b2b sites 419 scam

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 7

I found this site while searching for help. My wife and I are both underemployed attorneys and things have been quite rough the last year or so. For the last 10 months or so she has become a broker for gold and diamond transactions with sellers from Africa operating off of tradekey and other similar sites. She works 16 hours a day to no avail and will not listen to reason that all of these deals are fake.

We have only lost a small amount of money (a few hundred dollars) that I agreed to in the hopes of losing it and having her see the light - this has not worked. Another broker she works with just lost $5,000. I can't imagine who is foolish enough to fall for these scams but I can tell you there are other victims including the families of people that unknowlingly work on transactions posted on b2b sites such as tradekey.

It is not just the money that we have lost, it is also long distance phone calls to Africa, time she can spend with myself and our daughter and the fact that she has foregone almost 10 grand from her employer because she doesn't have the time to do the work. Hearing her speak about the other brokers that she works with, I know there are other husbands, wives and children out there in the same situation I am in.

This was just a long-winded way of saying that I would like to target the scammers posting on these b2b sites and wondering why there is so little written on this but so much on the email solicitations. Any advice or insight would be very much appreciated.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:04 pm

I'm sorry to hear of your situation. There are people here far more qualified than me to tell you how to handle the situation with your wife. All I can suggest is visiting http://www.scamwarners.com to find some information regarding the B2B scams you've mentioned.

That said, if you want to target these people for baiting purposes, simply read the stickies, tutorials, and the Eater University thread first, then gather a few of the email addresses that you know to be scammers and have at 'em. I'm sure that if you were to post the email addresses of those that have already taken your money on this thread, those bastards will receive extra special treatment from the community here.

Welcome to the site. I'm sorry you had to find us like this.

EP

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 7

Thanks for the quick feedback and the sympathy. I will get up to speed quickly and get to work on causing trouble for these scammers as well as posting their email addresses.

Thanks again for the support and I am looking forward to making a valuable contribution to this community.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:24 pm

Another tip: I might suggest posting the email addresses and details of anyone you might feel needs "special attention" on the Help, Hints, and Tips forum. It's password-protected and Google won't lead any curious lads to the site.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:49 pm

Welcome here oceans14.

First things first. Your wife seems hooked on these scams and she needs to snap out of it. Do you monitor where she spends her money on? Are you sure she doesn't send money to these scammers? Take El pistolero's advice to heart and take a look at our sister site scamwarners.com
And this is about buying or selling on the internet: http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3222
Please read on scamwarners, and let your wife read it too.
If you want more help with your wife you can PM one of the support team members at scamwarners.com

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 7

El Pistolero - I will make sure to post the email address and details of those in need of "special attention" as instructed - Thanks again!

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 7

The Vampire - Thanks for the welcome and the advice. I will definitely check out scam warners right away and have my wife do the same although I am not optimistic. She is an attorney and graduate of a top 25 law school who is otherwise very smart. I have tried pointing out the flaws in her deals without success.

For example, how can an unknown mine without proven reserves offer a contract for 5,000 kg a month for 12 months? This is 60,000 kg from a mine in Ghana when the entire country of Ghana exported less than 80,000 kg of gold in 2009 according to government records! Also, the fourth largest mining company in the world just acquired an interest in a mine in Mali that will allow them to increase thier production in all of Africa to 1 million ounces a year which comes out to 28,409 kg - less than half of what is being offered by an unknown mine!

I can't explain how she can disregard facts from trusted sources that so undermine the legitimacy of her deals but I do think it is similar to other addictions such as drugs or gambling. Perhaps that makes me foolish for trusting her to not send additional money to these scammers but I know what our combined income is and where it goes. However, the thought has crossed my mind regarding the "missing 10 grand" since I have heard several explanations as to why she has not been able to collect it and it would help quite a bit to have it. We are making ends meet but with a small child at home it would be nice to have a cushion of some sort.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 10:51 pm

I'm no expert, but your wife's pathology seems most similar to that of a gambling addict. Perhaps that could guide your efforts to open her eyes to the deception she's fallen victim to.

Regarding the statistics you've posted: When baiting these lads, do not point out these discrepancies. That will educate them and we're looking to do the opposite.

A good rule of thumb is:
The more convincing their claims, the more doubtful you become. The more rediculous their claims, the more convinced you become. This is classic deeducation.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 10:53 pm

Hi oceans14 and welcome to 419eater.

I'm sorry the hear that your family has been scammed but pleased that you, at least, are now aware that you have been robbed.

I'm not sure that this is really the forum you need. By that I mean that its not clear what you hope to achieve. What do you mean by "targetting these scammers"?. If you mean wasting their time so that they cannot spend so much time scamming others then this is the right place. If you mean getting them arrested then I'm afraid that that isn't going to happen anytime soon. The guys who are scamming your wife are probably in West Africa and the Police there are none too bothered about such activities.

Maybe you just want to raise awareness as to how widespread this particular scam is. In that case a visit to Scamwarners.com would probably be the best bet. The site exists to document advance fee fraud and to offer assistance to the victims of such frauds. If this is the road you wish to travel then a summary as to how the fraud works will be helpful.

I note that your wife is "graduate of a top 25 law school ". Unfortunately it is not unknown for well educated people to fall for these scams. If you visit Scamwarners you will see a whole section dedicated to scams directed at lawyers here.

I think you have hit the nail directly on the head with this quote

Quote:

I do think it is similar to other addictions such as drugs or gambling.

In my experience its very much like the gambling addiction. Gamblers will lose a small amount of money and then try and win the money back but in the process lose a little more . Then they will spend even more to win back what they lost initially and the money they lost to get back the initial stake................ and so on!

Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 10:58 pm

Oceans14,

I am definetly not telling you what to do here, or be critical in any way, but it does sound like your wife needs some kind of intervention. Especially with limited income, you don't want it being handed to a bunch of overseas scumballs. You'll want to make sure you monitor now ALL your income, find some help for her. Even though it's not gambling in the traditional way, a place like gambler's anonymous may be able to help.

Good luck with everything, read up on everything here with scambaiting, and welcome aboard!!

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 7

El Pistolero wrote:

I'm no expert, but your wife's pathology seems most similar to that of a gambling addict. Perhaps that could guide your efforts to open her eyes to the deception she's fallen victim to.

Regarding the statistics you've posted: When baiting these lads, do not point out these discrepancies. That will educate them and we're looking to do the opposite.

A good rule of thumb is:
The more convincing their claims, the more doubtful you become. The more rediculous their claims, the more convinced you become. This is classic deeducation.

I tend to agree about the gambling analogy although, oddly enough, the few times we have been to a casino she doesn't much care for it.

I will also keep in mind what you have said about deeducation - excellent advice!

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 7

music man wrote:

Hi oceans14 and welcome to 419eater.

I'm sorry the hear that your family has been scammed but pleased that you, at least, are now aware that you have been robbed.

I'm not sure that this is really the forum you need. By that I mean that its not clear what you hope to achieve. What do you mean by "targetting these scammers"?. If you mean wasting their time so that they cannot spend so much time scamming others then this is the right place. If you mean getting them arrested then I'm afraid that that isn't going to happen anytime soon. The guys who are scamming your wife are probably in West Africa and the Police there are none too bothered about such activities.

Maybe you just want to raise awareness as to how widespread this particular scam is. In that case a visit to Scamwarners.com would probably be the best bet. The site exists to document advance fee fraud and to offer assistance to the victims of such frauds. If this is the road you wish to travel then a summary as to how the fraud works will be helpful.

I note that your wife is "graduate of a top 25 law school ". Unfortunately it is not unknown for well educated people to fall for these scams. If you visit Scamwarners you will see a whole section dedicated to scams directed at lawyers here.

I think you have hit the nail directly on the head with this quote

Quote:

I do think it is similar to other addictions such as drugs or gambling.

In my experience its very much like the gambling addiction. Gamblers will lose a small amount of money and then try and win the money back but in the process lose a little more . Then they will spend even more to win back what they lost initially and the money they lost to get back the initial stake................ and so on!

I understand that targeting the scammers for prosecution is not feasible. What I meant was to bait the ones that are using message boards such as tradekey or trade boss as opposed to the mass email type. There seems to be very little attention focused on these scammers although they may be the same scammers sending the mass emails. The difference is that what we are talking about here is the sales of certain commodities at below market prices but having to pay taxes and shipping up front - usually 6.5% of the purchase price.

Why do so many fail to see that a legitimate seller of gold dust, diamonds, etc. would not be willing to let millions of dollars of his product be shipped to a foreign country without receiving even a partial payment! I did point this out to my wife who said that the seller was accompanying the gold in a private jet to be paid for by the buyer and would stay with the gold until payment was received. Perhaps I am overly suspicous but there is no way I would agree to that as a seller given that he could be murdered in transit and dumped over the ocean - people have killed for far less than millions of dollars.

My goal here is simply to distract the scammers and educate potential victims.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 7

mhallack wrote:

Oceans14,

I am definetly not telling you what to do here, or be critical in any way, but it does sound like your wife needs some kind of intervention. Especially with limited income, you don't want it being handed to a bunch of overseas scumballs. You'll want to make sure you monitor now ALL your income, find some help for her. Even though it's not gambling in the traditional way, a place like gambler's anonymous may be able to help.

Good luck with everything, read up on everything here with scambaiting, and welcome aboard!!

Thanks for the welcome and the support. I agree that some intervention is in order and her parents, sister etc. have all tried as well. We will all be away together next weekend and will try jointly then.

Although I do keep track of our income and expenses it is mostly because that has always been my job since she has always had a spending problem. Part of the problem is an unwillingness to accept a scaled back lifestyle until the economy changes - we both had six figure jobs until about 14 months ago and hopefully will again once the economy improves.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:25 pm

I noticed that you said you want to "cause trouble" for the scammers - be sure to bait safe, and do not respond from any address that is linked to your real life details. Don't show any links between your baiting and your wife to the scammers.

Definitely post on Scamwarners.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:34 pm

@oceans14

If your intent is twofold then your approach needs to mirror that. Post a short description as to the scam ( preferably with headers) in this forum and also a more detailed one ( if necessary) at scamwarners.

Worst that can happen is the lad googles his email addy (unless you change it - 0 instead of o for instance) and uses a new address. We'll still know where he is!

Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:59 pm

oceans14 wrote:

My goal here is simply to distract the scammers and educate potential victims.

I hate to tell you this, but the scammers aren't going to stop when they get their money from your wife. There will always be a new excuse for needing more.

I wouldn't concern yourself with distracting them. I'd get your wife off it immediately. Take away the computer if you have to. This isn't going to fizzle out, I assure you. You need to take action NOW.

Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 5:27 pm

Google some of the business names they use, I'll bet some come up as scammers in the first few hits. Perhaps she needs a serious reality check, there are some great "tesitmonials" here and at Scamwarners from victims.

On a side note, should you choose to bait, be aware it is as addictive.

I wish you stability in your life. I welcome you to our community.

Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 6:51 pm

Hi,
I'm sorry to hear this. But honestly if your wife is this ignorant then you might be best cleaning out your bank account and running off with another woman ... no seriously.
You also need to check your bank account now, it's possible that your wife has fallen foul of a larger scam and thinks she needs to try to recoup lost funds.
Some people even resort to stealing to hide the fact that they have been scammed or turn into scammers themselves.