scam stats and scambaiting stats

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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:01 pm

A Gihungous Atta Boy to Duckling!

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

scamstats wrote:

Maybe I exaggerated

Thank you for your honesty - it will serve you much better than bragging. Wink

Quote:

The goal as I see it is to get as many people as possible to waste as much time of as many lads as possible. People here can really dig in deep on an individual lad, but what if there was a way to broaden the scope? More people engaging more lads. That's got to be a good thing right?

We all bait or fight fraud differently - some dig deep on one lad, some bait tons of lads. There's also the work we do at ScamWarners, AntiFraud News, Scamtracker, reporting fake sites, bank accounts, etc.

More people engaging more lads is a goal, always, along with using the humor of our work here at Eater and our excellent info at ScamWarners to educate the general public, thus preventing victims.

People getting paid to do this isn't the answer - publicizing baiting and scams is. Want to throw some money at the problem? Education of all, potential victims and government agencies, is key. As you can see, your proposal for paid scambaiters isn't well-received here.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:03 pm

scamstats wrote:

People here can really dig in deep on an individual lad

Right now, I've got 30 or so lads on the hook - every one of them will be fully documented on Scamwarners and a large number of them will end up losing bank accounts/websites/credit cards/victims - that takes me a couple of hours a day. I don't need to "dig in deep" - I've already caused enough damage to those 30 lads.

scamstats wrote:

but what if there was a way to broaden the scope? More people engaging more lads. That's got to be a good thing right?

What motivation is there for me to get paid to spend more time baiting and what motivation (i.e. profit) is there for the "employer".

Not quite a Newb Joined: 28 Feb 2015 Posts: 22

Duckling wrote:

scamstats wrote:

If some people waste a lads time for a trophy or for the "atta boy" of their fellow scambaiters that's great. But isn't it also good if some people do the same thing because they get a little extra cash for their efforts?

I for one don't want such people here any more than I want racist pricks who bait lads because of their skin colors.

Well, nobody want's racist pricks (aside from possibly racist pricks).

This is a place for the REAL scambaiters. This is a place for people who are dedicated to their craft. The people who might engage in scambaiting only if they were paid for their scambaiting efforts would obviously be working over on the other side of the river.

But I think if you view scambaiting as something that can ONLY be done by people who aren't paid for their efforts, then I think you are missing the possibility of engaging a LOT more people in the common good. Which if I am not mistaken is wasting the lads time so that he can't scam a real victim.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

The minute you introduce money, you attract greed - anyone looking for shortcuts to the payday . . . scammers themselves.

We're only interested in "real scambaiting". Wink

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:21 pm

scamstats wrote:

But I think if you view scambaiting as something that can ONLY be done by people who aren't paid for their efforts, then I think you are missing the possibility of engaging a LOT more people in the common good. Which if I am not mistaken is wasting the lads time so that he can't scam a real victim.

I view scambaiting as something that can and should only be done by people who want to scambait.

In short, what Ima said.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:21 pm

Quote:

People here can really dig in deep on an individual lad, but what if there was a way to broaden the scope?

I'm sorry, but this comes across as an assumption we all either bait only one lad at a time, or everyone is involved in a mass bait. Some members bait hundreds of lads at a time. Posting each and every interaction would be boring and take too much of our time. The impact we have is much more than is presented.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 28 Feb 2015 Posts: 22

B8er wrote:

What motivation is there for me to get paid to spend more time baiting and what motivation (i.e. profit) is there for the "employer".

There probably isn't any motivation for you to be paid to scambait. You probably wouldn't want to get paid to do what you do. I completely understand that and I have the utmost respect for that. But what if there were a lot of other people who were like you in that they wanted to do something to help stop the scammers, but who would only do it for a little bit of cash?

The "employer" is motivated to try and put a dent in the scamming enterprise by making it economically less profitable by wasting the lads time. Many employers have projects that they feel are worth their efforts despite little return to their bottom line.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 28 Feb 2015 Posts: 22

bware419ers wrote:

Quote:

People here can really dig in deep on an individual lad, but what if there was a way to broaden the scope?

I'm sorry, but this comes across as an assumption we all either bait only one lad at a time, or everyone is involved in a mass bait. Some members bait hundreds of lads at a time. Posting each and every interaction would be boring and take too much of our time. The impact we have is much more than is presented.

I didn't mean to imply that. I completely understand that most people who are serious into scambaiting engage more than one lad at a time, and I fully believe that the impact is much more than is presented.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:25 pm

scamstats wrote:

But what if there were a lot of other people who were like you in that they wanted to do something to help stop the scammers, but who would only do it for a little bit of cash?

Ima has already covered that - if they wanted to do something then they would do it out of charity. Wanting to be paid in my opinion just makes them greedy and wanting to profit for other people's misfortune.

scamstats wrote:

The "employer" is motivated to try and put a dent in the scamming enterprise by making it economically less profitable by wasting the lads time. Many employers have projects that they feel are worth their efforts despite little return to their bottom line.

There's is a big difference between "little" return and "no" return, or are you planning on selling it to these "employers" that they are going to make money out of scambaiting?

Not quite a Newb Joined: 28 Feb 2015 Posts: 22

Duckling wrote:

I view scambaiting as something that can and should only be done by people who want to scambait.

I don't think wanting to do something, and being paid to do it, are necessarily mutually exclusive. But I respect your position that you don't think people should be paid to engage in scambaiting.

