Turd 7, MIA, still

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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:36 pm

Yes. Not knowing is hard. i doubt he twigged, or I would have gotten a lengthy email threatening death and bemoaning how he is a nice guy and likes orphans... or something. He sent me two passports. One was Ghanaian, a fake, and the other was Nigerian, which he renewed under the same name. I also have his moms address and phone number, which he gave as a "next of kin". So we know who he is, where he lives. We just do not know where he is.

I suppose the next step might be to contact his mother. I would prefer to keep her out of this.

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:52 am

As an ITP, I don't think contacting her would serve any purpose or be in conformity with the TOS. Good call, DSW.

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:43 am

Surely a concerned 'client' could call her to ask her where he is??
"I havent heard from him in a while and I have his money here for him"

Baiting Guru Joined: 10 Oct 2010 Posts: 3877

^^^^

"a concerned client"?

there is a special one: "hello, my name is gary coles, I'm a friend of turd, but haven't heard anything about him lately".

Baiting Guru Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 5727

FYI, there is a movie titled "Gods of Egypt" set to be released soon. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2404233/?ref_=nv_sr_1

Hell, maybe you could convince Shorty that this movie is based on his script, and the evil broker has stolen his script money.

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:07 pm

Hectors mother is definitely an ITP at this point, so the question is whether calling her and asking if she knows where he is would constitute a violation of ITP guidelines. Personally, I would say it does not. It's just putting feelers out. No need to ask her to pass on any messages or otherwise involve herself, just a general "hey I'm an online friend of Hector, where is he these days?" Just say your name is....Nick maybe? Baba? Bernie? Smile

But hey, DSW is Turds Guardian Angel and the mind behind what I consider the greatest bait in Eater history. His judgement is by definition the right decision. Wink

Edited to add: And the Mods at Eater rule! What they say too!

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:11 pm

I disagree.

His mother may have had the bad news that he is dead and someone contacting her as a "friend" and enquiring about him may cause her upset.

Far better to leave her out of it all together.

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:15 pm

Capone wrote:

As an ITP, I don't think contacting her would serve any purpose or be in conformity with the TOS. Good call, DSW.

This.

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 577

My recollection is the ITP rule was created to prohibit direct ITP involvement in the bait.

Hector's mother doesn't fall into that category.

To extend the logic it does apply means contacting embassies is also a violation, as would hotels to inquire about reservations, etc. etc.

The intent must be narrowly defined.

Just my 2 cents.

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:46 pm

Well, to be fair, I don't think contacting Embassies, hotels etc. would violate the rule because responding to questions about issues pertaining to their jobs falls within their normal daily duties, so it's not effecting them in anything they wouldn't otherwise be doing. The question is whether asking his mother about him crosses the "involvement," line.

It's a muddy line for sure, which is obvious looking over the many, many baits throughout eater's history. I guess ultimately it's all case by case.

In any event, it's up to the mods and DSW and while I've given my two cents I fully respect and support the decision one way or another.

Go Eater!

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:06 pm

His mother is an ITP. As far as I know she is not involved in advance fee fraud and her only involvement in this case is the fact that she gave birth to Turd. That alone should not call for her to be involved in the bait regardless of how bad anyone wants to know his whereabouts. With the current information we have Turd's mother is the very definition of an ITP and the type of person the rule was invented to protect.

With this said, I would like the moderators here to create a better working rule as far as ITP's. As it is the rule is extremely subjective and before any mod comments that it is not, the fact that we are having this discussion proves otherwise. This is the rule for ITP's on this site:

Quote:

We do not involve innocent third parties (ITPs) in our baits. This means any real person or entity, regardless of your opinion of them, who has not consented to be involved in your bait. You may use contact information of confirmed advance fee fraud scammers such as we bait here, but do not use contact information for any other third party, including, but not limited to: police departments or other law enforcement agenies, hotline phone numbers, telemarketing companies, shady mortgage brokers, etc.

It is simultaneously under-inclusive and vague. As written, it prevents contacting police to report a current or potential crime. It also prevents calling a bank to report fraud or use of a hotline that has been specifically created to report such fraud. Secondly, the word consent is ill defined.

I would be happy to draft a working rule for this with examples and submit it to a mod for review and possible amendment, but with that said I will say that I appreciate the existence of the rule and whole-hardheartedly agree with it, I just want a better worded rule that will help a baiter in practical situations.

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:09 pm

Rover wrote:

We do not involve innocent third parties (ITPs) in our baits. This means any real person or entity, regardless of your opinion of them, who has not consented to be involved in your bait. You may use contact information of confirmed advance fee fraud scammers such as we bait here, but do not use contact information for any other third party, including, but not limited to: police departments or other law enforcement agenies, hotline phone numbers, telemarketing companies, shady mortgage brokers, etc.

