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 I don't get it.

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Jason_dinAlt
Wannabe Baiting Guru


Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 1824
Location: Down Under


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:20 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Agent Smith wrote:
mrlukeplease wrote:
How often do these scammers succeeed? Are there any statistics?


No one really knows for sure, but the smallest reasonable estimate is that 419 scams take in several billion USD annually. .


There are definately some very sucessfull guyman out there:

Quote:
a Lagos High Court, Ikeja, sentenced a middle-aged man to 376 years imprisonment for defrauding an American national of about $1.9 million


Quote:
suspects are being prosecuted by the Economic and Financial Crimes
Commission for their alleged involvement in various economic crimes, including two
separate scams valued at N58 million and $15 million respectively.


1.9 and 15 million may seem big bucks, but is chicken feed compared to this:

Quote:
Two Nigerians were convicted in an international fraud scheme that led to the collapse of a Brazilian bank, anti-corruption officials said.

Frank Nwude and Nzeribe Okoli were found guilty of working with an official of Banco Noroeste of Sao Paolo to steal $242 million over seven years

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PsycheDelia_Smith
Baiting Guru


Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 3573
Location: Devon, UK


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

To most lads, all westerners are stupid, rich, greedy people. There are so many active lads, and so many new recruits coming into the game all the time, only a very small percentage know when a wind-up is in progress, and out of those, probably an even smaller percentage know about baiters as an organised community.

Some lads are doomed to failure from the outset, and what baiters do helps to keep it that way. The best baiters here play it mostly straight, looking like a genuine victim to even the most experienced, high-level 419 scammer.

_________________
SATISFIED CLIENTS:
"I was forced to sell off my designers black suit to be able to return back to Ouagadougou and on my coming back here my wife
took me to the cyber cafe and showed me the site where my photographs of circumcision was put on the net."-'Tosser' 0gugu0

"I am now completely twatted and shagged and will obey all your instructions to the fullest."-"Tosser" Oguguo

Golden Pith "Frankily speaking,I wouldn't want to travel to the far east again."-Edward Smith, Lagos-Singapore (14600 miles round trip via Dubai)


9x Safari 4 x Lagos-Accra , 3x Port Harcourt - Ibadan, 1x Lagos-Singapore, 1x Burkina-Bamako
Netherlands Nigeria Ghana South Africa
Sand Timer'Ed', 3 yrs 8 mnths Sand Timer'Oguguo',6 years and 4 months
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mrpukeplease
Master Baiter


Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 159
Location: U.S. of A.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm not putting myself into the minds and surroundings of the the "lads."

Here I sit at my desk with last year's Mac (but we're all getting new G5s next week), the very latest PhotoShop and Illustrator, company-paid up-to-the-minute training, a LAN running into a full T1, and an insatiable curiousity that Google and Nexis-Plexis can only begin to satisfy.

I believe my mistake may be in assuming that the "lads" have equal capabilities. That they're sitting at home or in an office somewhere with their own high-powered machines, secure servers, dedicated domains, etc.

I've never been to Nigeria but I've spent time in China where--until recently--the average citizen accessed the Internet at a Cafe. I thought they were dirt-cheap to use, but then I get paid more than the average Chinese.

Reading all your posts and stories has opened up a world of possibilities to me. I've had a spoof web site for about 10 years, just put it up for fun one day because a friend of mine worked at a Chinese restaurant. I PhotoShopped my friend into a Chinese character, created a small restaurant chain (and even a few animated cartoons!) and had a few laughs when some people actually took it seriously*. The Internet being what it is, there are now dozens of legitimate restaurant review/business sites linking to my little spoof.

But now...this stuff with engaging crooks and beating them at their own game! Ma dad--rest his soul--always said "You can't con a con man." 419eater proves the opposite. Then again, my dad actually flew to Nigeria with a suitcase full of cash. And once entered into a scheme to build a multimillion-dollar Jamaican resort out of fly ash (cinders).

I can't wait to get a foot into the game. Tell me, is there a formal name for the baiting, like "Reverse Scam" or "The Nigerian Double-Flip" or something clever?


