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FerryCorsten
Hello I'm New here!
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 6
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:17 am |
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So obviously there are legal issues with activities such as cashbaiting and hacking, but what about just regular scambaiting.
I've been reading the letter archives, in which Shiver Metimbers has gotten scammers to send him artwork, large samples of handwriting, etc.
I realize that the chances of these guys going to the authorities is virtually non-existent, and also that foreign authorities would not really have any jurisdiction to prosecute such small crimes, but putting that aside for the moment...
The scammers were offered large amount of cash for completion of said work. And let's say, purely hypothetically, the US/UK/AU legal system wanted to make an example of someone for doing this (worst case scenario).
Has anyone had any legal repercussions from scambaiting? Is anyone here a lawyer or otherwise knowledgeable about whether there could be any serious repercussions?
Thanks.
-Jack |
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GomerPyle
Baiting Guru
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 8875
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:56 am |
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I suppose hypothetically, a victim, having agreed to pay all expenses to receive a non-existent payment from a scammer, could be sued for refusing to pay all outstanding fees until his whole family are destitute and ruined, as he has agreed to enter into a contract of his own free will.
Potentially, there are legal consequences every time you open your mouth, put pen to paper, or even sneeze witout putting your hand in front of your nose. However, such arguments frequently raised, do not achieve anything because anything is possible hypothetically.
In reality, the legal consequences of baiting are minimal, which is not to say that a baiter should not consider what he is doing at any given time and seek guidance if he is not sure of his position.
I operate on a very simple basis, that if a scammer ventures into my inbox up to no good, he gets what he deserves. I don't have any obligation to offer him tea and biscuits. I am not obliged to deal honestly with liars, thieves and cheats.
That's my view and the view of most here. As far as I am aware there has never been any recorded case of a baiter being prosecuted - so what was the point of the question ? |
_________________ Fake sites killed 1 x 9 x 3 x 168 X
- the 'Asparagus Kid' - Accra to Lome - You Must surly Die in The Name Of Jesus Christ
- Steve - Lagos to Accra
- Frank - Lagos to Cotonou - co-bait with the vampire
- Shorty - Lagos to Cotonou - My Agro Base farming where i rearing chicken and other animals was set ablazed overnight and we do not know who is actual behinde all these evils! -
I and my crew was locked up for 3 good days….They wanted to charge us to court but later we are fined an huge amount of money…I asked them why did they arrest the men, they started laughing and saying all sorts mockering words! -
…because now, am left with nothing and remember i told you my Guy (Joe) gave up earlier this morning |
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friday3
Elite Baiter
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 1341
Location: beating my new firefox..
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:53 am |
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I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Unless you're cashing stolen/forged checks, collecting WU payments send with stolen credit cards etc.
A legal system anywhere that will attempt to prosecute "Tom Cruise" of "Made Up Industries" across international borders over a scammer sending you 4 bucks worth of wood carvings and not coughing the promised millions in non existant cash is about as unlikely as a dinosaur coming back to life, finding fifty dollars, buying lotto tickets, winning and turning the proceeds into the world largest fortune investing in arctic ice cream stands. |
_________________ The above text is the sole intellectual property of friday3. Reproduction without the expressed permission of Friday3 is a breach of copyright punishable be a fine of up to $50 000 (payable by check) and/or 5 years jail.
"Hubbard is a "crackpot" and of "doubtful mental background." - From FBI files concerning L, Ron Hubbard
Mods have a wonderful sense of humor; you just aren't funny
x21
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rumbero
Baiting Guru
Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 3677
Location: All the Salsa Night Clubs
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:54 am |
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The mugu can contact my two other characters which just happen to be
lawyers. I am sure the mugu can deal with them.
As far as I know, what can a mugu do. If they are dumb enough to fall prey of their own game, Well they deserve it |
_________________ Lagos to Tamale. Rev. Frank Lagos to Abuja
Lagos to Abuja Pr1nc3 F@w@z
Ghana to Benin's Simba Camp Joe C@rlton
Lagos to Ghana Opus Dei Templar
Nukuru to Mombasa 1,500 kms van donation
Co bait with SlowFreddy Sao Tome island to Gabon Lagos to Abuja Co, donation
YOUR WIFE WILL GIVE BIRTH TO A MONKEY, YOU ARE GOING TO SUFFER FROM EPILEPTIC,
LET YOUR MOTHER FUCK YOUR BEST FRIEND. LET YOUR FATHER FUCK A MAD STREET WOMAN, USELESS INTERNET FRAUDSTER. (barrister Dan )
I bet u , soon , u will be laying in a close casket ,
will make u understand that i'm a spiritual man (Makinwa the retarded mugu)
in juses name u will dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
( Makinwa) |
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FerryCorsten
Hello I'm New here!
