Who paid for all those TV adverts pushing the 'yes' vote anyway?

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Mugatu
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

On the other hand, public transport will not get as much investment.

Please humour me while I play Devil's advocate for a mo...

Levels of traffic in Manchester, heck, in ALL cities is getting worse every year. While families jam up their driveways with two, three, and even four cars, I jump on the tube, bus or bike. I invariably get there quicker.

Do you not think it's about time people stopped getting a car just because they've reached 18? Do you not think it's time people stopped using the car to go 300 yards to the corner shop? Do you not think it's time mothers stopped taking little jeremy to school in the BMW X5, when there are busses and bikes available?

NOTE: I'm not getting political here, just promoting a healthy debate!
I appreciate that there will always need to be businesses and individuals who need to drive, so I'm NOT anti car.

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Otterfan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree, Mugatu. When I was at school, it was a rare treat if your parents came to pick you up in the car to take you home. Now, it looks like it's standard practice, as around every school in the area there's a whole mobilization of vehicles every day.

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iMike
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mugatu wrote:
Do you not think it's time mothers stopped taking little jeremy to school in the BMW X5, when there are busses and bikes available?


There's a massive drop in traffic levels during the 6 week summer holidays. Personally, I'd stick a charging zone around schools - anything stopping within 500 yards would incur a penalty charge.

One thing that doesn't seem to have been made clear is that the majority of the 'grant' being made available to improve public transport wasn't a grant at all - it was a loan from central government, repayable over 30 years. The congestion charge was a means of raising revenue to repay this loan.

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Pastor Frank
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Is it possible for someone to post a translation, for those of us stuck in the Colonies?

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iMike
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ quick & dirty explanation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_congestion_charge

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Nanny Ogg
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yeah
Edinburgh voted NO to congestion charge
The council took the huff and set out to cause road chaos by installing a white elephant of a tram line.
The roads are dug up or closed, buses diverted, pedestrians confused
They also managed to co ordinate this with major changes at the main roads into the city
aaaaargh
Now if they'd spend the money improving the bus service, making it a lot cheaper, offering alternative routes then we'd all be on the buses



oh dear I'm going into rant mode

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Craig007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I refuse to use public transport because it is so disgraceful.

The buses are tips, the "clientele" are quite frankly CENSORED, the drivers tend to be arrogant bastards.

That's my experience with public transport. If they became like TITSA, and used clean, modern COACHES then I may be tempted again.

Mugatu, to your "little Jeremy" point (I can see what you've done here), I certainly do not expect my children to get on a 1984 double decker tip of a school bus. My childrens school is great, but the bus is a disgrace. A couple of years ago, they used to share the bus with high school pupils, although luckily that has stopped.

So I will be taking them to school for as long as I can, at least until they can be trusted to walk on their own as they get older. Only difference, it won't be an X5, it's a Mercedes-AMG C63.

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Nanny Ogg
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Oh go hug a tree you'll feel better, Craig Laughing


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we could all bounce along in space hoppers, be faster than the traffic round here

and growing up I truly believed we'd all have personal hovercraft or jet packs by now. Wheres mine?
Though I would need a seperate one to get the trolley back from Tesco

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Craig007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Nanny, I don't not use public transport because of the environment (well that is part of the reason Razz), but to the facts I stated above.

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Mr_Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Pastor Frank wrote:
Is it possible for someone to post a translation, for those of us stuck in the Colonies?


Big Man want to charge people £1,200 a year to drive to work.
People told Big Man, feck off.
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Nanny Ogg
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

As I said
If the buses were improved we'd use them more
Same for the trains
For what they're spending on trams here they could have subsidised the buses, improved the service and got wee shuttled running around town,
as it is my son now walks home from work as its quicker than driving or getting a bus
Wink

In some places you dont even get that choice
For a while my eldest lived in deepest darkest Clackmannanshire, it was either rely on a car, get a lift from a pal or spend a fortune on taxis

Personally I refuse to let my kids cylce round here
but I'm biased as I saw a child die from a fall from a bike



But back to the point, congestion charges just dont seem to work.

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Pastor Frank
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is way over my head, I will let you Royals piss and moan at your own leisure.

