Old scam for sign companies - old scam in general...

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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:32 pm

I am new to the forum, but I am glad I found it. I have been toying with these a-holes for years but never knew there was a forum for it (I should have known).
Here is my latest that has been going on for two weeks. Forgive me if this has been described before, but I have not seen it anywhere but the sign forums.

Original email:

Quote:

Dear Customer,
This is Robson Page and i will like to purchase some banners from your shop.Here are the description:

Description................... white vinyl material with Grommets and Hemmed at each corner,and a lettering.Outdoor use.
Text on banner................ "NOW ON SPECIAL SALES IN FAVOR" in Blue Ink.
Sizes.............................24"x60"
Quantity........................ 70pieces

I would like this order to be pickup upon complete from your shop.If you cannot have it within 14 working days in your shop for pickup, please notify me immediately.Get back to me with the total price of the banners.Do you accept credit cards?
Thank you,

Name: Robson Page
Address: 425 box butte ave,alliance NE 69301[/i]

I took his order order, took his credit card number and told him it all went through fine; of course I was lying. The scam is that he prepays for packaging and shipping with the a stolen credit card, then I send a "money gram" to the shippir in Ghana. Weeks later I would find out the CC# he gave me is worthless and so I would be out the cost of the shipping, plus the cost of the banners which would never be picked up. Of course, I never made anything.

I have had him calling me 15 times a day for 2 weeks. He asks for the money gram number, I give him a fake number. he then calls me back asking for the number again. Then the shipper calls and he asks me to confirm the number. Then I play dumb and say "oh I gave you the wrong number" and the fun starts all over. I have asked him to call me a a specific time, only to tell him it was not a good time. It's fun for sure.

The good news is that I did contact Visa who confirmed it is a stolen #. I gave them my number and the real owners called to thank me for alerting them. I also contacted the secret service in georgia (the origin of the phone he gave me) and they said it may be a track phone (I am not sure how this part works).

Today he started saying "I think you are playing a game with me" and he tells me that he doesn't understand why my fax and scanner are not working, etc. I tried getting him to give me his address so that I can overnight the moneygram, but he had some lame excuse as to why that would not work. I assured him I was not joking around which might buy me a few more days.

Where should I take it now? I was thinking of sending him one more email with a link to what he would think was the money gram document. it would really be a Rick-roll. I am open to suggestions though.

thanks for listening.[/quote]

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:41 am

He questioned your motives? I'd get really mad at him and accuse him of not being serious.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 05 Jan 2012 Posts: 38

Has he tried Security Shield? Twisted Evil

http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=156923

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:27 am

Hi there ricobico,

welcome to the forum.

If you PM a moderator with the CC infors you will then be able to claim a black piggy for your signature. (and have the card cancelled)

Are you baiting safe? Read details here: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=118738

Sign up for a handy-dandy mentor here: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/cherrie_mentor_program.php

Do you care to share the header info of the scam mail and the lad's details? (making sure to blank out your baiter address before posting)

Info how to obtain headers can be found here: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137846

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

Welcome ricobico! Very Happy

As piecrust said, you can send credit card numbers to moderators - we have a contact to send them to so that the cards are frozen and card holders notified.

This scam targets anyone doing business online. We have an overview of the scam on our sister site, ScamWarners.com. The topic is here: http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=23020

Please note that if the scammer contacted you at your business and you replied from your real account, you're not baiting safely. We encourage baiters to use all fake information when corresponding with scammers. You can still bait the emails sent to your real account, just respond to them from an account set up with an alias. You can make up a fake company name to reply to him as if you received his initial email there. They won't notice - they spam their scam format out to tons of people.
Drop contact with him from your real account.

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:21 pm

Thanks for the replies. I read through the links and they are helpful, but I really don't understand the risks involved, I guess. Is the fear that he will show up at my door? Please enlighten me.

#1 he contacted the business I work for and I have the blessing of the owner to toy with this guy.

#2 I am using a ridiculously fake name from a well known movie. If he googled it, he would probably know I was messing with him.

#3 IPtracker shows my IP address located about 60 miles away from where I really am.

#4 I haven't given this guy any real information.

#5 The address he has for the business is where it was 3 years ago.

