Your views on how the scammers operate

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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:34 pm

I squeaked by Psychology 101 with a hard earned C,but I did learn one thing that has stuck with me through the years.We tend to think of other people as being like ourselves-ie if you are a trustworthy person,you feel others are also.If you are a thief,you feel the world wants to steal from you.There is a reason it is so easy for us to pull dolla chops on the lads.
They would do it to one of their fellows in a hearbeat.

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:11 am

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research proposal based on the evolving morality of the internet

Is there time to change it to

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research proposal based on the evolving immoralityof the internet

You might like to add a section on how Western Union make it easy for scammers.

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:30 pm

RayAdverb wrote:

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Wouldn't that mean they physically went to Asian countries affected by the tsunami, reached into the mouths of orphans, and pulled the partially chewed food out?

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Maybe it was inappropriate, but I was taking up a semantic quibble, because RightBehindYou and you have hit upon one of my pet peeves; misuse of the word "literally" to describe obviously figurative situations. You can't literally take the food out of a starving orphan's mouth unless you physically approach the orphan and remove the food from its mouth by force.

Speaking about SEMANTICS.., and in the context of this particular discussion your point is.....??

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:25 pm

This scammer would

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take the food out of a starving orphan's mouth

by using a disaster to con money from generous and compassionate people.

This is the picture I got and the odd misuse of English didn't change the picture.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

Quote:

You might like to add a section on how Western Union make it easy for scammers.

Comments like this bother me. Western Union is a legitimate service that makes it easy for people to send cash. It is misused by scammers. They have warnings and I personally know someone with a WU store who has refused to do a transfer to Nigeria because he was sure it was a scam.
They aren't responsible for the scammers any moreso than the Mail Service for delivering the fake checks, the email providers for providing email accounts, etc.

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:02 pm

Somebody else said

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Western Union cannot trust their clerks. Transactions should only be accessible on the Western Union system in the sender's and the recipient's countries. If the MTCN is not required, then it should not be given to the customer. The MTCN should not be a "magic" way of picking up the funds. There is absolutely no need for the customer to have access to such a device. Identifying a transaction by MTCN for the purposes of paying-out should be a clear and severe breach of regulations, and it is pretty easy to detect it.

To my mind, there should be a clear difference between transactions that require ID and those that don't. The customer should have to sign to accept that the transaction may be picked up without ID. In fact it should be a different form, without a recipient name - if they're not going to check ID, then putting any name is false security. Maybe replace it with a second question/answer pair.

Ima Baeder said

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I personally know someone with a WU store who has refused to do a transfer to Nigeria because he was sure it was a scam.

But what about the West Africna end? This is where WU need to take responsibility for correct deliveries, and be seen to do so by senders without the need for court orders.

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:42 pm

419 scammers come in all shapes and sizes and it is unfortunate to say that much of society in West Africa has a large element of corruption involved (though you could possibly say the same about western society too) but even Nigerians, on their own forums, complain about the situation.

419 scamming has almost become a 'right of passage' for schoolkids. like the Western equivalent of stealing hubcaps or scrumping (from a bygone age) and successful scammers can achieve status and admiration which distorts the local moral view of dishonesty.

Kids who can barely spell do it alongside more mature 50 year olds who hold good jobs and do it as a sideline the way we play the lottery. There are more sophisticated networks, often formed on school friendships and I know of one school that appears to be more notable for producing 419 scammers than much else.

The one thing you must never lose sight of, is that 419 scamming is the entry level to more professional criminality. If there is local acceptance of 'trunk box' scams, and the like, then the counterfeit cheques and stolen credit card details become accepted as just a part of the same game.

The scammers are all the while looking to find new 'markets' for their scams, like Western pensioners or developing countries, where there is a greater likelihood of people not being aware of 419.

Amazingly, professors and financial advisers have fallen for these scams, but being intelligent doesn't mean you aren't naive and trusting.

** Retired ** Joined: 14 May 2007 Posts: 750 Location: Air

Just to chime in with my $0.02

I picked a scam email a few weeks ago and sent a reply stating that I knew he was a scammer, but that if he abandoned his ways, I would employ him as an agent for my art business (fictional of course).

This was his reply :

Quote:

Dear Sir,

Honestly,

The truth of your message is very pure and understandable but I will be very ashamed of my self to be come a worker for you when I have already made my self lair to you.

I'm really sorry for that it’s due to the situations in Africa. People are suffering because of Bad Government and untruthful leadership in Africa; everybody is looking for means to survive. We do not regard crime as any offence.

I have been meditating on your message since 5 day's now. I will be very humbly to work for you but you cannot trust me again because I was about to scam you, that's what I am doing to make a living but still not made it.

Sir, I am a Nigerian by Nationality but I reside here in Benin Republic chasing for survival.

I will work for you if you accepted me and I promise you that my old life shall be changed. I will be glad to re-establish my life in a genuine means of living. Your type of Business shall fetch you multiple benefits in Nigerian because Nigerian is a Rich Country with vast population of people who must be interested to buy your product.

You can have branches of investment in Abuja Capital City. Port Harcute Oil Ground head Quarter. And Lagos states Centre of all Business in Nigerian.

I will personally take you round these places for investment negotiation. There are lot's unemployment people who will be ready to work with us in innocent mind.

I appreciate the good opportunity and I will surrender from my sinful way of life if you can help me out.

God Bless you My Name is .

I’m from Enugu State in the Eastern Part of Nigeria, my Tribes is called IBO. I came from family of 6 but left 5. I lost both parents long time.

