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 Legality of scambaiting

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saralk
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 1


PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Although I can see the irony in asking about the legality of scambaiting when the scammers are committing crimes. The part I am most concerned about, is the part where you ask them to book hotel rooms and other things for you.
In a way, you are getting them to pay money, in a reverse scam, and isn't that in itself illegal, as entrapment?

I am not questioning the ethics of scambaiting, I myself want to start doing this, however, I don't want to find myself in some sort of legal mess because I tried to be a vigilante.
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MaxPonage
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 30


PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:16 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

How can you get into a legal mess? The only possible way for you to get caught is for the scammer to report you, and in order to do that, he/she would have to admit to scamming you.
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homer_seshel
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 91


PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Someone correct me if I am wrong here, but as far a legality is concerned, what we do is not considered to be illegal unless we were benefitting financially at the end. We do not participate in what is referred to as "cashbaiting". We do not have them send us money. Having a lad spend their money is not illegal. They have the choice to spend that money if they wish. What we do is mainly waste their time and cost them as much money as we possibly can. The only benefit that we get out of it is the entertainment value, and of course knowing that as long as they are concentrating on us, they are not scamming a victim that actually falls for their scam.

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Mr Fishe
Baiting Guru


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

If you have concerns, itís pretty simple: donít do anything you are not comfortable with. There are plenty of other ways to waste a scammerís time without asking for hotel bookings.

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Tsnerd
Man in a Bunny Suit


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It's simple:
Don't do anything illegal- no cashbaiting, no bodily fluids/substances in the mail, no pipebombs, and no email virii or trojans.
As for:
Quote:
because I tried to be a vigilante.

Is that what you think baiting is? Confused

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Nurse Nasty
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Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm just really happy you see the irony in asking about the legality of scambaiting when the scammers are committing crimes.

If the worse I do is get some moron scammer to waste all his money of hotel booking and trips across his country it's seems a small price compared to the money lost and lives destroyed by their crimes.

Besides it's not illegal for scammers to spend their money. Just because I wove a web of creative deceit, doesn't mean I MADE him do it. I call that poetic justice. I'd love to see a lad try and sue one of us.

Also we're not vigilantes. We're bounty hunters. I get paid for this.... umm... doesn't everyone?

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Marvin
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Joined: 20 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^^ An awful lot! Rolling Eyes

Some people say that what we do as baiters can be "quasi-legal" which is very far removed from "illegal". We do have law enforcement officers and other members of the legal services (real lawyers!) amongst the membership.

There have been many discussions on the ethics of baiting, you should read them especially the sticky most eloquently(?) written by Shiver.

At the end of the day you must make your own mind up, but please do it armed with knowledge, don't just take someone's word for it. Moral and ethical decisions need understanding and due consideration, if you are unhappy with some of the simple things we ask lads to do because it involves them "spending money" then baiting really is not for you.

If you ask a lad to book a hotel room for you the very last thing he is going to do is put his hand in his own pocket for you. At the best he will use a stolen CC, they do that more than you may realise. The market is huge and brisk.

Scammers do what they do of their own free will (some will argue about that point). So do we! The difference is they're acting in a criminal manner we're trying to stop them.

This is not a game, this is war!

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Last edited by Marvin on Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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loading...
Master of Master Baiters


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

just remember that they dont have to do anything we ask of them, they have a choice but they do it because they see it a mean to scam money. whats a photo with a fish on your head if you get $5500 for it?

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Duncan Disorderly
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Joined: 29 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

.... and the chances of one of them hopping on a plane to UK to make a statement to the police accusing you of a crime are pretty remote too
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Novice Navis
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 88


PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
I get paid for this.... umm... doesn't everyone?


A wealthy Iranian businessman dying from esophageal cancer offered me USD $2,000.00 for each scammer scalp I sent to him. But now I have to pay demurrage fees...
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Dinnertime Mbuzo
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Off topic, but thats a great username Dunc. Laughing

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homer_seshel
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 91


PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:57 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Actually for the "getting paid for doing this".... if you count all of the lotteries that I have won, I should be a gazillionair by now! Rolling Eyes

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GeneralAbacha
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Entrapment? No. Entrapment is not something that one (e.g. a baiter) could be charged with., rather it is a defence against prosecution, i.e. where an accused claims to have been lured, generally by an agent of the state, into a previously uncontemplated criminal act.

