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gargstang
Master Baiter


Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 139
Location: Around the way


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hopefully one final ethics comment - If you have ever dealt with a victim of a scam first hand, you would have no remorse for these people. I just receieved 110 pages of IM and emails from a lady who was about to be caught up in a dating scam. She was on the hook bad but were able to avoid any losses. It is unbelieveable how ruthless these people are.
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Julian Day
Master Baiter


Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 108


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I found this site after a friend lost 5,000 which he was pursuaded to "lend" to a "lady" he met through internet dating. She disappeared, turned out to have given him a false address, and the police, although helpful, couldn't get any result.
Point was, he was vulnerable after a messy divorce, and on his own....it wasn't so much the loss of the money (he's reasonably well off), but the emotional shock put him under a long course of medical treatment for depression, and we were genuinely worried for a time that he might commit suicide.
And that was an intelligent and successful businessman who fell for a scam....so what chance for some honest and trusting person who loses money they can ill afford, thinking they are helping a good cause.
So, no sympathy for scammers from me.
------------------------

ELIZA --- sorry to hear of your kid's accident. Pleased it wasn't worse, and that it sounds as if he'll be O.K. by now.
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BeatlesMania
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 99
Location: Roll up, for the magical mystery tour . . .


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sorry for yet another DA follow-up, BUT . . .

DA, you mention "serious emotional commitments" with 4my. If you had read through this thread carefully, you would have discovered:

o Ed is married with children
o Ed professed undying love for 4my's cousin
o Ed proposed marriage to both 4my and 4my's cousin at the same time

Emotional commitments? If it is, then it's the first true human emotion he has shown. He professes undying love for a character he has never met, but coincidently enough, is quite wealthy. Incidentally, 4my's cousin was also wealthy. Go figure.

You've got a bit to learn DA. Do a bit of homework prior to posting your moral queasiness about a situation you are not involved with, and have not thoroughly researched.

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DevilsAdvocate
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 5


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The point I was making is what if he kills himself after discovering his whole life is a game played by internet puppetmasters. Are anyone in here morally responsible in any way?

This wasn't in any way ment as trolling, just as a reality check. Does everything he has done justify everything you do to him. Where does the line go. Apparently caning is OK, for instance. What about baiting him to a country with sharia-laws and setting him up to be arrested and executed?

I love this baiting stuff.. I've seen some of the other work done now, and its absolutely fantastic. I just hope that the ones pulling the strings don't forget that they are playing with a human, and that even though this guy is evil through and through, being responsible for his suicide (for instance) might just sting a little.

I'm terribly sorry for derailing this thread, I should have posted in a different thread and linked it instead.

And, again, this was not ment to be trolling. I mean to be devils advocate to bring light to a subject that may be important to those who orchestrate this, but they may have lost sight of while getting caught up in the game.

You are supposed to be the good-guys. Cruel, sadistic good-guys, but still. Twisted Evil Wink


Edit: If anyone wants to discuss this further, create a new thread and link to it?
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dr stephen williams
Turd's Guardian Angel


Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 14224
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think the ethics have been hashed over and we have near universal concensus: Ed is a thief. Ed is busy fielding this bogus scam, so he is not thiefing anyone else. This is good. Ed is bad. Ed should be in jail. Instead he is wasting his time.

Now, the really important question is: where is Ed now? What's the latest?!
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Worf
Elite Baiter


Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 1690
Location: Florida - it's hot down here


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

3d going to the Bahamas? Excellent idea Laughing.

I can just see it now. A new 3d youtube video with pictures of 3d in the Bahamas, steel drum music playing in the background Smile.

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HomerJFong
Courtesiless son of a doggy


Joined: 16 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

DevilsAdvocate wrote:


Edit: If anyone wants to discuss this further, create a new thread and link to it?


How about www.eatfecesladhuggers.org?

Back on subject, Eliza has a PM with my Skype info.

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Josh
Elite Baiter


Joined: 24 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The main ethical concern I've had was regarding ITPs when that goat got involved Laughing

Ed could have backed out at any moment. He hasn't because he's still greedy for money. End of story.

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Julian Day
Master Baiter


Joined: 19 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

DevilsAdvocate wrote:
The point I was making is what if he kills himself after discovering his whole life is a game played by internet puppetmasters. Are anyone in here morally responsible in any way?


Any slight pangs of ("newbie"?) sympathy which I might have had, are eliminated by the reassurances of far more senior and experienced members that this guy was, and continues to be, a successful and ruthless scammer (despite, and even while, being made a fool of by this bait).

We could all beat up ourselves mentally with "what if's" in every part of our lives, to the extent that we would never get anything done!

IMHO this guy won't kill himself, unless he bursts with anger if and when he finds out! Laughing

Seriously, though, and if you want to discuss morals....if he really did top himself, it would surely be a matter only for the baiters involved and their own consciences whether they felt that they were morally responsible?
Don't let it worry you, DevilsAdvocate, YOUR conscience would be clear whatever happened. Rolling Eyes
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mr. mugu
Lazy Bum


Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1747
Location: Looking for goats in all the wrong places


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

DevilsAdvocate wrote:
The point I was making is what if he kills himself after discovering his whole life is a game played by internet puppetmasters. Are anyone in here morally responsible in any way?