*If ou're interested, the site is http://www.geocities.com/mrlukeplease
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PsycheDelia_Smith
Baiting Guru


Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 3573
Location: Devon, UK


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

mrlukeplease wrote:
Tell me, is there a formal name for the baiting, like "Reverse Scam" or "The Nigerian Double-Flip" or something clever?


Yep.Scambaiting. Smile

Bait safe, btw. And welcome!

_________________
SATISFIED CLIENTS:
"I was forced to sell off my designers black suit to be able to return back to Ouagadougou and on my coming back here my wife
took me to the cyber cafe and showed me the site where my photographs of circumcision was put on the net."-'Tosser' 0gugu0

"I am now completely twatted and shagged and will obey all your instructions to the fullest."-"Tosser" Oguguo

Golden Pith "Frankily speaking,I wouldn't want to travel to the far east again."-Edward Smith, Lagos-Singapore (14600 miles round trip via Dubai)


9x Safari 4 x Lagos-Accra , 3x Port Harcourt - Ibadan, 1x Lagos-Singapore, 1x Burkina-Bamako
Netherlands Nigeria Ghana South Africa
Sand Timer'Ed', 3 yrs 8 mnths Sand Timer'Oguguo',6 years and 4 months
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sheboppe
The Sparkly Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 5002
Location: United States


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

mrlukeplease wrote:
Thanks for the replies so far.

How often do these scammers succeeed? Are there any statistics? I cannot understand why anyone would fall for it, but I suppose greed blinds people.


Greed, desperation and ignorance.

Think about the unemployed single mom that has 3 kids to support, has a lot of month left at the end of the money, and has doctor bills to meet for her youngest child who is sickly. She receives an e-mail promising her $20 million if she will provide a bank account and help transfer the money out of the country. Mom hasn't had time to learn about scams and how people get taken because between looking for employment, and taking care of the children, she barely has time to read her e-mail before she falls into bed at night. She knows that she has to come up with the money for groceries and the rent for the month, and right now that looks to be very difficult, if not impossible. This person must have somehow found out about her predicament because he said all of the right things, and he really cares because he asked about her family. She decides to provide her bank account information and help this nice man transfer his money out of his war-ravaged country because when she gets her $20 million, she won't have to worry about being able to provide for her kids so she sends her first reply...

Think about the elderly person on a fixed income.

Bill is widowed and lives alone. Ever since Martha died, he has been trying to get out a little and make new friends. His old friends are still there, but they are all couples, and he doesnít want to feel like three is a crowd. He goes to the senior center twice a week because that is all that he can afford to go, and he balances his checkbook very carefully so that he will be able to afford his medicine this month. He would love to have just one dinner out, or maybe go for a drive in the country, but he knows that if he spends more than he is allotted, he will have to forgo medicine, food, or heat. He sits at home most of the time and watches reruns of 60's television shows because he doesn't have cable, he canít afford to rent a movie, and he canít afford to buy a DVD player. His son, Alden, bought a new computer for his family, and decided to give Dad his old one. He takes it over to Dad's house, sets it up with Internet access (Alden will pay the $12.95 per month for dial-up for Dad) and shows him how to e-mail and browse the web. Alden is an accountant and a very busy man so he really doesnít have time to show and tell Dad about Internet scams.

Bill receives an e-mail from a woman that promises to give him $25 million if he will help her move her money out of Africa. Her husband was killed and she doesnít have any children to help her, and people are being viciously killed in her country. She wants out, and all he has to do is provide a bank account to transfer the money into and pay a small fee to the woman's lawyer and the $25 million will be transferred to his account immediately. Bill is so relieved that he will no longer have to worry about which one he can buy this month, food or medicine, so he agrees to make do with eating only once a day so that he will be able to help the nice lady transfer her money. Besides that, she is SO friendly! She calls him honey, and said that she would like to come to his country and meet him, and hinted that she would like to be his next wife. A new friend, Bill thinks, and friends will help friends, right? There also might be a chance of romance he tells himself...