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Marvin
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

When the SAPS were co-operating with the baiting community entrapement was a big issue and certain things could not be done in baiting the lads to get a conviction.

Entrapement laws vary greatly from country to country

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Yastreb
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Joined: 04 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

As I understand it, given that the Lad approaches you (albeit via a mass emailing), it's can't be entrapment in the first place.

The nature of entrapment is that it must involve an innocent party being drawn into the commission of an offence s/he would not have committed without the action of the entrapper. I don't see how that could apply to the baiter.

(Of course, as Marvin said, entrapment laws vary over the world, but deep down that principle would remain... right?)

I don't know where that leaves those who harvest a Lad from the spare Mugu thread, though. Wink

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Tsnerd
Man in a Bunny Suit


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, unfortunately, they're screwed.
They can expect knocks on the door now anyday from the Internet Enforcement and Fairness Enforcement people.
Harassment.
Picking on a lad.
Dirty language.
Misuse of goat porn.
The list goes on and on.
...poor bastards and bastardettes.

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Toussaint Tatsugi
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I would be real happy to march into any Court in the World having pulled a lad from the spare mugu files and argue that it was not entrapment... the letter was originally sent out indiscriminantly by the lad, ergo he has no legal footing if his litter is picked up by someone other than the massive list he sent it to, and since everything he says and promotes with that email is false to begin with- he has no legal footing to complain that he has been duped in any way.

It's like the bank robber who demands $25,000 and complains to the judge after his arrest that he was cheated by the bank because they only gave him $10,000 during the robbery.

Other than that- the personal boundaries issue has been addressed eloquently by those above me. Do only what you feel personally comfortable with, don't vilate the social principles that we have established for the community, and stay safe at all times. Just because I am willing to go so far as to suggest they will prove themselves to me if they gargle bleach doesn't mean that is suitable for you.

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rumbero
"Professional Liar"


Joined: 06 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Entrapment ??????

There is no entrapment from the baiters. We are just simply following the request of the mugus to ensure that their scam turns out to be 100 % risk free. They want money, we give them money.

What else would a mugu want.
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Novice Navis
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 88


PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:31 am Reply with quoteBack to top

To be honest, I usually just fake the WU forms to humiliate them. I can't afford to send a lad real money.
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Gnasher
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:56 am Reply with quoteBack to top

If you are baiting safe as a fictitious character in a country other than the one you actually live in and using fake details with anonymous and untraceable email address - which you should be - how the hell is a lad going to report you in the first place? If he decides to book a hotel room for a person who does not exist that's his problem.

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SlayerFaith
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:38 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Novice Navis wrote:
To be honest, I usually just fake the WU forms to humiliate them. I can't afford to send a lad real money.

PLEASE tell me that was a joke! Shocked

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Bowline
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Here's my take. If you just "play along" with the scam, do what ever they ask you (only wrong), and basically waste their time and whatever money is incidental to their plans (including hotels and such), I can't imagine any law you would be breaking.

But, if you offer them money and then don't pay when they keep their end of the bargain (e.g. "meeting" you 100 miles away, riding a goat naked, or whatever) then basicaly you have started a whole seperate scam. The only difference is that you know it's a scammer you're targeting. But I don't see how that would make a difference legally.

If you're not profiting, it might not be criminal, but I think they would be (legally) justified to sue you for expenses.

Of course they know they're criminals so it's highly unlikely they would go to the law for help, even if they could figure out who you are.
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rumbero
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Joined: 06 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

You mean I would be responsible for having my potential future models pay for professional photo shoots. Laughing Laughing
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Novice Navis
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 88


PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

SlayerFaith wrote:
Novice Navis wrote:
To be honest, I usually just fake the WU forms to humiliate them. I can't afford to send a lad real money.

PLEASE tell me that was a joke! Shocked


???

You mean, you don't fake the WU forms? I thought Shiver Metimbers did it that way. I mean, what's the point of sending your mugu real money? It ceases to be a bait and then it turns into a successful scam on their part, which is what we're trying to stop, right?
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SlayerFaith
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Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:38 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^^
What I meant was, tell me the part about wanting to send them them real money is a joke. From your response, I can see that it is. Laughing
As for sending fakey WU forms... applications... psychological tests, handwriting analysis samples, personality profiles, the more the merrier! Wink

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