Nope.
I really hate ethics nuts. Ethics are always a very gray area. If you don't like what we're doing then promise yourself that you will never become the terrible people we are. And please shut up. You are never going to convince me what I've done here is wrong. I wouldn't tell a lad that if he puts a gun to his head and pulls the trigger he'll get $100,000, but if he gets run over by a bus on his way to the WU I won't lose sleep over it.
Okay, so in your opinion I'm a terrible person, I can live with that.
You mentioned in an earlier post that we are being vigilantes. Yep we are. I'd love to report Ed to the EFCC and be done with it. Fact of the matter is that all that could possibly happen to Ed in Nigeria is that he would be hit up for a bribe. I think he needs to do a little more penance than that.

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callum
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Joined: 29 May 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

DevilsAdvocate wrote:
What happens when his world comes falling down?
it alrady has, he's just too caught up in his own greed to realise it.
DevilsAdvocate wrote:
What if he commits suicide?
That simply goes towards balancing the books against those victims of scammers who have sadly been driven to this.

Brilliant work and much kudos to all who have particpated in this bait and in doing so have prevented a despicable criminal from victimising the innocent. Thumbs up

_________________
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DevilsAdvocate
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Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
You are never going to convince me what I've done here is wrong. I wouldn't tell a lad that if he puts a gun to his head and pulls the trigger he'll get $100,000, but if he gets run over by a bus on his way to the WU I won't lose sleep over it.
Okay, so in your opinion I'm a terrible person, I can live with that.

I'm not trying to convince you. I haven't concidered the least wether you are a terrible person or not, and don't care to. Did you even read my posts?

Quote:
How about www.eatfecesladhuggers.org?

Uncalled for, as a lot of the other crap from people here.

I've been nothing but nice, and asked a couple of perfectly legit questions, (Especially concidering that what you are doing is illegal in several countries.) and you guys come out with defensive pissed off namecalling... talk about hitting a nerve.. Rolling Eyes

I'll return to lurking, god help it if a "newb" tries to add his 2c and step into the community, or even asks a difficult question. Shocked Rolling Eyes
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HomerJFong
Courtesiless son of a doggy


Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3160
Location: Now seeking sanctuary in the Conch Republic


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You won't be missed.

_________________
"I was at the Abuja Embassy Today, the Security guards say that the is no Mr. Bryan Adams working with them at either the lagos or abuja embassy. and did not let me in." - Efosa Erhabor - (Accra to Abuja)
"We stayed there for two days hopping to get any of you" - Pastor Collins
"i will report to webmaster,abuse and the police hold and see, .....go to hell and rust in there bastard........bitch" - Steve Wright
"This office will like to inform you that your winnings have been forfieted due to acts unbecoming of a humanbeing." - The Alpha Lottery
"A MAD MAN WILL PREGNANT YOUR JUNIOR SISTER AND THE BABY WILL BE A MAD BASTARD LIKE YOU." - Mahadul Usman
"I AM NOT A FOLL LET ME BE BECAUSE YOU ARE JUST AN ANIMAL TO DEAL WITH" - Tunji Adams
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BeatlesMania
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 99
Location: Roll up, for the magical mystery tour . . .


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think the problem here is that many of the people on this forum have endured countless ethics discussions. They have become jaded, because they have been dissed for everything from being Caucasian domineers from the 18th century, to causing the death of criminals, to being on the same moral level as these criminals.

To you and I, as noobs, we have not had the benefit of these countless discussions. They have, and have come to terms with it. Consequently, I think many of the irate and curt responses is from frustration at yet-another-ethics-discussion, then with the actual content of the discussion.

Early on, I had decided to myself that when I bait, I will have my own moral lines. But, when others bait, I will not question their moral decisions. I will question legal decisions if they cross criminal (or maybe civil) lines. But the community as a whole had decided on certain ethics, and I accept most of it. If something causes me moral discomfort, then I just won't participate in that type of activity.

Caveat Emptor.

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dr stephen williams
Turd's Guardian Angel


Joined: 06 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yeah, yeah, yeah.


WHERE'S ED!?!
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callum
Director of Press Relations


Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 3631
Location: On the run from the asylum and this seems like a good place to hide. Blend right in...


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

BeatlesMania wrote:
...etc etc...

Caveat Emptor.
Good post. You've hit it spot on.

DA, don't take it personally. Ethics discussions here are fast becoming viewed as only one step removed from politics and religion simply because there have been so many of them, particularly in recent months. Just consider it as one of those those things we learn by experience.

