Observation and a question

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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:41 am

I am still somewhat new here so forgive me if this has been asked before. It seems to me that quite a few of our very junior members have, shall we say, a "know it all" attitude. I've seen questions answered by several senior board members who have their sound advice questioned by 1 month members. I've seen posts where new members will ask a question, get an answer they don't seem happy with and state they are going to do it their way instead. Now I certainly believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I think when someone with much more experience offers tips and advice on a subject they should be listened to. Perhaps I'm "old school" but I believe most of us newer members should follow the posts and try to pick up knowledge from what other long time members and moderators write.

I guess my question is this: Have many noobies always had this attitude and they eventually settle down or has the recent publicity to 419 scams attracted a breed of ahhh, less mature members?

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:54 am

Nah, It's just Shiv and the mods signing in under new names and testing us to see if we've read the stickies.

Seriously though, it looks like a lot of people aren't reading the stickies. There is a point to them, they're not just there for decoration, they answer a lot of the questions people have been posing.

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:05 pm

I think a lot of the 'attitude' is youthful exuberance rather than deliberate insubordination Very Happy

People who persist in doing it 'their way' rather than follow the advice they are given usually drop off the radar pretty quickly because they run their baits into the ditch and can't understand why so they give up altogether.

Not reading the Stickies is the usual reason why newbies constantly ask the same basic questions and make the same basic mistakes. It's too tempting to go blasting into a bait without learning the basic knowledge and skills required. But we were all newbies once and we've all made the same mistakes so let's not be too harsh?

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:06 pm

Impatient is the word to best describe some of the noobies and I know we all understand that as we were all noobies once upon a time but, as Rodus said, the stickies are the answer to many questions and noobies don't want to waste too much time reading ,, "the boring stuff" shall we say Wink

which is of course the most important stuff to for first class info as to how to bait well..

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

Unfortunately, it is not uncommon on a lot of fora--especially highly specialized fora. It is like reading directions: few do it. So you will have people join, say, a science forum and ask a question--or demand an answer to a question--that is one of the FAQ and/or "Stickies."

--J.D.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 7103 Location: Yes

Mad4Maya wrote:

I guess my question is this: Have many noobies always had this attitude and they eventually settle down or has the recent publicity to 419 scams attracted a breed of ahhh, less mature members?

Listen noob -- there's a sticky for that question. Rolling Eyes

Don't waste our valuable fluffy kitty-cat time by making these posts. I have to go issue some fake warnings now....

Wink

Mod edit- I changed your inappropriate word, JM. TS

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:27 pm

@Mad4Maya: The mods will love you for this post. if Lotta pops in, I'm almost sure she'll award you a pink pony and a hot bun for your post. Wink

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:32 pm

One of my pet peeves with n00bs is the "I'm going to get the bestest trophy EVER on my first bait and in my first week!!" attitude. It takes time and skill, or at least some incredibly good luck to get trophies. Learn the ropes first. Get a feel for baiting straight before charging in headlong asking for a trophy on your second email to a lad. Stickies will give you the basics, but nothing beats the feeling you get for lads after a few baits. No amount of reading stickies will give you that.

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:42 pm

Stuff it, you are all wrong. I will continue to do things my way.

Uhm wait what are we talking about again, but seriously it is the impatience thing. I dont think it is necessarily trying to be insubordinate but just wanting to do some fun things, trying to run before learning to walk. Personally I am trying to take it easy, and I dont think I am one of those noobs you are talking about. Well at least I tell myself that....

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:51 pm

LOLZ0RZ! me too...slap him!

(I liked the one who questioned TSnerds advice by pointing out how he couldn't be sure that TSnerd wasn't just another scammer. Maybe someone can find it...)

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

I don't have an opinion on this topic one way or the other, except that I hate the term, 'Noob'.

@Ook- I think you're doing fine. Very Happy

@Don- JM might know where that is. I think he had it in his sig for awhile.

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:58 pm

http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108764
found it!

Quote:

but then how do I know that TSnerd is not Mugu Bowanu from Nigeria looking for more card numbers (no offence TSnerd)

That thread had me laughing out loud.

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:05 pm

Buhahuahua, I remember that one. It was me who had it in the sig line for a while Wink

But seriously, how do we know? Razz

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:10 pm

I'm about a month old member and I've never questioned a person who's been at this forum for more than 1 year Cool

98.9896654% sure I haven't but I can be bothered to look through my posts..

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:49 pm

Interesting discussion. Smile

It's not quite as easy as listening to members who have been around the longest or have a high postcount. In any group, you will get people who say little or have been there only a little while, but who speak sense and can be relied on. Others can have been around forever or said an awful lot without actually learning the ropes. And then there are those who have been around forever who do know what they're talking about. Telling which is which around here comes with reading a lot and becoming more experienced at baiting yourself.