Quote:

To extend the logic it does apply means contacting embassies is also a violation, as would hotels to inquire about reservations, etc. etc.

The intent must be narrowly defined.

It is.

You shouldn't be contacting embassies, hotels, taxi drivers, etc., disrupting their normal course of business. If a lad has them contact you, that ITP has consented to make the contact. However, it does not give you free reign to call them back.

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:29 pm

Bware, would the rule prevent me from contacting law enforcement to report a crime that the lad is committing? According to the rule it would, but that cannot be the intent of the rule. Nor should it be the intent of the rule to report an individual who is applying for a visa in order to commit a crime. These agencies encourage such reporting as it prevents criminal activity.

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:32 pm

The mention of law enforcement, etc. in the rules appears to specifically refer to using those agency's contact details to give to your scammer. For example giving a fake cheque scammer the address of your local PD or a phone scammer the number of a dodgy double glazing company.

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:52 pm

^^^That.

Quote:

As it is the rule is extremely subjective and before any mod comments that it is not, the fact that we are having this discussion proves otherwise.

We are not having a discussion. She is an ITP. Rules are specific or vague for reasons. Seems to me it has always been that way. I like Duckling's advice to his mentees:

USE. COMMON. SENSE!

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:53 pm

modokmind I think bware answered your question before you asked it with this:

Quote:

…disrupting their normal course of business…

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:19 pm

On December 15th, Turd wrote:

Quote:

hi.
we have a problen.
Testyupid agent confirimed my ticket to be thursday next weeek i did not told him to do so, th inatriction i gve him was that i am travelin tomorrow.
#but the ticket gave he issue is for thursday next weeek. i hD A SERIUOS FIGHT WITH HIMM BECUSE I TOLD HIM BEFORE, the said he he will try and chang me tomottow, i am not sure if it will be posiblto change of not.
M

So that's 59 days of constipation, (Turd free Smile

)right? Whatever happened to him, it's bad.

I don't miss him. I miss his misery.

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 24 Dec 2012 Posts: 699

anyone know how to reach Just Jane?

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:55 pm

bware419ers wrote:

USE. COMMON. SENSE!

Wow. Flashback.

And I was so close to being able to venture down the produce aisle at the supermarket.

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:14 am

And the waiting continues.

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:03 pm

Have you researched what the punishment is for overstaying a Visa?
or trying to illegally enter Egypt/India wherever he is going? it could give some sort of indicate as to when he might resurface.

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:34 pm

Modokmind wrote:

...Nor should it be the intent of the rule to report an individual who is applying for a visa in order to commit a crime. These agencies encourage such reporting as it prevents criminal activity.

Agreed; as they encourage such contact, consent is implicit in these cases, provided your contact is useful enough to them to use your information in making a decision. Irrelevant accusations and evidential bits and bobs are not good material. It needs to be solid. That's why it's so difficult to can these guys.

If it comes to it, it's a judgement call, but using your judgement doesn't mean you have free reign over what you do. If you are talking to a PD or borders agency to tip them off and effect a sound, legitimate arrest, fine. If you are contacting a bank (via Eater) to tell them of a compromised account, fine. If you are calling an old lady who probably misses her mad son, and who will not enjoy the call one bit, nor benefit from it in any way - Not fine. not fine at all.

While you're using your judgement, consider if the contact - by whatever means - will be considered unsolicited, unhelpful and unwanted by the person contacted. If there's any hint that this may be the case, you shouldn't do it. If there's any doubt, don't do it.

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:54 pm

To pass the time waiting for the Turd to resurface in the toilet bowl I've been re-reading some of his old adventures. Such an amazing bait. One of the things that cracks me up to no end is how people continued to accuse him of the Liberia massacre despite all his denials. I especially love it when Bernie drops mentions of "what you did in Liberia," when he of all people knew perfectly well that Turd wasn't at the camp during the fictional crime.

But really, it can't be said enough that this has been the most amazing baits in Eater history. Hats off to you DSW, and any of the other Team Hector baiters who may be reading this.

Edited to add: By the way, it would be great if, when Turd returns, he gets an email from some inspector or another who found a copy of the Philios passport inside a shipping container with two brutally mutilated corpses.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 06 Jan 2014 Posts: 32

Maybe he has ended up on some kind of work, Dubai would attract workers and enslave them, in the traditional sense or in the neoliberal.

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:06 am

^^ Doubtful. Workers are hired beforehand, get worker visas and mostly come from China, India and Southeast Asia. Turd was going on a tourist visa for like a few days (or weeks, I don't remember). Plus that lazy little poopstain would never consider getting honest work.