I am living in Cotonou Benin Republic, you can call me any time if you wish 0022 xxxxxxx. (edited out)
I will appreciate it.

My real name is Michael.

Now, there is only instinct, intuition and experience to judge whether this is a fabricated story or a statement of honest truth when it is first received. After a few careful exchanges, Michael suddenly exploded with abusive emails and threats. He was given no instigation from myself and so I can only conclude that Michael was genuine in the above reply, and got excited that his life of scamming was over, told somebody (possibly his 'oga'/employer or the next in line above him in the chain), has then been told that he is a fool for thinking he was falling for my story, and then vented his hostility towards me for falsely promising him the good life.

Thats just my theory.

The point is, with instinct, intuition and experience, I deem Michaels email above to be true. His sudden lashing out indicates that he fell for my job offer hook line and sinker. He is then convinced I am a liar and not an art dealer at all by a third party, his hopes and dreams of the good life come crashing down around him, and I got a torrent of verbal abuse.

Had he of continued with the bait, I would have thought the opposite, in that his promises to turn his back on 419 were just another pack of lies.

I didnt post this to say whether he is a liar or he is genuine, or whether I think what I think is right or wrong. Or whether we should feel for this guy (I still would have baited his ass to Timbuktu and back regardless), or whether me baiting him would be immoral or whatever.

I posted this so you can see for yourself a reply from a seemingly desperate man, with little other to do to survive than scam innocent people, and his reaction to a promise of a good life with a well paid job if he turned his back on scamming.

Its not for me to say whether this is all a load of bull.

I posted this for you to make your own judgment. I hope it helps with your studies.

SB

P.S. so you know, this is a single reply. The 'job offer' was sent out to a huge number of scammers. This was the only reply of this kind.

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:44 pm

Clara, one thing you could do is read some of the baits here. The gaining of confidence that baiters do is very similar to what the thieving lads do. Baiters lie, dissemble, paint pictures, create fantasies, flirt, promise sex, make phone calls, promise more things, lie some more, just like the lads do. The difference, of course, is we do it for justice, fun, sense of being able to be mean to people who steal while remaining righteous, whatever motivates the individuals, s and they do it to steal.

Like the scammers do, we use fake websites, the lure of unearned cash, promises of sex, anything that will make us seem real and appeal to their sense of greed, to get them to do what we want. Some people like to call the lads at 2AM and talk, others like to send them down to Western Union with a fake MTCN number, others like to collect silly photos of the scammers.

To me, the apogee of baiting is safari baiting. There are some here who are simply incredible at this, and this is a very good example of manipulation and deceit. Jojoban, who is "retired", has an astounding number of Safari

under his posts, each of which indicates a "safari" (travel over an international border, or more that 200 miles one way) and is one of the best. If he reads this, his ego, already large, will swell up, but the truth often has a price. Laughing

I am not a great baiter, just persistent, and I enjoy the "work".

It takes a great deal of skill and patience to develop a relationship where a lad will travel to meet you, just as the best scammers are very good at what they do.

You could talk pretty easily with many baiters and get a more honest idea of how this type of deception is practiced.

Good luck on your thesis!

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:03 pm

Yes- what we do to scammers, is very similar to what they do to victims, except that we aren't doing it for financial gain, and they only fall into our nets because they are actively scamming.

In the same way that some people are bemused by some of the things scammers fall for, people also find it hard to believe that people fall for their scams.

The scammer who went on my safari was farly well destroyed mentally and materially afterwards, but that's what they will do to victims so I don't trouble myself over that.

I am even integrated into the scammer community for the purpose of baiting them and that's very revealing. i think the fact that there is little risk of being caught and the promise of riches makes it into a compulsion, like gambling, that will be difficult to stamp out.

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:49 pm

There are many ways to gain a person's trust. One way is to put yourself as the authority figure, like many baiters do when they turn the tables (so the scammer thinks he's getting the money). Another way to do it is to pose as a fellow scammer. You make him look up to you, then you "advice" him on what to do. I did this to a lad, and he has ended up using hilarious scripts that a real victim would laugh hysterically of. That way I can "de-educate" him and make his chances of becoming successful that much less.

Now on the other hand, I have a feeling that a scammer will always be a scammer, a person who is lying, deceitful, and ruthless when trying to get what they want. Even when speaking to someone that is an authority to them. Or someone they do not actually need to lie to.

In the below IM conversation with my lad, he tells me, his "boss", that he will work day and night, he needs all the money in the world... and, well... just read Wink

"Efe206 is the scammer, I am franke.addams, his "oga"

Quote:

efe206: ok
efe206: and i wan't u to be my oga too (OGA MEANS BOSS)
efe206: u see i am not too long in this game (game = Scamming)
franke.addams: na good my man
efe206: i did not know much about it
franke.addams: I think u are good all I want is see u work and u will be well in soljas of fortune
efe206: u broda i work day and nigth no sleep
franke.addams: dat is very good bro!
efe206: for becus i need money

Now for the scammer who is working day and night, he is now rarely logged on, he is failing to respond to his "victims" (I make sure they are only baiters), and he mixes up scripts while trying to save time. That much for what seemed to be the absolute dream employee.

Now for the conclusion Very Happy

. If what he said was true, that he needed money (and I will take that he needs it for food), he would not be slacking off. If you are starving and this is the only way to make money for yourself and your family, no man who is sane, would voluntarily slack off work to do... other things. ( I have no idea what to do in my spare time when in Senegal Very Happy

).

If you want to follow this bait, you can do it here: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=168902

Good luck on your research Wink

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