Challenging existing practices is not bad per se, it's only a real problem when it gets ridiculous and flies in the face of obviously sound advice repeated ad nauseam by people whose views deserve respect. There are few rules here. Mostly there is guidance and suggestions, some of which is delivered more forcefully. Smile

Where there are rules, they are necessary for legal reasons or for the smooth running of the board. Challenging those is not on, but happens rarely anyway, imo. I think the friction comes when we can be a bit outspoken or abrupt with questions we have heard or attitudes we have seen often. Baiters as a bunch are never going to be shrinking violets, and people who are going to make good baiters do need to be a little bit robust, but I suspect we can forget at times the bouncy shiny enthusiasm that new people have, and how that makes people post. Most of the time, I think that the exuberance wears off pretty quickly, and either the person leaves, or they settle into this place and will, in 6 months' time, be heard pontificating about how a newb has annoyed them. Laughing

Check my first few posts, and I am sure you will find I was an annoying newb as well; I am too scared of the Embarassed

to go back and check for myself. Very Happy

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:55 pm

I think it really comes down to personalities. Some new baiters tend to put the cart before the horse and expect total peer acceptance and respect without having to put the time into earning it.

It seems to me that what you�re describing happens most often when someone thinks they have this great idea or insight and they solicit opinions with the expectation that everyone will simply confirm and applaud their post. If the response is less than accolades, then denial and defensiveness set in.

Maybe it happens more here, but I doubt it. Though I suppose it is possible that some personality types are drawn to baiting out of a certain fondness for conflict, and a desire to distinguish themselves.

Like me? Hope not.

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:23 pm

Mad4Maya wrote:

It seems to me that quite a few of our very junior members have, shall we say, a "know it all" attitude.

Yep, that sounds like me! Embarassed

Seriously, I know that I personally can come across as a bit of a know it all at times, but I only advise others when it's a particular thing I've experienced myself recently.
The way I see it, it saves senior members from having to answer the same question for the 100th time. As a new baiter myself I've made half the mistakes that new members ask questions about.

As for disregarding advice M4M, I have seen that a lot recently, you make a fair point. And I've never understood people that do that.

As Ook said, some will always try to run before they can walk. Peer acceptance and all that. Hell I'm still at the baiting straight stage and will be for a long time yet, there's a lot to learn. But there are one or two members I've noticed recently that have been giving it the "Billy Big B0llocks" after 20 posts, claiming bank kills, Safaris etc when they've done no such thing. (Or at least nothing that's got any proof!)

Just one of those things I suppose, as Eight said these guys may well drop off the radar, or else may make excellent baiters, who knows?

Just my two penn'orth.

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:29 pm

I think whoever started this thread is a BADger. It just seems to be too convenient!

There are a lot of different ways to do things on this site. No one way is the absolute correct way (other than mine), but there are a lot of WRONG ways to do things. Hopefully, by posting questions, you can steer clear of the wrong ways.

The 'elders' here have put forth a lot of time trying different formats and modalities, so they know what works. So when someone posts that they are going to get their lad to travel to Antartica and get a tattoo while being video taped humping a goat within week two, people tend to throw out the BS flag. Not to be mean, just to keep people from getting disappointed. A lot of new members come in with high hopes, thinking that this stuff just comes within two or three emails. It takes time and finesse.

As to your question, most of the 'rogue' baiters that come in with the know-it-all attitudes typically leave as quickly as they come in. They usually try their 'groundbreaking' modalities and fail. They get bored quickly and leave. I can't really think of too many who have stuck around and turned into legit baiters. Other than TSnerd.

Mod comment: Ok, first Don reminding everyone I could be a lad, and now you. Is this 'empty the skeletons from Snerd's closet' day? TS

Baiting Guru Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 3123

Whats wrong with disagreeing? I did in my Royal Mail thread...

I am new, but I still give advice to newer members than myself. Experienced folks didn't get there by not posting their opinions.

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:38 pm

Let's see...

On Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:19 pm, jojobean in his first post wrote:

Does anyone have a blank Western Union Transfer document that I may use to torture my beloved mugu? I am sure they are around but I have been unable to locate one. Thanks guys.

On Sun May 13, 2007 4:02 pm, Mugatu in his first post wrote:

Hi, I recieved my first mugu email last week from a Desmond Koffi. I've long been a fan of 419eater, but I'd now like to join in the fun of baiting myself.

I'd like to apply for a mentor please.

On Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:48 pm, luckey in one of his first posts wrote:

Main, chat, love/dating, misc scams, and surplus letters do not seem to be behind a log in today. Is anyone else experiencing that?