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:27 pm

Hi, Rico

Welcome Smile

I'm fond of the ^^ above mentioned method of having them claim money. If that doesn't work (over & over & over) - tell him you need to get this card # billed - you'll ship it yourself. By that time, of course, the card will have been "reported stolen" & the fun repeats.

V/MC - ok - but I truly love Amex when reporting a stolen card #. By far superior fraud protection for their customer.

TracFone is a 25c a minute call Wink

Have fun burning his time. Having to put him on hold must drive him wild. If your lad is out of the country, I'm thinking it's a GoPhone / at&t product. So far, at&t is the only one I've found that allows me to use it where ever the big bird drops me. What do the e-mail headers say ?

Props on saving your boss a charge back.

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:47 pm

piecrust wrote:

Hi there ricobico,

welcome to the forum.

If you PM a moderator with the CC infors you will then be able to claim a black piggy for your signature. (and have the card cancelled)

Are you baiting safe? Read details here: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=118738

Sign up for a handy-dandy mentor here: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/cherrie_mentor_program.php

Do you care to share the header info of the scam mail and the lad's details? (making sure to blank out your baiter address before posting)

Info how to obtain headers can be found here: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137846

credit card is already cancelled.

Header shows Ghana.
Country Fraud Profile: High

Jeez, I thought Ghana seemed like such a great place!

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:55 pm

MuzunguTheHuntress wrote:

Hi, Rico

Welcome Smile

I'm fond of the ^^ above mentioned method of having them claim money. If that doesn't work (over & over & over) - tell him you need to get this card # billed - you'll ship it yourself. By that time, of course, the card will have been "reported stolen" & the fun repeats.

V/MC - ok - but I truly love Amex when reporting a stolen card #. By far superior fraud protection for their customer.

TracFone is a 25c a minute call Wink

Have fun burning his time. Having to put him on hold must drive him wild. If your lad is out of the country, I'm thinking it's a GoPhone / at&t product. So far, at&t is the only one I've found that allows me to use it where ever the big bird drops me. What do the e-mail headers say ?

Props on saving your boss a charge back.

Yes, Visa was awful. Googling "visa fraud hotline" doesn't really give you anything. I had to call chase and luckily I hit on the right person, although I did have to ask to speak to a supervisor because the person I was talking to (probably from ghana) didn't understand what I was trying to do.

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:02 pm

I am curious about how the scammers phone works in Ghana. His number is showing Georgia, USA. How can he get that to work in ghana? and if it's 25¢, wouldn't there at least be a roaming charge or a out of country charge if he is indeed calling from Ghana?

Forgive my ignorance. I know little about cell phones.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

Hi again,

First, please use the "reply" button rather than the quote button when posting, it helps keep the threads less cluttered.

It sounds like you're baiting sort-of safely, using fake names, etc but the real name of the business?
You're right in that the danger of the scammer coming to hurt you is very remote. Keep in mind, however, that there are tons of other ways that the scammer can make a real nuisance of himself.
Scammers do: Mail bomb accounts, post fake and negative "testimonials" all over the internet about your businesses, send you death threats, etc. The death threats are funny when there's no connection to any real info. They're less funny if he does some digging and knows any real names or addresses. You never know where the scammer may have accomplices. There are scammers operating out of many countries.

You can bait the scammer safely - just stop this particular contact and pick him up as a new "victim" from a fake company name.

Regarding the credit cards - just so you know in the future - we do have a direct and very effective contact established to get the cards frozen.

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:18 pm

Adding to what Ima has pointed out, keep in mind that many scammers operate as part of large gangs, either directly or by affiliation. Some of these gangs have a very wide reach -- including in the US. While the odds of a personal attack may be small, they are not non-existent. We did once have a member who used his office fax to communicate and later got a visit from some gang members.

Safe baiting is a mantra here; any risk is too much.

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:20 pm

Quote:

Yes, Visa was awful. Googling "visa fraud hotline" doesn't really give you anything. ..... (probably from ghana) didn't understand what I was trying to do.

