Prof, Yeawhatever & Jojo on the radio-This American Life

By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics and access other forums reserved for members. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join our community today by clicking here.

Elite Baiter Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 1269

Teacher loses £11,000 in web scam

A teacher who thought she was being romanced on the internet fell victim to an international scam that cost her nearly £11,000.

Deborah Staveley, 42, first made contact with the conman on a dating website a month ago, Durham Police said.

The man, calling himself John Thomas, said he was working as an architect in the Republic of Benin - but within a couple of weeks he started asking for money to pay medical bills for himself and his daughter, who was suffering from malaria. He then invented a story of his daughter's kidnap and his desperation to pay ransom demands before she was killed.

Miss Staveley, from Sherburn Village, Co Durham, started sending him thousands and gave him her bank details when he said his credit cards were not being accepted.

The man - who police said was likely to be a Nigerian gangster based in Lagos - then began to use her bank account as a clearing house for large sums of cash. Police believe this money had also been "scammed" from other victims.

Miss Staveley admits she was "naive" at first, but said she became suspicious as his demands for cash grew and money began being channelled through her bank account.

"I had no reason to believe that money he sent me was fraudulent but now my bank has frozen my account. I can't pay my bills or mortgage," she said. "Before I knew where I was I was sucked in. It is my own stupid fault and I just feel sick. I've had lots of sleepless nights and haven't eaten properly."

Detective Inspector Geoff Smith, head of Durham Police's economic crime unit, said Miss Staveley's story was "a grim warning to others to take special care" on internet dating sites.

"Deborah has lost a lot of money but learned a valuable lesson. A lot of things on the internet are not what they appear to be and people should think very carefully about revealing their personal details to strangers."

He said the force was continuing to investigate the scam, but it could be "difficult to complete" if the trail led back to Lagos

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:54 am

@followthesum,

I'm sorry but the lad hugging shit, just does not sit well with me. After speaking to victims of these scams over the years, there is nothing human about these scammers.

You may want to take a look at our ethics page, to see what these "human beings" are capable of:

http://www.419eater.com/html/ethics.htm

Take a look at this bait:

The hitman scammer actually tried to scam a baiter that he thought was an 11year old!

http://www.scamorama.com/prolite_agnes_hitlad.html

Elite Baiter Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 1269

I've seen worse than this, believe it or not, follow. Sad

Quote:

Pensioner loses £35k in lottery scam

# Last Updated: 29 August 2008 10:33 AM

A pensioner from the Fylde area of Lancashire has been duped out of £35,000 by "aggressive" conmen running a fake international lottery.
The elderly resident, whose identity is being protected, paid out thousands of pounds in administration fees in a bid to win a multi-million pound jackpot.

Lancashire Trading Standards officers are now hunting the scammers and pushing local MPs to call for the sending of fraudulent post to be a criminal offence.

Officer Steve Brimble said those running the fake lotteries tend to target vulnerable people.

He said: "Contact is usually made by direct junk mail indicating a large lottery win and asking for a small fee or contact details.

"Scammers then begin telephoning the victim, often befriending them, and asking them to send increasing sums of money for the supposed release of payment of the non-existent lottery win.

"Payment is often sent to criminals abroad by electronic money transfer, making it virtually impossible to track them down."

Anyone who believes they have been conned this way should call 08454 040506.

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:39 am

Followthesun:

Quote:

Oh I know! What happened to those people is awful too...but those situations came from their greed also! I mean, weren't they offered money, and went after it? Sounds familiar to this situation.

Is greed involved when people think they are
- adopting a puppy from a missionary?
- adopting or buying a puppy from a reputable breeder, or a girl whose grandmother just passed away, leaving her with a litter?
- helping a woman with cancer to donate her money to worthwhile causes?
- winning a lottery?
- helping a man/woman they believe loves them to travel to meet them?
- helping someone to pay the bills for their sick child who is in the hospital?
- working at home processing payments for a legitimate business?
- forwarding packages to a fellow countryman who is working in Africa and can't get supplies he needs because companies won't ship there?
- attending a conference aimed at finding solutions for poverty/AIDS crisis, or supporting youth in poor countries?
These victims were not motivated by greed. They were often motivated by love, trust, or compassion. The scammers knew this and didn't hesitate to take everything they could. The majority of successful scams today take advantage of something other than greed and dishonesty. Yes, there are some victims who think they are getting (maybe even stealing) a fortune that is sitting around unclaimed. This kind of victim is few and far between these days, and in most cases, even if motivated by greed, even he/she believes that they are not hurting anyone.

On the other hand, this scammer KNEW he was was hurting someone. He knew he was breaking the law on multiple occasions, and that he was going after money that would otherwise be used to help poor refugees. He knew he was going into a dangerous area but was willing to take the risk. Through his own greed, he got to be the "victim" for a change. One would have hoped he would have learned empathy from the experience. Instead he returned home and went right back to trying to steal from more innocent victims.