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 6
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:20 am |
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>> I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Unless you're cashing stolen/forged checks, collecting WU payments send with stolen credit cards etc.
Yeah, I guess not.
BTW rumbero and Gomer I love you guys' signatures |
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419weasel
Baiting Guru
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 4207
Location: Somewhere in a hole. Waiting.
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:56 am |
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Just look out! The lads like to pretend to be law enforcement agencies.. FBI, CIA, EFCC, to name a few. Why, in a matter of time, you too can receive a death threat written in ladspeak from the FBI. Who knows? Maybe the lad will even sic the "board of directors" on you.
Lad playing Prof Charles Solodu wrote: |
"You need to be carefull with what so ever you doing or we are going to track you down with the baord of the Directors." |
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_________________ GO GRRL BAITERS!!
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Lad Quotes
http://members.419eater.com/~419weasel/ladquotes.html |
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thud419
Baiting Guru
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 3193
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:26 am |
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If you read Shiver's artwork baits carefully, you will notice that he never actually promises money for the goods that are being sent. He offers the possibility of money based on the acceptability of samples.
Yes it is close to the legal line, although far less likely to get you into trouble than cash baiting for a number of reasons. If you don't like it, don't do it. |
_________________ Click here to feel warm and cozy.
I did not f**k your wife in any way -- Nike Akanbi
I don't know what else to do or do I continue filling and filling forms. -- Barr. Koloti
you has been dribbling me up and down but I will show some thing you have never seen before, I think you breath air wait and see. -- Barr. Cole
x14
x 0.25 won from Reaper in a sucker's bet
x8 x several |
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GomerPyle
Baiting Guru
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 8875
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:03 am |
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The mantra that's always quoted here FerryCorsten is - do what you personally feel comfortable with. No one should criticise you if you feel unhappy to do some things that others do, if you feel uneasy for ethical or legal reasons.
My mantra - do not preach unto others as you wouldn't like them to preach unto you (not that I'm accusing you). No harm in asking for opinions or checking what's acceptable though.
The first time you start dealing with people who lie and cheat for a living is quite unnerving for someone who prides themself on being honest and fair, and it's quite easy to feel uneasy at what you are doing - UNTIL you discover that they will tell any lie and abuse normal human decency, to wrench dollars from your wallet.
I'm not a 'gung ho hang em high' baiter, just one that's dealt with victims and seen them attack charities trying to help disfigured children in their own country (the Noma charity was just one). The death threats and insults are very satisfying to receive. They probably started as poor destitute orphans with millions in a trunk box, but after being baited their true identity becomes apparent with the tirade of abuse you receive.
Welcome to the world of baiting - and make sure you have fun. |
_________________ Fake sites killed 1 x 9 x 3 x 168 X
- the 'Asparagus Kid' - Accra to Lome - You Must surly Die in The Name Of Jesus Christ
- Steve - Lagos to Accra
- Frank - Lagos to Cotonou - co-bait with the vampire
- Shorty - Lagos to Cotonou - My Agro Base farming where i rearing chicken and other animals was set ablazed overnight and we do not know who is actual behinde all these evils! -
I and my crew was locked up for 3 good days….They wanted to charge us to court but later we are fined an huge amount of money…I asked them why did they arrest the men, they started laughing and saying all sorts mockering words! -
…because now, am left with nothing and remember i told you my Guy (Joe) gave up earlier this morning |
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windypops
Baiting Guru
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 6059
Location: Planet X
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:08 am |
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Gomer, and others, pretty much summed it up. I wish one of my lads would actually try and get me into court. Would make for an interesting case. Or good sig material at the very least.
They threaten me with legal action from time to time, but always back down when I set my barristers on them.
Chance of it ever happening to a baiter=nil. |
_________________ "No amount of semen donation will save this situation" Sanny Sanny
"We must disagree to agree" Raji Musa
If it's LADS you want. GoTo: http://www.yopmail.com/
and sign in with either ladmail or kentbrockman
Last edited by windypops on Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mr. mugu
Lazy Bum
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1747
Location: Looking for goats in all the wrong places
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:16 pm |
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GomerPyle wrote: |
I suppose hypothetically, a victim, having agreed to pay all expenses to receive a non-existent payment from a scammer, could be sued for refusing to pay all outstanding fees until his whole family are destitute and ruined, as he has agreed to enter into a contract of his own free will.
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Not a lawyer and never played one on TV but, if you bait safe, said victim is fictional. I'd think that would pretty much kill any hypothetical chance right there.