Does this help to answer your question? Smile

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blarg
Master of Master Baiters


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 629
Location: Lagos, Nigeria


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

you forgot the young college student.

sent off to college on their own for the very first time. They get an email saying they've won the lottery and after they contact the "lottery commission" it turns out that they have to pay the taxes on the money. The student runs to the nearest ATM and starts taking cash advances on the credit card his parents gave him "for emergencies" until its maxed out and send the money to the lottery commission to pay the tax on the millions of dollars. They promise to have the first payment ho him fast enough to repay the credit card before the bill comes.

of course there will be no payment.

(true story...know someone in college who did this).

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appy2cu
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 3


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

need some evidence? looks like someone has taken the time to assemble:

http://www.nigeriamasterweb.com/419News.html
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SlayerFaith
"Loves her joy stick"


Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 5778
Location: Vegas, baby!


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well done, Sheboppe! If you don't mind, I will add a bit to your post...

Firstly there's Norman, a man of 30 who lives with his parents because he has MS and a recent bone marrow transplant is preventing him from holding down steady employment. He would like nothing better than to move on with his adult life and repay his parents for their support. Into his email box comes the life-changing news that he has won the lottery! All he has to do to collect his millions is send $600 to the courier who will be delivering his cheque...

And Sandy, a lovely lady who happens to have leukemia. She works 60-80 hours a week because she has to keep the job that provides her medical coverage, and she knows that if her cancer comes out of remission she will only have her savings to live on. Sandy is deeply religious, and her faith is what keeps her going. Into her email box comes a message from a fellow Christian who desperately needs her help to get his family fortune out of a war-torn country before it is stolen by corrupt gov't officials. For her help, Sandy will receive enough money to make her worries about how to pay for her medical treatments and living expenses if she can't work anymore disappear. Sandy isn't internet savvy and doesn't know much about search engines, so she asks friends and family about this offer. Unfortunately, in her small town internet fraud is not well known and not even the nice ladies at the library know about it. In the meantime, her new friend is getting more and more desperate. His kids are now seriously ill, the corrupt officials are looking for him, and he will most likely be killed soon. All Sandy has to do to save his entire family and secure her future is send a thousand of her hard earned dollars to Mr. Williams at the security company....

Now meet Todd, a single father in the midwest. Due to industry cutbacks, Todd has been looking for work for over a year but has yet to find a job, as the job market in his area is nearly nonexistant. His son has cancer, and Todd has no health insurance. He keeps the cheapest dial-up connection going in order to apply for jobs and research treatment options and aid available for his son. His unemployment won't last much longer, and Todd is desperate. The winning notification from the UK lottery comes to him as a surprise! For a mere $400 USD (his grocery money for the next month), Todd will get his winnings and be able to get the best medical care for his son....

Wonder what kind of "rich, stupid westerners" the mugus really target? See above. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

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dan
Master Baiter


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 144
Location: [email protected]'


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:53 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
I'm not putting myself into the minds and surroundings of the the "lads."

No need to go there. Shocked
Breakthroughs in MRI technology have already allowed scientists to unlocked the mysteries of the Mugu Mind. If you ever need to know what a mugu thinking, just refer to this research data:

[mod edit: pic removed, we've had big problems here with that pic in that past. - KD]

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sheboppe
The Sparkly Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

@blarg - I agree - I missed the college student. I should have remembered though because I am a college student and gave a speech on 419 and fake check scams in my speech class last summer. Out of 36 students in the class, only 4 even knew anything about Internet scams, and most of the students where I attend college are older students like me.

@SlayerFaith - excellent addition to my post. I think we have described who falls for these scams quite well. Very Happy

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Agent Smith
419Eater is my life


Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 290


PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

dan wrote:
If you ever need to know what a mugu thinking, just refer to this research data:

[mod edit: pic removed, we've had big problems here with that pic in that past. - KD]


Yes, their brains will really fit on a thumbnail. Razz
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louise.slyna
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 56
Location: somewhere near the final frontier


PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

mrlukeplease wrote:
Here I sit at my desk with last year's Mac (but we're all getting new G5s next week), the very latest PhotoShop and Illustrator, company-paid up-to-the-minute training, a LAN running into a full T1, and an insatiable curiousity that Google and Nexis-Plexis can only begin to satisfy.