I couldn't have done what these three did, and I didn't find everything to be funny either (though I laughed at some things). But I understand their position, and I'm certainly not wasting any sympathy on this scammer. Heck, his whole experience was still probably less painful than 5-10 years in some prisons (which could easily be the sentence for multiple counts of grand theft, at least here in the US)

Trophy Videos · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:28 am

@followthesun - The examples by Lotta above are not isolated rare incidences. "Attempted murders" are occuring right here on these boards, by the scammers themselves. My characters (but the scammers believed they were real people), had "hits" ordered on them by these scammers numerous times. I have every reason to believe that if my characters were real people, they would be dead right now. Scammers have no morals at all.

If you don't believe me, read "Very Annoyed Cheque Lad!!
http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=122426
I was not the only character targeted by the scammer for elimination.
In "Tina & Joe's Safari 85 days: Ritual pics posted" Angelo, Tina, Karim, and Enitan were also targeted for a kidnapping, robbery, and murder by
Joe and one of his scammer friends when they came out of the desert near Naimey with the treasure. Go read it here:
http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=133248

I am glad that I waste their time, money, and energies on me, instead of
an innocent victim. I feel absolutely no remorse or guilt at offering them any of the trials and pain, that they gladly endure because of their love of money over human beings. I, like the others, think you are misinformed and need to read more victim stories before you judge that what we do here is "good" or "bad." Baiting here is always up to the individual baiter as to how far he will go in his baits and how much pain and humiliation is sufficient. Each of us makes his/her own limits within our own belief system. If a baiter doesn't feel like keeping a scammer in the desert for three months, they don't have to. They can kill their bank accounts and fake websites, instead. But there is nothing "wrong" about what some baiters do here. I do not judge them.
Scammers have choice, and they are not weak, infirm, retarded, blind, deaf, in financial trouble, or depressed and seeking love, whatever, like the people they target. They prey on human beings for money and have no limits as to what they will say or do to get money. They are the lowest form of life on this planet. I feel worse when I accidentally step on a mushroom than I ever would hearing about some scammer breaking his leg or suffering because he is trying to scam someone's money.
I am a five-time attempted murder victim, in the scammers' minds, hearts and souls, and isn't that what makes us "Human?" Apparently, they didn't think too much about killing me, their hearts were in it, and they didn't have any morals against killing me, either. These kinds of "humans" I can do without, thank you. They deserve more than they are getting, that's a fact.

I won't even get into the arms-dealing, drug running, money laundering and terrorists aspect. That's a whole nuther thread.

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:58 am

@followthesun

You may also like to read this bait just to see how low these scumbags are willing to sink to steal a dollar....

http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=144648&highlight=deco+hark

They are prepared to rob a pregnant thirteen year old schoolgirl, even after her grandmother had just died.

You may also want to check my signature line below to see the value of fake checks I have saved from falling into the hands of unwitting victims. I not blowing my own trumpet here, but merely pointing out that if you took the time and the trouble to read around this forum you will see what these scumbags are capable of.

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:13 am

@ the fife:

Sorry to interrupt here, but just so you know, it was YW, jojo, and the prof. I'm not sure who "co" is, but he wasn't part of the bait.

As far as these guys go, I don't think I can add anything that hasn't been said. One thing I can say is that if it was at all possible, we would have made it worse for them. We ran out of cards to play. If it were up to us, they'd still be there (or in Khatoum).

To anyone that thinks Ira painted us in a bad light, or didn't do a good job, I just don't get it. I think he and his producers pulled off a great segment on this bait. People have told us that they think he made us look as bad as the scammers, or just went too far in making us look cruel in the editing process.

The fact is that he had 6 times the audio they ended up using to pull from, and there were countless ways to splice it up. He could have painted any picture he wanted with it. In fact, we got worse treatment from members of 419Eater over the course of this bait. Remember that chick that was calling us names, guys? Weren't we rabid/hate-filled/impotent or something? Man, that was weird.

That was a baiter that said that. So for someone that obviously doesn't deal with victims of these scams, or see a lot about this aspect of the internet (let alone the fact that he didn't agree with what we did), I think he did a great job at delivering the story, and it sure has put a much bigger spotlight on 419 scams/baiting in general.

Edited out some extraneous shiz

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:46 am

followthesun wrote:

I don't know the specifics, I haven't bothered to read into it much. -Jade

@Jade - With all due respect, you really do need to be fully informed before you pass judgement.

I can assure you that the baiters involved in this particular safari bait, have years of experience of dealing with these morally bankrupt criminals.

They have witnessed how callous and cruel these scammers are.
They have seen the devastaing damage inflicted upon ordinary people by these scammers.
They have experienced the utter indifference of these criminals to the trail of pain and sorrow that they leave in their wake.

So if the entire basis of your argument rests on the plea that they are human beings too, I am afraid that really is a very, very weak argument.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

I've split the discussion of Ethics with DirtMcGirt onto this thread: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=148333&highlight=

*** BANNED *** Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 2021

Nice move

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:53 pm

Would it be possible to move pages 9 and 10, Ima?
There's some good posts there that show how Eater members feel about victims, why sympathy and empathy are imperative and why we do what we do.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

I can only split, I can't glue back together. Sorry.