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Nanny Ogg
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

To explain, Pastor
The powers that be ( not as intellegent as our mods/ admin ) choose an area of a busy city
Then they charge you to drive your car in it, or you business van or your ambulance or anything according to how they feel
The idea is that by charging it reduces the volume of traffic and we all get a warm fuzzy feeling inside as well as wide clear free roads.
You have to understand that most UK cities have evolved around streets where horses abd carts were squashed, they're not built to cope with modern day trafiic,
mind you the first traffic lights were introduced in London in the days of horse and carriage

So a congestion charge is imposed on certain areas of the city, usually the busiest bit and everyone is supposed to stop going there by car
forgetting that we they need to go there for a reason, ie work, business, shopping - thats why its busy




Rolling Eyes

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Fo'andles
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well done to the people of Manchester.

The London Underground which opened in 1863 was built to relieve the congestion on the London roads, congestion on the roads is not new in any big cities or towns.

They have tried railways, trams and buses to take cars of the roads, the congestion charge is their latest idea.

Cambridge is looking at having the congestion charge, they have a Park and Ride scheme and have now made some roads one way (can still get knocked down by a bike, if you dont look both ways Laughing ).

Just my 2p's worth.

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Pastor Frank
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

So you are telling me that it is legislation to install a tollway, like the Tri-State?

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Mugatu
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sorry, but where does this idea come from that Buses are tips?

You MAY just have been listening to Jeremy Clarkson's rhetoric for just a few years too long. The man is some kind of long haired, 70's throwback, denim wearing, Capri driving twat. I'll prefer not to hear my transport planning views from a man such as Clarkson, as he's never been on a bus. I may be the only guy in the UK that thinks so, but he's an idiot that deserves pushing back to 1970 where he belongs. Don't forget that in 1970, no-one believed that carbon monoxide was harmful.

I travel on buses quite often. They're clean, even in London. The tubes are pretty clean. Over the last 5 years, I've had no bad experiences on either, whether dressed in normal clothes for work, or a suit for the opera.

To those that use their cars to drop farquhar at school, bear in mind that a bike was good enough for me for a 6 mile journey. And when I didn't fancy it, a 2 leg bus journey was the alternative. And I was Grammar School. None of this "Bus is a tip" complaint! Get on the bus, or ride, or walk.

For f*ck's sake, we HAVE to stop the school run bollocks. Because whenever the schools are on holiday, the West London roads around me are all of a sudden COMPLETELY EMPTY. Evil or Very Mad

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Also find during the school holidays, that the buses are not so crowded, as reported by my wife.

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Nanny Ogg
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

You'll probably find that during school holidays that
1 more people take holidays ( nae shite sherlock )
2 less teachers travelling
3 less schoolkids travelling
4 my son would argue this is a reason not to travel to school holiday or not


The idea of buses being less than ideal comes from
some rural areas ( like Stirling and Clackmannanshire )
them being cutback at evening and night times in Scotland capital

one of my kids rants " the bus timetable is a bigger work of fiction than Ian Rankin could write, nae wunder Rebus is set roond heur "

A quick, efficient. cheap public transport system would leave the roads free for business

Honestly
if you lived in a big city and could travel to the centre or beyond cheaply or for free would you use your car?


maybe we need Isaac Asimov's strips




Like my jet pack its all sci fi

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Craig007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Mugatu, don't dare think that I can't form my own opinion, and that I have to turn to Clarkson to get it.

I have experienced buses, and that is what I found. As it happens, I'm from Stirling, which is exactly what Nanny says in the post above mine.

It's because you live in London that the public transport is better, it has to be because of the sheer number of people there.

Take a leaf out of TITSAs book, First.

My children are both under 10, and I certainly do not expect them to cycle the distance to the school. They are too young to walk, the roads are too busy for them to cycle and this is an accurate image of the school bus.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2396/2268096229_15d504b546.jpg

The amount of vandals that are present on our buses is disgraceful too, I imagine in London that isn't the case because of the expensive living costs. Well, out here, it's normally all the people who can't, or can't afford to drive ( The young, pensioners e.t.c) They make the bus a very uncomfortable environment for children.

The only reason you are moaning is because you are in London. If you lived where I do, with plenty of space, and roads that are designed for CARS, then you would realise congestion is not a factor.

Oh, Mugatu. Less of the "You're a snob, and your children are little princes & princesses."

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