I agree that wanting to do something and being paid to do it can be or become mutually exclusive. I agree that often if you do something that you like - and then you get paid for it - that it can then begin to lose it's appeal.

I also agree that once you start paying people to do something you can get all kinds of unintended consequences (like people trying to cheat the system etcetera).

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:32 pm

But its not the businesses who pay the price for these scammers its their victims.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:34 pm

scamstats wrote:

I also agree that once you start paying people to do something you can get all kinds of unintended consequences (like people trying to cheat the system etcetera).

So, you actually agree with us all then, that your idea is a load of poorly thought out nonsense.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:35 pm

So if I'm a victim of a romance scam and have just lost my life savings, on the verge of losing my house and I hear about this get paid to take revenge opportunity, would I make a good candidate for employment?

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:36 pm

@bware419ers- Would we paid by Western Union or Moneygram?

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

scamstats wrote:

I also agree that once you start paying people to do something you can get all kinds of unintended consequences (like people trying to cheat the system etcetera).

This is what I was addressing in my earlier post. The minute you add money, you invite greed and corruption. The ethics become murky. I'm not sure that you understand enough of the big picture to really understand the point we're all trying to make.

Stick around, read a lot, and bait some more. Get involved in our other activities (for free!) and you'll get there.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:38 pm

Want to get paid scambaiting? Get a job such as a hotel administrator or maybe fireman, bait, while there is nothing to do and voila! Get your monthly pay, which is partly for scambaiting by bank transfer as salary.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:39 pm

Bank to bank transfer. Always.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:39 pm

scamstats wrote:

I don't think wanting to do something, and being paid to do it, are necessarily mutually exclusive.

Alright. It has been a while and I'm on an academic mood here, so let's for a moment suppose we would have someone agree to funding scambaiting. Then what happens?

How is the information being distributed? We are not exactly well known now either. Is the employer party also going to take care of advertising this great opportunity and if yes, how much influence do we, the baiters have in saying how our work is being advertised to potential new employees?

Who decides our ethics and norms, and if a conflict arises, does the funding end?

How do we measure the work in relation to the payment? Is is enough that I have an account in Eater? I'm a mentor mostly. Do I get paid per each graduating mentee? Does B8er get paid more or less per reported bank account?

How are the payments handled in a virtual world wide community such as this? By what laws and taxation do we go?

If payments are being made, then real life accounts are also needed. How do we guard the identity of baiters?

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:42 pm

bware419ers wrote:

Bank to bank transfer. Always.

You're hired. If you can just give me your account details (or those of a random other person who you want to receive the money) in this handy format, that would be great.

ACCOUNT HOLDER NAME:
BANK NAME:
ADDRESS:
BANK SWIFT CODE:
ACCOUNT NUMBER:
SORT CODE/ROUTING NUMBER:
IBAN CODE OF THE BANK:

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:43 pm

@ bware419ers- make sure you send them the mtcn and payment slip first then they'll send you your wage, only problem is it will be a in a trunkbox and the security company need a fee before the diplomat can bring it to the airport.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:50 pm

I've just been eavesdropping at the boardroom door of "Mugu Baiting Corp International" and heard this

Quote:

With funding, we can globally e-enable team driven baiting chains and proactively enhance vertical safari vectors, whilst efficiently supplying interactive script-driven models and intrinsically synthesizing adaptive victims.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:53 pm

@B8er that sounds like an AGM statement

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:13 pm

I have had many jobs and I always say it's a shame I don't get paid for this because it's the one I've liked best.... but that's a throwaway joke !

I'm sorry. I would have preferred some plain talking from you. Now, if you are getting people to fund it, what stats will you give them? The 'I've sent many on Safaris'... or the 'I've tried to send a few'. You see what I mean there is a thousand miles between those statements.

Maybe post some of your baits on here. Let us see what you do. Stats.... 'How any spoonfuls of water in the Atlantic Ocean'.... a lot and there are more falling in every day.

Quote:

So if I'm a victim of a romance scam and have just lost my life savings, on the verge of losing my house and I hear about this get paid to take revenge opportunity, would I make a good candidate for employment?

Thanks bware419ers you said it better than I could.

It's not simple. Lord knows everyone posting here have had to put me right may times and I know they will have to in the future. If you are paid
for it, is there a training course?Honestly. Lads and baits just can't be confined into a number. I am so sure nothing better will come of it being paid for. Honestly, read baits and safaris on here.... do you really think they would be any better if the baiters were paid. Emphatically no.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 28 Feb 2015 Posts: 22

Duckling wrote:

Alright. It has been a while and I'm on an academic mood here, so let's for a moment suppose we would have someone agree to funding scambaiting. Then what happens?

Well, lets say that we have a way to measure how much of a specific scammer's time has been wasted by a specific scambaiter. We can then pay the scambaiter based on that measure.

I am not proposing this as some kind of add-on to 419eater whereby the scambaiters here can get paid for their efforts. I think THAT would be TOTALLY inappropriate.

Pretend there is another web site across the river. Scambaiters go there only if they want to, and they set up an account there. Then they pick a scammer to scambait. The system tracks how much of the scammers time was wasted by the scambaiter. The scambaiter gets paid based on that.

The above is not actually that difficult to set up. Of course the scambaiter can only get paid for efforts that the system can track, and the system can't track every possible activity that the scambaiter might engage in. But it could potentially be one small part of the scambaiting effort.

I don't know about the legalities of paying people in terms of taxes and in other countries. I haven't really thought much about that. I've been working more on the technical aspects and on how to justify the process to someone who might be willing to fund it.

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