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:19 pm

I host a radio show in the country of Grenada and a friend suggested the story from This American Life for discussion. I have heard interviews with baiters before and thought it would be funny. I agree the scam was funny, but Ira's story was too serious for me. I was pleased with the story's ending to show what scum these people are. I was so impressed with you guys I had to register just to thank you for helping exposing these criminals.

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:06 am

Thanks.

Feel free to do your own radio show about the bait. Wink

The more exposure, the better.

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:31 pm

Thanks Pirate. And yes, we are media whores, so please, feel free to do a show about it.

I would like to point out to the world that YW is nearly twice the a-hole I am. Some people must have accidentally hit the wrong button when trying to vote for Prof and voted for me. Because he is way worse than me. A beligerant drunk he is.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 22 Sep 2008 Posts: 41

After listening to Ira for about 5 years now, I'm not really surprised with his opinion on the whole thing, but I don't think he painted you all in a bad light at all. His personal opinion may've been that it got taken to too far of an extreme, but the show just lays it out there for everyone to make their own judgement. And for my judgement, it's the most gut wrenching hilarious form of karma I've had the privilige to get a glimpse of.

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:19 am

Quote:

DONT JOKE WITH ME. I DO NOT HAVE TIM FOR MUCH QUESTION.I AM GIVING YOU JUST 48HOURS TO PAY THE SUM OF 4THOUNSAND DOLLARS, WE ARE HAVING A VERY CLOSE LOOK AT YOU, IF YOU DOUBT US WE WILL KILL YOU WITHOUT NO DELAY. DONT EVEN THINK OF CONTACTING THE POLICE............

if only you will co-operate with us then you will know who want to kill you,but if you refuse to comply then we are going to carry out the job,you know what that mean, it mean we are going to kill you that what we are paid for,if you want to comply then you have to pay the sum of $8,000 first, as soon as you get the tape you will pay the remaining balance, if you know you are ready get back to us so that we can givie you account information that you will use in paying the money,or you will die,

we point gun on you yesterday again to kill you but my boss ask us to wait if you will comply, we are giving you the last chance to co-operate with us or you face the reality.

Portions of e-mails from hitman scammers.Would one of you who feels so sorry for the scammers care to explain where victim greed enters in here?

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:18 pm

Prof, JoJo, YW I finaly was able to D/L and listen to the show. It Was great stuff. Congrats on your 15 mins. of fame. you guys deserve it. clapping

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 25 Sep 2008 Posts: 1

Great show guys. I just finished writing a summary of your story in easy to read English for the Korean engineers that work here in our R&D center. I'll be passing on this site and the story/videos to our English teachers - my company sponsors and English class where engineers learn how to write Emails for business. They should get a kick out of the whole thing Razz

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:55 pm

Hwangyong-hamnida, SatCong Very Happy

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 25 Sep 2008 Posts: 1

Hanguk mal chaaaaaaal moteyo Razz

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 2

I was very impressed both with the ingenuity of YW, JoJo, and the Prof, and the thoughtful reporting of Ira Glass. I laughed heartily throughout the show, and was entirely gleeful at the way Adamu continue to victimize himself in exactly the way he meant to be victimizing you guys.

I did think the radio coverage hed some shortcomings. While I understand Ira not wanting to use the word "Twat" on the air, he seems to have gone out of his way to avoid mentioning all of the sophomorically dirty jokes. "Reverend Benjamin" but not the surname "Dover," "a vaguely obscene reference to Mohammad" and not the name of the "church," which is intrinsic in that reference. I think those excisions are a little unfair, because those jokes are, to me, sort of "Fair Warning" that a smart enough lad would have picked up on.

I also thought it a shame that the way the Western Union offices were so incompetently run that they became de facto co-conspirators wasn't covered, as it was a great bit.

I think all of what you did was fair -- well, okay, not the "Mother's Dead" part -- because in each case, you simply laid bait, and the dishonesty of the lads led them onward. Every step of the way, you're feeding your lad a heaping helping of what he serves up to his victims. It's up to him whether or not he's going to swallow it.

That said, I do find I'm a bit uncomfortable witht he moral or ethical argument that he's a "bad person" and that it's therefore okay to do bad things to him. A bad thing is a bad thing. The character of the recipient really doesn't enter into it, and in some cases, I think you sort of "whistled past the graveyard" of some of the ethical questions. That said, I'm like the poster Ira quoted on the show. I'm laughing my head off. I'm just a bit uncomfortable while I'm doing it.

Anyway, well-done, and congrats on an amazing acheivement in scambaiting, and on a great half-hour of radio.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:59 am

^^^Welcome to eater!

Please click "Search" at the top of page and check out the "Ethics" threads of this forum. Wink

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:05 am

Welcome RandomNPRListener. Thanks for stopping in and sharing your well phrased thoughts. I think many of us have had our "wince" moments here; you're in good company. I hope you'll stick around and try your hand at something that is within your comfort zone. Very Happy

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 2

Corona wrote:

Please click "Search" at the top of page and check out the "Ethics" threads of this forum. Wink

I've read them. I don't entirely agree with them. Specifically, I don't think there is any corellation between whether or not something is right and who you do it to.

Prof, Yeawhatever & Jojo on the radio-This American Life	View next topic View previous topic