As others have said, practically this would be about as smart for a lad to do as someone going into a police station and wanting someone charged for stealing their cocaine. |
_________________ x7 x9 x2 (team effort)
(team bait) Harcourt-Singapore "There is no hiding place for you " Captain Jack Sparrow".." -Ed Smith
"I guess,you know what that means the FBI ,the Singaporean Police,the Royal Malaysia Police are on your tail.." -Ed to Cap'n Jack
"I don�t know if you intention is to run away with my sweat." - George Dunant
"stop writting me piece of sh*t mother f**ker. you want a story, I will give you a story about your scam master George" - Newsm*ker
"QUICKLY DO THE GIRL MARY WANT TO DIE IN OUR NECK" - Ecowas bank
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Ima Baeder
Baiting Guru
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 18313
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:35 pm |
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Lads aren't reallly interested in bringing people to justice. I am currently a wanted woman who stole tons of money from my ministry, there is even a financial reward for my capture. My lad has been offered opportunities to turn me in and instead has me writing to the "British Interpol" and "[email protected]" so that I can pay some of his fees. |
_________________ 348 Fake Sites killed
x 100 2 Years |
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D11
Elite Baiter
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 1702
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:57 pm |
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shiver has his own way of doing things with usually hilarious results, but very few copy him.
In legal terms i cant really answer that im not a lawyer or the police but ive never heard of anyone getting any problems from law enforcement for baiting lads, a few raised eyebrows or a "you did what?" but no real major problems of baiters being in trouble for it.
Of course with some types of bait - for legal reasons its well documented in many places - the short answer is dont post about it or do it, posts get locked if people mention illegal activities for obvious reasons.
Im in no way defending shiver but i think you will find he knows how far he can push things without getting himself into trouble - if people copy him they may not know that very fine line.
So far no baiter has been arrested for doing what we do, and as long as you follow the guidelines no one will ever be. |
_________________
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ok this is good - abum bello |
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JMRazor
Baiting Guru
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 7103
Location: Yes
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:08 pm |
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Police and prosecutors want victims first of all. Lads aren't going to garner any sympathy. Second of all, who would be prosecuting you? Do you think that a lad from Lagos or Spain is going to get a local police officer in Easton, Pennsylvania (or Dorchester, England) to begin an investigation into why you haven't sent the promised $500 Moneygram which was to compensate the lad for his 350 mile trip?
So, break it down into practical vs. ethical. Practically, there is virtually no chance of any liability if you bait properly and within our guidelines. Ethically -- as others have said -- do what you feel most comfortable with. If you just want to waste a lad's time, then have at it -- it can be fun, and there's little problem of tipping into questionable areas. But if you really want to feel comfortable, go into fake bank killing or shutting down phone lads -- 103% risky free and 109% morally pure.
Have fun. |
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LaBrea
Elite Baiter
Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 1355
Location: Yet another hotel
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:49 pm |
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Echoiing JMR's point on the civil matters side:
You have a "contract" with a lad (well, your character does) to deliver $4500 in order to receive an inheritance of $20M.
The lad decides to sue you for non-performance. He files suit in Lagos Superior Court, against Mr. Eric Shunn of Charliestown, West Carolina.
The Court mails a summons to said address, where it is returned for non-service....
The point is: the lad is also chasing a phantom.
Even if he had the incredible gall/stupidiity to file criminal charges against your character, how would your character ever be served/arrested/indicted?
What Lagos prosecutor wouldn't laugh him right out of hiis office?
Unless you somehow break the laws in your country in such a way as to garner attention: cashing a fake check, accepting a payment into your bank account from a lad who is using you for money laundering, etc.
I'm no attorney, but I'd say you're safe from legal reprisals. |
_________________ x2 x7 x6 x7 x5
"...It is in the light of the above-mentioned person with the fact that he died of testate..." - Barrister T3ddy J0hns0n
"...you make me stupid to the people ...no time to wast you better go and see your doctor because l think your lack of stickiness." _Dr. Usman Bello
"Sir I sworn an oath as a legal luminary to defend your cause in all ramification from the armpit of the law" - Barr. W4k4r4 Iss4c
x6 x25
Click here to help your lad miss his scam quota |
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nomex419v2
Not quite a Newb
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 35
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:53 pm |
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I read in a paper that 2 different people in Springfield Illinois have had brushes with the law over working with the mugus, fake money orders and travelers cheques. What saved them was that a local AM radio station had baited a love mugu just a year or two ago, so the scam is known in that area.
Yeah, I can see a lad spending his cafe cash to lodge a police report instead of moving on to get baited again.
Does anyone use the search function? I know this has been discussed on several occasions and that, until a court sets a precedent, there will be little or no change in the various baiter's modalities.
