Please be sensitive

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Not quite a Newb Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 65

This is soooo sad... please take the time to read and respond. He needs your help. And for my friend who wrote, if you have any plans of sending money, do it here, this site can use your support too.

Dear Cindy, you have my permission, I do have a gut feeling, but also a
feeling in my heart. I have invested so much time and money and have opened
my heart wide open. The money doesn't matter. Perhaps I am a fool, and their
laughing at me right now in Nigeria. Oh God am I sad right now

Hey my real name is Cindy. I have learned that is all I'll be giving out
>for
>awhile. Except my empathy for those who have gone through what we have. Can
>you tell me again where you met her online. I have someone who is willing
>to
>tie up my guys time and bust him. Because of deaths in the family, malaria
>and all the rest, how can I say the money I sent did not truely go for a
>good cause. I know now in my gut that this was a scam, but knowing and
>catching him in some of his lies, plus having his time tied up sounds to me
>like a good thing.
>Sincerely Cindy

Hi Cindy, well I met this woman on a site called Hot or Not.com. I don't
know if you have heard of it or not, but you put your picture on this site
and people rate it. I was just doing it for fun, didn't expect to meet
anyone there. A part of this site enables you to meet people. This woman
clicked on "meet me" Then I was notified that this person wanted to meet me,
I liked her picture and her profile, so I clicked yes I would like to meet
her too. Then we were able to send e-mails through the site....and the rest
is history.

I think I mentioned to you that I think it might be over....well it's not.
Today her manager (MR. Phillip) phoned me, from Nigeria, he told me that
Debbie was at the airport trying to finalize her ticket. He told me that he
had loaned her $500, but needed $350 more. I told him I can't help anymore,
I am broke and in debt. I later talked to Debbie online and told her the
same thing and I believed that it's over, there is nothing more I can do.
She won't let me give up and won't let me go. I am not 100% sure it is a
scam, I think I should be though, Mr Phillips name was on a scam site, and I
have never talked to this woman, except once for 10 seconds and the
reception was poor. I don't know, maybe this Mr. Phillip is scamming both of
us. Debbie told him that she is the mother of my children, and he asked me
today to confirm this. I am sorry for he long winded e-mail, but it helps to
talk it out, trying to figure this out in my head. I am really confused,
this is a real rollercoaster of emotions. I have sent her so much money,
paid her hospital bill, hotel, plane ticket. I have not told any friends or
family about this because of what they might think if they knew how much
money I sent over. They would say, why am I wasting my time and money on a
woman over the internet when there is so many local women out there. I
actually turned down a potentially caring and honest woman over this, and am
feeling quite bad about it now.

You mentioned you have friends who can bait your scammer, can you tell me
how you will go about this? Maybe I can do the same with Mr. Phillip

Sincerely

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:49 am

This happens way too often Twisted Evil

Susan, you have my email address. Please have your friend email me.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 7103 Location: Yes

Unfortunately, this scam is all too effective. Happens to men and women. Usually they bait the hook with weeks and months of romantic talk, then all of a sudden, an email comes from a brother or sister saying how your dear friend is in the hospital and can't pay the bills -- sometimes with realistic pictures. Then the requests for money start coming on strong. I've had a friend get hurt by this in a Russian scheme. He actually was sending emails around to his friends asking for help with her situation. It took about 4 of us to finally convince him that this was good money after bad. I'm not sure we ever truly persuaded him, but at least we stopped the bleeding.

Hang in there.

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:04 pm

I can honestly say I feel bad for this fellow. I used to think "how can people be so dumb"? After finding this site, I was amazed by the work people do here. And I do call it "work". Yes, it can be fun, and even a hobby. But we are actually helping people just by messing with the scammers. The people who fall for these scams are just ordinary people. Most are probably not computer savvy, and may be emotionally vulnerable. I almost fell for a scam myself. Not one over the internet, but one in real life.

[Sorry I removed the rest, but I think it served its purpose]

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 7103 Location: Yes

Your point(s) are well taken, Weirdo, but part of what you say misses the mark. Although I'm relatively new here, the point of this site is not to "understand" anyone, but to thwart every effort of those who choose the scamming lifestyle, and waste as much of their time as possible so that they can't direct their energies to those who might succumb.

You don't have to go to Africa to find otherwise good people reverting to a life of crime in order to make ends meet, or simply find revenge on those who they think don't deserve all that they have.

