Innoculation for new folks.

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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:16 am

Just wondering, seems like we hear from a lot of new folks who are already into baits with real contact info, ect, already sent. Is there a way for a new enlistee to be taken right to NN's "vaccination" information, with a plea to read the whole thing before they start? Of course, most seem to start first without reading anything. I know it might be redundant, if they read the home page stuff, but... I dunno, just trying to imagine a way we could cut down on possible trouble for anyone. I know I was very anxious to get going when I first started, as a lot of people seem to be. But maybe a reminder of the basics would be good? And how to post to the forum? I certainly am no expert at any thing Forum or, computer. For anyone new reading this, if you have real info out there, in the hands of interlopers, STOP ALL CONTACT WITH THEM! Sorry for yelling. Read all the sticky topics at the top of the forums first. Read them again. Take a week, seriously, to get aquainted with techniques, and advice. Relax, be patient, and learn. Enjoy the stories. Find a mentor. Be "invisible" as possible on the "net". Bait safe. This activity, I think anyway, is more than a game to be played, even though it usually seems like it is. It can actually become very serious. Don't take it lightly. It takes time. There is a learning curve, believe me. There is a dicipline involved. I've been here a little while, and consider myself very new. I might even be out of line posting this. It's like learning Chess, as a respected Moderator has stated. There are many nuances, and strategies to be learned. Throttle back, and take it all in, start slow, then, go for the throat! I haven't yet myself, I have more to learn. Experience is your friend. Knowledge is your weapon. Gain it, and use it wisely. Thanks all.
Joe.

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:24 am

Joe most new comers receive a "hi welcome to eater" pm, which also includes the innoculation post by NN Very Happy

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:30 am

Thank you Lotta, just seemed like we have a lot of new folks lately letting info out into the wild. Worrisome for me. Lock this if you need to.

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:04 am

From a newbie, I agree. A week perusing these pages would be minimum. Laughing

There's some incredible learning opportunities to be had around here.

As a mod on a very different type of site, I gotta say, you lot have an eloquent style of patience with newbies which is not often found these days. Twisted Evil

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:18 am

AOL!

Seriously, I thought it was just a darn good idea to lurk for a week or two prior to trying anything out. I think its very important to ensure that newbies, myself amongst them, know not to give out real info, etc., etc. I think ya'll do a great job at that, and I'm not really certain how to improve it.

My only thought would be to somehow limit account creation.... I don't know how far to take it; you could simply mail a copy of the FAQ (not a link, but a copy) to anyone who registers, or you could go so far as to assign mentors and require them to contact/discuss with a mentor before getting access to the accounts.

Of course, a Nazi policy like that could also just stop people from joining and seeing all the good advice here. Heck, maybe you could make people take a little quiz before an account can be created -- wrong answers direct you to the FAQ. Something like:

Giving your real name, address, or phone number to a lad is:
(a) A timesaver,
(b) A way to prove your bravery,
(c) The only legal way to bait, or
(d) Dangerous and unneccessary.

Baiting Guru Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 4747

Good posts I may disappear but people who�ve been around here know, I am always baiting in one way or another.

Educate yourself, in as many ways as possible, read past baits, both sides it gives you some insight on how the mugus �mind� (what they call a mind) works.

In the past I have conducted various experiments, for my own purposes. I collect as many emails as I can and try different things. I am looking for things that can provoke a response as quickly and as intensely as possible. It can be a challenge for even the most experience baiters to snap these mugus out of Zombie reply mode.

I mean if they get a response saying something like �hello my ebony love god.� They should assume it comes from some who isn�t interested in money. But some never read their replies. BTW the passport or ID for this is a naked picture of a transsexual. Shocked

At any rate given time and a full education you�ll be able to break a mugu out zombie mode in record time.

Another step is to make what you�ve learned from baiting your own. Acceptably adapt everything you�ve learned so it will work for you.

Finally give everything a try, traditional baiting, bank hunting and killing, victim warning.

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:42 am

Many people start baiting before they even find about this website or even the term scambaiting. It is only after they do it for a while when they start tot do more research and stumble accross the eater.

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:56 am

One aspect that repeatedly crops up are people who are baiting - noble indeed - and then only later find forums such as this. And quite often we see unsafe baiting practices, such as a Yahoo addy, home addresses being given out et al. But we've all got that wonderful gift called hindsight.

All we can urge is bait safe, drop the current unsafe baits, and read, read, read.

There is a line from a song: Fools rush in where angels fear to tread - not that newbies are fools or that the more experienced are fireproof, but you know what I mean.

I sum up this mission as police work. You need to learn the rules, to be taken under the wing of a mentor, to learn patience, to be able to get into the mind of the mugu, to be a strategist, to remain in control.

There is another adage: softly, softly, catchee monkey.

Read, learn, digest, apply, have fun, win.