Next thing someone will ask if anyone has been sued for defamation of character for insulting a lad. |
_________________ V1.0 Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:32 pm to Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:15 pm
V2.0 Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:15 pm to present |
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Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:06 pm |
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Legal Schmeegal.
Why the heck should I care about the law when (as you can see from my sig) I got the Big Man himself on my tail? |
_________________
God will see you true for all this you have done to me you bastard. - Collins Kalu
MAY THE HAND THAT TYPE ON KEYBORD BECOME STRICKEN AND TRANSMIT VIRUS TO YOU ENTIRE BODY. - Dr Linda Akeem
oh what a mess its time cabbage punks like u will be expose for trully what they are. - David Cole |
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gargstang
Master Baiter
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 139
Location: Around the way
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:14 pm |
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I was recently advised by a local detective that I was potentially putting myself out there to be prosecuted by a credit card company because a scammer sent me a product that looked to be purchased with a stolen card. Trying to do the right thing and not retain possession of stolen property, I turned it over to the police and then got the third degree.
It is important to note that I never asked to have anything sent to me and never made any promises of cash payments to the lad. |
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bearkat419
Baiting Guru
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 4445
Location: Houston, TX
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:27 pm |
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I'm skittish of the remote possibility of having to explain why I'm receiving shipments of forged checks... so I quit baiting check lads. Do what you're comfortable with, and nothing more |
_________________ |
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kubis
*** BANNED ***
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 164
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:35 pm |
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I was a victim of ID fraud some years ago, knew who was responsible, reported it to the Police who didn�t want to know. So I don�t feel they would be any more likely to pursue baiters |
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Eliza_Doolittle
"Warned for lad hugging"
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 1979
Location: Contemplating a plan to steal Shiver's cat
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:47 pm |
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Ok I thought KD locked up the old broken records last night??????????
Who slipped him some liquor and stole the key????? |
_________________ Uch3nna - 222km Lagos, Nigeria to Cotonou, Benin
M4rtins Uzo - Lagos to Abuja "l have spent money,time,took risk to travel all the way from lagos to abuja to meet you.(8 good hours on board)."
Ed - Port Harcourt to Kaduna
vLad's ebay auction states "Wonderful seller! Thinks "out of the box" to get item to you."
<br>
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Tsnerd
Not quite a Newb
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 41
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:56 pm |
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This question comes up every quarter or so.
There isn't anything wrong with the new members asking about it.
Please keep the snark to a minimum. |
_________________
Fakers: many, many, lots; an SSL and a couple of Resellers.
x 6
AH, AH, AH! Two little ! |
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kleindoofy
*** BANNED ***
Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6248
Location: Europe
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:01 pm |
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FerryCorsten wrote: |
... The scammers were offered large amount of cash ... |
In addition to what the others have said, we shouldn't forget that any offers or promises a baiter makes are based on, follow, and answer totally bogus claims and promises made by the scammer.
If - in downtown Manhattan, right in front of a cop - a guy walked up to you and said "hey, duya wanna buy the Brooklyn Bridge, I'll sell it to ya?" and you answered "ok, if you buy me lunch and shine my shoes, I just might buy the bridge off you" and the scammer did buy you lunch and shine your shoes, the cop would have a laughing fit, but he wouldn't dream of arresting you.
[edit:] @ED: The difference here is that the OP asked his question and read the answers. In the other the OP harped on his premise without listening to anybody else. |
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wayne
Account closed at users request
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 3630
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:10 pm |
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If the lad thought he had a legal leg to stand on, we wouldn't be receiving emails theatening us with legal action from [email protected] and with the same IP address as the lad himself. |
_________________ x56 |
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kubis
*** BANNED ***
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 164
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:42 pm |
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Quote: |
I'm receiving shipments of forged checks... |
I know the rules of this website is to not involve third parties but is acceptable to have Cheques sent to Police Stations
sorry if the question is an old one |
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Cachuma
Baiting Guru
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 2284
Location: Blowing bubbles at 130 fsw
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Posted:
Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:51 pm |
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@kubis - short answer: no. ITP's. Police stations generally have no jurisdiction over whomever sent the bad check; couldn't or wouldn't do anything about it even if they did; and it just wastes their time when they've got REAL local baddies to go hunt down. |
_________________ Alex Mandl4: The past week has been the worst in my entire life, I have lost weight, I don't sleep at night, I left my job abruptly, and do you think it has been easy for?
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= Mr. Mandl4 & Mr. Brown, 1480 total miles: Johannesburg to Gaborone; Gaborone to Maun; Back to Gaborone; back to Johannesburg.
x15 X1 X1
<---TS certified. |
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