This site is not devoted exclusively to Nigerians, although they certainly make up the majority. There's ample evidence of Russians, Chinese, Middle Easterners, and (often with the love scams) Americans participating in taking away honest people's monies.

Your purpose in trying to convert these criminals is noble, and your goal is the same of everyone here, but the reasons why they do what they do is simply not at issue here.

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:35 pm

Your message is also well taken. I have only one true "point" in my message: just think about it. That's all I'm saying. Because susans post was about us feeling bad for the rich white guy who got cheated. I also feel bad for this guy. But let's look at the other side also. I am telling you about the poor black people who have a rough life.

The "true baiters" who want to waste the scammers' time, etc, thats all well and fine. All I'm saying is, before you do something like cash bait or ask for a pornographic image (which this board is against anyway), think about their situation.

I know the point of this board is not about helping scammers. I am glad for your post. You helped me to remind people of that, because I left that out.

My main point is this: before you do anything really "bad" to them, just think about it.

And if you ARE intersted in what I said about "friendly baiting", which I guess is really not baiting, just let me know. Otherwise, I will continue to do it alone.

Otherwise, continue baiting, wasting their time, etc. and have fun.

Cheers.

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:53 pm

@Weirdocatcher

Once you've had a few romance baits under your belt you'll see things in a different light. I'm not going to argue with you or try to tell you why. I'll leave that up to you to find out in your own time. Just remember I said this to you when you see the romance scammers as the cold, calculated money obsessed scum they are

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

@Weirdocatcher
I disagree with practically everything you posted.
-I don't need to imagine any 'pity the poor thief' scenarios. You can rationalize if you want, but fraud is fraud, regardless of a thief's reasons for stealing from somebody else.
-Several of your comments (or even complete paragraphs) barley skirt the edge of racism.
-This website is not aimed at one specific country.
-Your claim to be the first Christian baiter is pretentious at best and insulting at worst.
-You've been a member here for 11 days and you take it upon yourself to tell us where we're misinformed?
Good luck with your project, though.

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:17 pm

Let me stop this before it starts: I get your point. Anyone who posts will probably agree with you. I know these scammers are lousy, what they do is shitty. I am doing a few baits right now and I am still grappling with what side of the fence I am on. I agree we can help would-be victims, and even have some fun with it. I used to do the very same thing in Africa. People would approach me on the street and ask me for help. Directions, etc. Then they, or a friend would try to rob me. Sometimes I even "baited" them. I would play along and pretend to be helping them, waiting for their next move. So if they wanted to rob me(I am not a small man), I knew I could defend myself. Then I would tell them to stop doing this. I would also approach foreigners on the street when I saw someone following them. I would tell the foreigners to be careful. The criminals will follow you for a good many blocks before they rob you. And newcomers will not know how to spot this. These criminals are clever, in real-life and over the net. I know most people don't care about all this.

I agree the people are bad. I agree it is not good to manipulate someone's emotions to help you or your family, no matter how bad your situation might be. Becuase they have done it to me. It felt lousy.

But when someone (susan) posts a message like "please be sensitive...etc..a guy lost money..etc", I am forced to critically examine both sides of it. Actually this could go on and on. I think I will remove my post. Because I know that is not the point of this board.

Actually, I am not going to reply to any more mesages telling me I am "wrong", etc. It is too hard to convey this over a message. There is no way I am "wrong". Because what I said was simply "think about it". But maybe I am wrong. It is painful to think. Maybe we should not think. And I know most people here do not want to read a message like the one I wrote. I am not trying to tell anyone to stop baiting. I still don't have mercy for the scammers. If it was up to me, they would all go to jail and serve out their sentences.

I am just saying, if someone asks me to "be sensitive", I can do that. But when I am "being sensitive", I must consider both sides.

That's it for me. I am done posting unless someone wants to contribute to what I said. If you want to argue, or flame me, it misses the point.

And this is a slippery slope. We all know most criminals have had difficult lives. That does not excuse their crimes. They will pay for them one way or another, this life or after-life.

Oh and my "claim" to be the first Chrisitan: notice I put the word in quotes. That was to convey the point that I was the first to declare it on the forum that I am. And even then I used the word "maybe". Maybe I did not do such a good job of conveying this. Here is my quote:

Quote:

Oh yeah and I think maybe I�m the first �Christian� baiter here.