Dang! Who would have thought? Eight asked about IPs Wink

On Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:26 pm, Eight in the first post wrote:

Hi all. Yet another noob here! I promised myself I was just going to lurk and not register here, and not sign up for an anonymous email account, and definitely not sign any guestbooks or otherwise try to catch myself a lad. A week of lurking and lmfao at all your work, and I have done all the above.
Hoping to learn lots more from everyone here before I start on my first bait. I'd be interested to know, as scorpiogal asked, whether fastmail strips the IP header?

On Wed May 26, 2004 5:17 pm, Don in his first post wrote:

Same holds for me! I've been lurking around for quite some time and decided to give it a go and started messing about with my first pets. I'll just learn by doing and reading here and I guess if I get them lads to waste 20 minutes a day it's fine with me.

On Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:27 pm, TSnerd in his first post wrote:

Abeg let me join here bros! Dis be the place to hang out unless Don is about with his roses. Don, keeeeep ooooooooooof ma roses, abeg!

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:52 pm

I guess over enthusiastic is a good way to describe the attitude I'm talking about. It's not really too difficult to see who is experienced and knows what they are talking about and those who aren't. And as Eight said it isn't always linked to post count or longevity. I have found that lots can be learned from reading the published baits, but until you start working the straight baits and finding what does and doesn't work for you, it's only theory. Once a tactic works for you, I think you get a better understanding why it does. Some of my straight baits lasted only a few days and I learned from my mistakes with those. There's a wealth of information on this site in general and the stickies and published bait section in particular. I know they are recommended reading for all but perhaps it should be required.

@JMRazor I was expecting that...LMAO

@Wayne I agree with the "Trophy Attitude" you mentioned. It seems some folks are here just for that. Anyone that reads some of the published baits can tell that it takes careful grooming of a lad to get him to the point where he'll do whatever you ask.

@TheGreatOOk, Reaper, Luckey and Mugatu the fact that you even asked says you aren't type I was referring to.

@JoJo I think I missed the fluffy cat sticky. From reading your work you are definitely one that should be listened to.

@Luther..Great research!!

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:52 pm

Luther Blissett wrote:

Let's see...

<snip: other quotes since I'm only interested in myself>

On Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:48 pm, luckey in one of his first posts wrote:

Main, chat, love/dating, misc scams, and surplus letters do not seem to be behind a log in today. Is anyone else experiencing that?

Ahh yes, my first locked thread. Man I was such a pr*ck in those days. Laughing

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:23 pm

craig007 wrote:

Whats wrong with disagreeing? I did in my Royal Mail thread...

There is nothing wrong with it. No one has a problem with that. But this is when it becomes annoying...

A noob may post:

Quote:

Does anyone know how to get lads to pay for shipments?

This is a perfectly legitimate question. No problem with asking. Inevitably, people will post that it is not a good idea to use that modality for a couple of reasons- safety, the mugu will use a stolen credit card, etc. Then the noob may proceed to tell everyone that, indeed, it can be done safely and without worry and blah, blah, blah. So, they asked a question for which they already had an answer; albeit a wrong one.

I disagree with some people on this site, some disagree with me. That doesn't mean one way is right and one way is wrong. It is just to say that there are a lot of different ways to skin a cat, so to speak.

I think the problem comes when someone poses a question and then completely ignores and tries to refute the information given to them by experienced members.

EDIT: Luther, just to let you know, that whole first thing of mine was acting. I was just pretending to be incompetent. That's all.

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:52 pm

jojobean wrote:

Luther, just to let you know, that whole first thing of mine was acting. I was just pretending to be incompetent. That's all.

Yes, yes, no need to remind me, I remember what you told me to say. Now for another 100 via WU I'll continue to tell people that you were born as the perfect baiter Wink

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

Interesting topic.
I have only been here a month and a half myself, and during that time, have seen others who joined at the same time as me come in like a flood and then fizzle out and disappear.
I've definitely noticed a few types of new members:

Short term/Voyeurs: They've read published baits, register to the forums, sign up for a mentor, "ROFL" at a bunch of stuff, maybe ask about IP's and go way within a week.

Overzealous/Impatient: Register, Read everything, Post everywhere, try to get a wood carving in the first week, come up with brilliant modalities that no one has ever thought of Rolling Eyes

and blow their load within a week or two. . . then fade out.

Mimics/Wannabees: They read all the stickies, admit they are new with all advice given, regurgitate the Golden Rules: "Bait Safe", post almost every picture they receive and then generally settle down. (probably end up being good baiters).

What I love about this place is that the moderators are a varied bunch. There are some very patient and kind responses to questions that might have been answered a zillion times, but there are also those mods that smack you in the head one time (albeit gently Smile

) to knock some sense into you. The combination works extremely well in terms of education of new members. The kind mods help us feel good being here, the blunt mods help us learn better to not be idiots.

and oh yeah, one more type of newbie: Me, a suck-up Laughing

EDIT: I forgot one type of new members. The perfectly normal learn as you go types who are reading this right now. Wink

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