Just my 2 euro cents. Very Happy

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:17 am

I'm a comparative newbie too and nowhere near as experienced or skilled as the elite baiters here whose threads and advice are still a source of huge amounts of useful information and inspiration. I know newbies cannot be forced to do anything but I admit I sometimes find myself yelling at the screen 'How many times do we have to say this -READ THE *@&#^# STICKIES' when they start threads asking the basic questions about baiting like 'what is a safe email address' or 'how do I find a scam letter' etc. Even if you don't bother with the Stickies, even a cursory glance at ongoing baits or general baiting threads should at least point you in the right direction. It is very tempting indeed to get stuck in straight away which is fine provided the safe baiting precautions are observed but I fear they are frequently not. The Mods here to an excellent job in contacting newbies, organising mentors and generally giving a helping hand in the early days but I sometimes wonder now many 'vigilantes' are out there causing mayhem, often unintentionally.

And while I am in Supercreep mode, I think the general tone of this board is both 'professional' if that's the right description and not too esoteric or intimidating to visitors. Not only baiters but also, and more importantly perhaps, the occasional victim, potential victim or family/friend of a victim who comes here for advice, reassurance or assistance.

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:29 am

@Al Coholic

Can I phone a friend?

It seems to me that a lot of newcomers here don't take the time and the trouble to thoroughly read the Stickies and FAQs before diving in at the deep end. Perhaps the search button needs to be made bigger so it is easier to find?

Then there are those that post after the damage has already been down due to bravado/naivity.

Both types of newcomers (I hate the word noobies!) need a stiff dose of NN's medicine and the cold bed bath treatment. Twisted Evil

TS

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:58 am

well, as a newby myself, I have to give the old guys and girls here kudos. It was very clear to me that it was important to read, read, read and that's what I did first. So all the advice that's being typed onto those keyboards does get around. I think most new people here do read a lot before trying to bait because you lot put in a lot of effort to make it clear that it is more than just a nice hobby.

Plus, you are very nice to the new people. I never feel that I shouldn't ask stupid questions, because I might get flamed. Think you're doing a good job.

It might be a good idea to emphasize the need to read up and learn before baiting, but a questionnaire wouldn't be the best idea. I think it could stop people who would like to share their 'I got scammed' story, or people with urgent questions who were baiting in the wild, so to speak.

Maybe you could link to NN's vaccination on the mainpage. A nice clicky that says important read before you get started or something similar.

Baiting Guru Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 4747

May amend my previous comment. I believe that everyone should always read things when it comes to new ideas and tactics.

Sometimes, the greenist noob, can come across with brilliant ideas. Let not make this thing predicable. The mugus not knowing who is a legitimate mark or a baiter is our greatest asset.

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:42 am

An interesting post, especially for a newcomer. For what they're worth (free to you!), here are some of my thoughts on the inoculation issue.

On reading the stickys and so forth: Yes, as a new baiter I agree this should be "required" for anyone setting out. So too should some of the published works! Still, although I tried to take my time reading around the site for at least 3-4 weeks before setting out to hook my first mugu, I still worry that something I'm doing might not be safe. I can't think what that could possibly be... but guess this is part of being new since I�ve never had to cover my tracks like this before (and, yes I should have this safety talk in more detail with my mentor, as I�m sure everyone will suggest).

In any case, for the discussion here:

It seems from my new perspective there can be lot's of pitfalls someone wouldn�t normally think about. Like if you attach a Word document. Even if this goes out from your super secret gmail or hushmail account (so you are IP safe), the mugu can still easily click on properties to find your real name. Right?!? These sorts of things should be highlighted. Yes, the stickys are very useful (and so too is Nurse Nasty�s "welcome" note!), but I think I found this point on attachments in a thread and not a sticky. Makes me wonder what else I might not have thought about (are pictures and other attachments safe if they have been saved on my hard drive?)

In this case, maybe there could be a more detailed, or comprehensive sticky on �all the rules of safe baiting� � I�ve notice other newcomers asking for this as well. Say a kind of comprehensive checklist that covers the full set of safety procedures, including these more �advanced� (or at least less transparent) topics. If set up like a kind of �baiting for dummys� post, there could also be recommendations on published works a newcomer should read � this one is good for learning how to hook a mugu, this one is good to learn the rules of subtlety, this one teaches you not to go crazy in the beginning, etc. Try this sort of scam for your first bait; don't try that type it is too difficult (or dangerous) to crack. And so on. The FAQs already do a lot of this, but as with most things in life, can still be improved.

Likewise, regarding the search feature, I have used this, but must say that I find it a little difficult to really find what I want since there aren�t many ways to limit your terms and filter the results. Perhaps this is also something that could be looked into? Just an idea�

I hope these thoughts from an aspiring baiter help. And, of course, thank you very much to everyone for the truck loads of information that is out there already!!! Very Happy

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:44 am

Ref the Search facility. To be honest I don't always find it very helpful. I guess because the board is so big you have to use very specific search words in order to come even close to what you are looking for (if you know what you are looking for in the first place) and sometimes even quite detailed searches give several pages of hits which you then have to plough through hoping to strike lucky. It sometimes feels like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack.

So I ask my sainted mentor instead Laughing

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:06 am

There are a great number of new members asking simple questions about IP's or asking what do I do next? Is this a scam ?