That is not a "claim". What I meant was I am the FIRST PERSON here to SAY that I am Chrsitian. Maybe I am wrong, maybe somoene in another thread *did* mention they were Chrisitan. But even then, notice again I used the word "maybe". What I meant is most people do not think about this from a Chrisitan standpoint. Even if you are a Christian, then good for you. And even if *almost* everyone here is a Chrisitian, sometimes it's ok to have another Chrisitan point it out. And this is true: Anyone who claims to be offended by my "claim", if in fact were Chrisitian, would not disagree with me.

I am done here. Good luck to you all.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 65

Weirdo I get the fact that their are the poor and the rich, the good word says we will have them with us always. Some how I get the feeling that you think that those of us who have money and have given with our hearts are ignorant, nieve, stupid, lonely or lost. Speaking for myself, I was just a little uneducated in the motives of these people and was vulneralble in ever thinking that what my good pastor's "online lieing lover" intentions truely were and still are a whole year later. He still continues to say he believes that our lives together are the divine will of God Almighty. Would you suggest as a more educated woman in the matters of baiting that I help out this poor sole by sending just a little more cash so that the good Lords work can continue? Perhaps prayer for him is the answer,(and believe me when I say I do) I should look the other way in my shame, and let him go on to the next victim?

Lets look at this senario. You are IN LOVE. This person shares and values the same things in life you do, they honour, family, faith, work ethics, Then this person you are in love with dies. Have you ever loved someone who has died? I left this out.... before the person dies, you've contributed to their welfare All your financial resouces. And then it is not hard enough that this person is in hospital fighting for their life, but you find out that before there death or in their dieing state they were never in love with you at all. I guess it is ok though cause Suzy got a new cell phone and lease on life to be reserected for the next kill. I only asked that you be sensitive to this man because in his heart he still cares for this women and is having a hard time believing that her real name is mugu.

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:02 pm

Susan, I agree with everything you said. I hope I did not come off as saying anything bad about you or the guy involved. That was not my intention. All I want to say is that I have been there. I too, wanted to help people in any way I could. And I do so, without giving them money, etc. I would definitely say, NEVER give money to ANYONE you have not met PERIOD. And even if you HAD met them, I would still say DO NOT give money to [Africans] unless you are 100% sure about it. But to those who are ignorant to this scheme, I extend my sympathy. Also I can give advice. I am not trying to say I am better than anyone. If I was, I wouldn't be a baiter myself.

I am thinking about removing my post, but maybe keeping it there can get people thinking. Thinking can be painful.

I will also pray for you and your friend.

Oh yeah, and I know I said I would not reply to anyone. I only replied to susan because she sent me a pm and seemed honestly interested in my opinions.

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:41 pm

Just a note here: 419eater is not, to my knowledge, set up to be a victim support site for victims of romance scams. This site specializes in scambaiting, teaching scambaiting, and giving scambaiters a place to share information and learn from each other.

Many of the posts on this thread seem to me to be pleas for support of the victims of romance scammers, or re-telling of scam stories, all things that seem better suited to a support site.

May I suggest that a site set up for this purpose, expressly, is www.internet-love-scams.org.

The community there can help with the issues associated with being a victim of this type crime. Internet-love-scams.org is not a baiting site, but it is a good victim support site.

Without being too presumptious, I personally don't think it's a good idea for victims of these scams to attempt to bait their own scammers. There are too many emotions involved, for one thing, and for another thing it is difficult for those victims to bait these particular scammers safely. This is because the scammer is likely to know the victim's personal information, their writing style, etc, i.e. enough information to make baiting them dangerous.

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:47 pm

Yes this forum is primarily for the baiting of love scammers and is not the right place for victim support.

However, I do have a lot of experience dealing with victims and I am more than happy to have them posting here for guidance etc.
I have included a note in the sticky for vics to pm me.

I agree that baiting a love scammer is probably not the best thing for a victim to do. Being able to participate in the discussions here, is not a bad idea at all.

Please check your pms Pendragon.... Smile

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:02 pm

Weirdocatcher wrote:

I
...
I will NEVER send you any money, so if that is what you want, look elsewhere.
...