Your boss should have a phone # in the packet of info that the card companies send every year. There's a number for reporting fraud - generally specific to each merchant account provider. Don't google it - you'll get a low level CSR who is used to answering simple questions like "how can I change my address". Ask the boss to open the BIG envelope, lol. If their desk is like mine, it's already loacated under about 4 feet of other 'stuff'. Personally, I do my own reporting. I like to have some 'good will' built up in case somebody doesn't recognize the billing name on their statement & charges back instead of calling. Especially with AMEX, that good will can go a *long* way. The CC company realizes you're serious about your business and are less likely to process a charge-back without at least a phone call.

re: tracfone - you can't even call *to* Ghana from a tracphone (their website has a list of countries) - much less roam from there. You can roam world-wide with at&t - Verizon has limits. Smaller companies rely on the 2 big carriers - so at&t's gophone will roam world-wide with pre-pay. Not sure about Verizons products. Chances are they found a sucker to ship an internationally-enabled phone to Ghana.

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:36 pm

ricobico wrote:

I am curious about how the scammers phone works in Ghana. His number is showing Georgia, USA. How can he get that to work in ghana?

Without knowing the number we can't give you accurate information. But my first thought is how do you know the person sending the emails is the same person answering the phone?

Many lads in West Africa have connections here in the US. If you did a search here on Eater, you will see a few instances of lads on some of the few webcams in the US. Also, the metro Atlanta area has a large group of lads with strong connections to West Africa and the UK.

Don't foolishly believe that scammers are all 'over there' and not in your backyard. Wink

Welcome to Eater! Very Happy

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:04 pm

btw - to clarify - I'm not suggesting you continue to bait with your bosses account - at all. The info was only given to let you know that there is a direct # available for the merchant to call.

Personally, if I were going to bait, I'd invent a disgruntled former employee with access to the company e-mail (password never changed after you quit) - and offer to do the job cheaper, etc etc. - from an anonymous gmail account.

The #1 baiter rule of 'bait safe' applies. my apologies if I gave the impression of condoning baiting from an existing business & identifiable location. In reality, all businesses get those fake orders - but to bait them you might want to lead them away from the legitimate biz.

Not sure about Ghana ^^ yes on the community in Atlanta - but the largest church in Nigeria (lagos chapel seating 15,000 & SRO on Sundays) has quite a few satellite churches around the US. With my romance lads, I've found they make international connections via the church - which could put some of their "friends" right in your back yard. (see #1 - bait safe)

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

Quote:

Personally, if I were going to bait, I'd invent a disgruntled former employee with access to the company e-mail (password never changed after you quit) - and offer to do the job cheaper, etc etc. - from an anonymous gmail account.

This actually still leaves a connection to the real business and isn't necessary. Scammers send these scam formats out to tons of people and won't remember that the response he's getting is from some company he never targeted.

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:34 pm

thanks for all of the information. I will probably just ignore this guys calls from now on. I thought about giving him the agents phone number at the secret service in georgia, but I thought that agent might not like it. I used to do this kind of thing to the fax-bombers. I would give them my state's attorney general's fax number because that sort of solicitation is illegal here. it never went anywhere as far as I know.

Anyway, his is just a low-effort hobby of mine. I don't think I will set up fake emails and all of that. I will just waste a little of their time, then drop off.

I have to say I am skeptical by nature, so I would be curious about the details of the member who had a gang show up. where was this (country)? Were the details posted in this forum?

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:45 pm

my usual excuse is to say that I picked up the enquiry from an old account I don't use much. Whatever you're selling, invent it, he doesn't care what it is. My four CCs came from selling silk screen printing stuff. It looks like fun but otherwise, I've never gone near the stuff.

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:39 pm

Nailgunner wrote:

my usual excuse is to say that I picked up the enquiry from an old account I don't use much. Whatever you're selling, invent it, he doesn't care what it is. My four CCs came from selling silk screen printing stuff. It looks like fun but otherwise, I've never gone near the stuff.

pardon me, but I have no idea what this means.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

Nailgunner is saying that he's reported four stolen credit cards from this type of baiting and that the fake company he made up was posing as a seller of silk screening supplies, something he has no real life experience with.

The four credit cards he reported are showing in his signature with a black piggy bank icon.

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:50 am

^ that was it. Sorry, should have been clearer. The credit card/shipping scam lad I got actually went to my company mail system as unrouted mail, which I handle and (usually) just bin. This one looked like a hoot so I mailed him afresh from a Gmail baiting account, leaving no connection to my real-life mail system.

I've always taken the view that bait accounts are in harm's way and should fail safe: There should be absolutely no links back to your real life identity, including forwarded emails, files, password reminders - anything at all. That way if one is compromised, big deal, start over. Otherwise; major headaches.

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