Not new to baiting, I have been in the forum for a short while and I still find myself going back and reading the different forums.

As mentioned before, Too many noobies are going for the trophies or for the saffaries. Often failing and thus making big time errors in their baiting, thus making it harder for other baiters to set up the mugus for a trophy or possible saffari. Trophy hunting for the noobies is like educating the mugu, every time they fail the mugu becomes a bit more educated about being baited.

To all new members baiting is like a chess game the only difference is that you don't get to see your opponent. If you don't know how to play read, start very slow with simple straight baiting. One bait at a time.

@ Joe Tam Thank for posting , It was way over due.

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:18 am

The trouble with a forum format is that it does not present information in a very structured manner. Okay, it has sort of 'top down' hierarchy but often the important information is at the end of a thread instead of at the beginning.

A search facility is not always helpful if you don't even know the terms (or jargon) you are looking for. A forum presents information in a random access way, like a magazine and not in a serial way like a novel or movie. As such, the important information does not come first but is hidden several layers down.

At the top there are stickies - all vying for attention and trying to make themselves look more important than the others. The more there is, the greater the confusion. Wood. Trees...

If a newcomer doesn't find important information, it is not just his/her fault, it takes two to communicate and the nature of the beast (a web forum) is fundamentally not a good communicator when it comes to prioritising information. Yes, the same questions will be asked and answered repeatedly over time and there will be more threads about the "Man forced to marry goat" story started and locked.

I don't know of any way around this Crying or Very sad

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:19 am

How about a test? Once you sign up, you get taken to a page containing everything you need to know, and before you can continue you have to pass a multiple choice test. Smile

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:26 am

^The problem with that is that I learnt most by reading the posts. Can't do that without signing up. Plus, sometimes people get scammed and want to share their story. Not sure they would like to fill out a test before being able to do so. It would be nice to have a test on a voluntary basis. So people can do this test, see if they know enough, build up their confidence before baiting, or learn a thing or two they didn't know yet.

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:53 am

But what about those of us who can't read? like me Wink

I enjoy the challenge of just jumping in with both feet in most things but even I had a good read before I started baiting Twisted Evil

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:12 pm

Mr. Green wrote:

...... Like if you attach a Word document. Even if this goes out from your super secret gmail or hushmail account (so you are IP safe), the mugu can still easily click on properties to find your real name. Right?!? These sorts of things should be highlighted. Yes, the stickys are very useful (and so too is Nurse Nasty�s "welcome" note!), but I think I found this point on attachments in a thread and not a sticky.....

You might well have found it elsewhere but it is in a sticky. See @scamphisher's posting on page 1 of: Scambaiting help hints and tips - Free stuff for baiters. Wink

The amount of information to read can be irritating, particularly when you are all fired up and want to get on with baiting. For some it might even be daunting, particularly if one finds literacy a demanding task, or English is not your native language. However the stickies are there to help and there are also warnings such as found here http://www.419eater.com/html/baiting.htm

If someone doesn't want to sign up for a mentor what can be done? It is always difficult to protect someone from themselves. As I recall, my own mentor on this forum said to spend a week reading all of the stickies before doing anything, and on another forum I was advised to spend time reading the stickies and then read them again. Sound advice.

I would agree the format is not the most helpful, but is there an easier solution?

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:31 pm

^^^^ Thanks, Inspector! A good reminder to read, read, and read some more!!!

On the "warnings link" you provide, I notice the advice on what type of email accounts to use just says hotmail or gmail (doesn't mention IP masking). I believe this is on the "public side" of the Eater site before you register as a user. I can easily see some casual visitor opening up a hotmail account and diving right in... Uh oh!

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:44 pm

The object with an email a/c is to hide your IP address. I believe most of us have dumped Hotmail, Yahoo and ISP's own e.g. AOL, Wanadoo, Tiscali et al, although these can be hidden by proxy, but I'm not au fait with that.

So, use gmail/googlemail, fastmail, hushmail, fanmail. These hide your IP address and you can use endless aliases.

Divorce yourself in ALL respects from your real identity.

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:49 pm

I think the problem (which isn't really a problem) is that everyone's right...

The information here is fantastic, but...
There's so much of it, it's easy to miss something, and...
Sometimes it's hard to know how to get 'search' to find what you're looking for...

BUT...

The way that posts are handled and answered is superb - better than any other forum I've ever participated in.

From my personal point of view, as a technical numpty, I found (well, I still find) trawling through the more technical aspects difficult and timeconsuming and tedious and boring, but it often has to be done when I have to solve a particular problem.

Everyone has their 'blind spot' and I think that the patience shown by most responses is great and that this will always be necessary, no matter how irritating it might be.

And sometimes we all need to be told things more than once.

Hats off to the patient experience members/mods who keep this whole show on the road Smile

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:59 pm

A baiting FAQ would be a good start don't you think? or a complete idiots guide to safe baiting Very Happy

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:16 pm

Lucifer The Dark wrote:

A baiting FAQ would be a good start don't you think? or a complete idiots guide to safe baiting Very Happy

Read the Stickies Laughing

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