Weirdocatcher. Take the quoted part (above) out. If they keep coming back to you then you can keep them busy at not doing evil. Besides it may take some of them some time to start to change. Meanwhile you can keep praying for them, keep encouraging them to do good and not evil, and keep reaching out to the person behind the mask. As long as you are engaging them, you will be diverting them from their dishonorable occupations and thus operating entirely within the spirit (if not the fashion) of this site.

And a genuine repentence, though ever so difficult to authenticate, is a better trophy even than an arrest.

best regards,

Tim Tencast

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:23 pm

The problem with trying to persuade lads to repent and turn over a new leaf is - as we've seen many many times before here - they claim to be converted, but if you bait them from a different address they'll try to scam you just like always.

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:02 pm

@wayneRBW,

... Then they didn't actually repent. Even when I fail in my spiritual outreach I am being successful in my baiting modality. Whether they actually turn over a new leaf or not is between them and God. But as long as they're talking to me, they're spending their time talking to someone who's not going to send them any money which is what this organization is all about.

Out of a thousand lads I would hope for maybe one genuine change, fifty who experience some feelings of guilt and self doubt, and a couple hundred or so who would say "hallelujah brother I have seen the light thank you for rescuing me from that filthy pit of wickedness please send me 1000 dollars so that I can come to America".

best regards,

Tim Tencast

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:02 pm

I am beginning to think I was wrong to post the first message argument regarding "think about them". I realize they are truly heartless (romance scammers). I believe they are worse than 419ers, but they are all scum. I like to try and think about things from both sides, but I now realize this is not a philosphical forum.

And posters like the one who originially asked for assistance need kind of to be pointed in the right direction. Not someone like me who appears to be insensitive to them.

Wish I could reach them [scammers] in person and give them what they deserve...

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:01 pm

Don't misunderstand me, I'm glad you've come here all fired up and willing to take on the world. What you'll find out over time though is that the lads don't want to change. All they see is the money and they'll say anything to you to try to get it off you. It doesn't take too long for you to come immune to what they say. When I did my first phone lad I gave him dozens of chances to back off. I told him that if the deal got messed up I'd lose my job and that would be so bad I'd end up killing myself (my character was very highly strung). What do you think he said to me? "Don't worry, I wouldn't do anything to risk your job". He was perfectly happy to knowingly lose me my job and possibly drive me to suicide. Romance scammers go straight for the heart, and they're just as happy to rip it out for your money.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 7103 Location: Yes

One of the roles I play is how I've lost my job and I need this money desperately for my family as we are about to lose my house...

He just tells me not to worry and to trust him. At that point, any reservations I might have had fly out the window....

Not quite a Newb Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 65

@jmrazor
the truth is I did loose my job, my house and my car. Not just because I sent him a few thousand dollars over the course of a year, but because I thought I must have been insane. What did he have to say to all that was happening to me. Hence my signature......

Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:02 pm

sorry have not read all the above posts however.......

Quote:

Debbie told him that she is the mother of my children,

and you have only spoken to her on the phone once for 10 seconds?

did i miss something in Sex Ed at school?

and you wonder if you are being scammed? FFS.

Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:20 pm

Did you read the thread title at least? It says "please be sensitive" and I doubt that "and you wonder if you are being scammed? FFS" fits that description.

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:47 pm

"Be sensitive", eh?

Master Baiter Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Posts: 228

I've had "you are the mother of my children", "you are my husband", "my beautiful wife" blah blah. Not all in the same bait obviously Wink

. They like to use the future-present tense to seem like these things are inevitable.

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:34 pm

tencast wrote:

And a genuine repentence, though ever so difficult to authenticate, is a better trophy even than an arrest.

best regards,

Tim Tencast

@Tim

Not to throw too much cold water on your theory, but in fact, most Nigerian scammers are already devout, practicing Christians. They go to church every Sunday, pray for each other, throw "God bless you's" around like confetti, and in their communications to each other and to many of their victims, are very righteous.

They truly think they are doing the Lords work by scamming rich Americans and Europeans. They don't see what they're doing as evil, they see it as a job, pure and simple. The fact that they're lying and breaking all kinds of commandments on a daily basis doesn't phase them, they think they have a pass from above because they've been exploited in the past by foreign whites.

Schizophrenic? Heck yes! But they've adapted the religion to their own purposes, just like every culture does.

So, if you're waiting for any of them to "repent" and go straight, don't hold your breath. They already think they're right with God.