So don't be shy, get stuck in, grab a lad or two for yourself or drop by the Phone Lad forums and help us do what little we can to turn the tide on these guys. Then you'll feel most welcome and right at home. The more the merrier and we can always do with more hands on deck Smile

_________________
Do you have a concern about ethics? Click here, then here and finally HERE!
Bush goat you will meat like a chicken. It will kill you in your house where you are going to die.
I owe you quite simply one of the definitive experiences of my life.
x 2 teeny part of a large effort Mortar x29 Nurse Nastys Audi TT x5
Trolling is usually symptomatic of bad character, mental problems or ugliness - RIP Jock_2009
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Julian Day
Master Baiter


Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 108


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

[quote="DevilsAdvocate"]
Quote:


Quote:
How about www.eatfecesladhuggers.org?

Uncalled for, as a lot of the other crap from people here.

I've been nothing but nice, and asked a couple of perfectly legit questions, (Especially concidering that what you are doing is illegal in several countries.) and you guys come out with defensive pissed off namecalling... talk about hitting a nerve.. Rolling Eyes

I'll return to lurking, god help it if a "newb" tries to add his 2c and step into the community, or even asks a difficult question. Shocked Rolling Eyes


Don't be silly, DevilsAdvocate, you're now just "throwing your toys out of the pram".

I'm a relative newbie, and I can see now that my first posts were pretty naive and stupid, but the senior guys here replied courteously and patiently, and I didn't feel put down at all.

I think that the difference was that I didn't barge in, full of my own importance, to try to preach my views and question what was being done here, when I didn't understand the full story.

I wouldn't expect to "step into a community" anywhere without observing normal courtesies.....and, at the same time, I find that people are usually pleased to answer questions in their own field, even the difficult ones---but, again, only if they are asked in a civil manner and for genuine reasons and interest.
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callum
Director of Press Relations


Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 3631
Location: On the run from the asylum and this seems like a good place to hide. Blend right in...


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Enough already and the necessary valid points have been made and opnions expressed, so let's get back to picking on the lads shall we?

Quick! Before the jackboots come clomping down the hallway... Wink

_________________
Do you have a concern about ethics? Click here, then here and finally HERE!
Bush goat you will meat like a chicken. It will kill you in your house where you are going to die.
I owe you quite simply one of the definitive experiences of my life.
x 2 teeny part of a large effort Mortar x29 Nurse Nastys Audi TT x5
Trolling is usually symptomatic of bad character, mental problems or ugliness - RIP Jock_2009
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Josh
Elite Baiter


Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: Nu Zilund


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^ Couldn't agree more. I think where we left off Ed was trying to contact the FBI - which of course turned out to be PDS.

I'm looking forward to hearing some of these phone calls that are coming up.

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Bengali in Platforms
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 04 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:33 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm a newbie (though I've been lurking since 2005) and on ethics I say you guys are 100% clean. Ed will never get as much pain as he deserves. I would not shed a single tear for his loss.

Now, to the Bahamas!
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Red
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Joined: 25 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Why is there a new ethics debate in here?

My suggestion, everytime someone posts "this has gone too far" or "what about the whales?" just IGNORE their post. Don't dignify it with a response and we won't have this thread filled with almost 2 pages of non-3d talk. Anyone who wants a new ethics thread can start one. Guys, just ignore it, don't bother responding and it will get no where.

For the record - DA if you don't like the bait, don't read it.

So back to the actual topic at hand, 3d, you have to send him to the bahamas... or maybe the bahamas via South Africa... all those mugu miles... Very Happy I'm getting excited just thinking about all the great reads we'll all have!

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callum
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Bahamas, sharks, diving with, hmmmmmmmm..... Twisted Evil

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Do you have a concern about ethics? Click here, then here and finally HERE!
Bush goat you will meat like a chicken. It will kill you in your house where you are going to die.
I owe you quite simply one of the definitive experiences of my life.
x 2 teeny part of a large effort Mortar x29 Nurse Nastys Audi TT x5
Trolling is usually symptomatic of bad character, mental problems or ugliness - RIP Jock_2009
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Red
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Joined: 25 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:06 am Reply with quoteBack to top

It's actually not fair in a sense... he gets all these wonderfully exotic holidays in tropical climes and we just get to read about them! Laughing

Then again... he stays in roach infested hostels and gets thoroughly abused by local authorities... but still... bahamas would be nice Very Happy

How hard is it to get a visa to russia? or one of the former satellite states, eg tajikistan...? i dont think he'd have a pleasant holiday there. Twisted Evil

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Josh
Elite Baiter


Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: Nu Zilund


PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:54 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Tajikistan in January sounds perfect.

Quote:
At Tajikistan's lower elevations, the average temperature range is 23 to 30 C in July and -1 to 3C in January. In the eastern Pamirs, the average July temperature is 5 to 10C, and the average January temperature is -15 to -20C.

(from http://countrystudies.us/tajikistan/15.htm )

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BeatlesMania
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Joined: 11 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

There seems to be something inherently wrong with sending Ed to the Bahamas (no, no, no, not ETHICALLY). How can a piece of trash like that enjoy an exotic vacationers' paradise? I LIKE Red's Russian idea. But, let's wait until January 'till he has to go. Twisted Evil Maybe to claim some Lithuanian assets???

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