For us in the "1st world" we take it quite for granted having the money to buy new computers and of course we don't run short of offers. In almost every kind of shop you can buy PCs or notebooks at low prices. I doubt they have the same opportunities in Nigeria, not to mention the common earnings over there. Plus, most of the young people here have grown up with computers, so it's a familiar world to us. We don't even need commercial software, we can just use open-source alternatives which serve more than enough. The average lad won't be able to do this.

I'm also new to this forum, but have known this site quite a while. I have read lots and lots of posts and scambaiting stories, every no and then articles picked up a story about victims in the local press. My conclusion from that is, most lads start as simple henchmen for the "veterans" in the background. They get taught how to use e-mail, money transfer services, get equipped with drafts and samples of letters. If they need forged documents they probably have to pay for it. The successful ones may have experience, better connections and more money, but I doubt lots of more brains.

cheers,
Louise
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mrpukeplease
Master Baiter


Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 159
Location: U.S. of A.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The most obvious suggestion that arises from reading these anecdotal and fictional accounts is this: Internet safety should be a required course in our public schools. Starting at the kindergarten level.

Snowball me with facts and statistics if you will, buit I'm still dumbfounded when confronted with the greed, stupidity and gullibility exhibited by both culprits and victims of the 419 scams.

Then again, I bought Lotto tickets yesterday. Where does that leave me? Embarassed
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Hamm On Wry
419Eater is my life


Joined: 23 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Then again, I bought Lotto tickets yesterday. Where does that leave me? Embarassed


The lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math!

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blarg
Master of Master Baiters


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 629
Location: Lagos, Nigeria


PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think some lads (especially the newer ones) work without a script. They start with "Beggar" scams, which I'm sure just skate the law, since there is no "acvance fee" for a huge pile of money you never get. Instead they just beg you for money for one reason or another (and the reasons are false).

I have a lad now that I've been baiting for a while (he has a very painful looking tattoo, provided by yours truly). I keep trying to get him to say something that would drop him squarely into the 419 cattegory, but he's been avoiding me. In fact for a while, there I was arfaid that he would never give me any difinitive proof that he's a scammer other than the fact that the only way he could have found my email account was to use the same methods used by the 419 crew, and I KNOW he's a scammer. FINALLY after several weeks of abuse and mental angush (his, not mine Smile) He has sacked up and started "encouraging" an older retired woman (played by yours truly) to empty her retirement account and send the money to him to "prevent girls from turning to prostitution". He's been getting nowhere with me, and I think he's new. The way that little gem came off he must think its a stroke of brillience on his part...he sent it to ALL my characters Smile. Maybe I can force him into early retirement before this is all over.

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Mr. Charles Soludo"It is not the proceedure in the banking system for someone to collect or money delivered without payment information, most importantly the MTCN. I hope this is not a fowl play."
Mr. Jimmy Charlse"Like what I told you before is that is 100% free Ricky"
Mr.Boga J.Seabra Correia"CHRISTANITY IS NOT DEMOCRACY LIKE POLITICS.OK."
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FatherGuidoSarducci
Master Baiter


Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 219
Location: The Vatican


PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

blarg wrote:
I think some lads (especially the newer ones) work without a script. They start with "Beggar" scams, which I'm sure just skate the law, since there is no "acvance fee" for a huge pile of money you never get. Instead they just beg you for money for one reason or another (and the reasons are false).


It's still deception and false prentense which is illegal under their law.

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louise.slyna
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 56
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hamm On Wry wrote:
The lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math!

Good one Very Happy
At least you can be sure the money exists and will be paid to you in case the Gods of math show mercy... Smile.
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blarg
Master of Master Baiters


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 629
Location: Lagos, Nigeria


PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

you know...even in a REAL lottery the odds are only SLIGHLY better than they are in a 419 scam.

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Mr. Charles Soludo"It is not the proceedure in the banking system for someone to collect or money delivered without payment information, most importantly the MTCN. I hope this is not a fowl play."
Mr. Jimmy Charlse"Like what I told you before is that is 100% free Ricky"
Mr.Boga J.Seabra Correia"CHRISTANITY IS NOT DEMOCRACY LIKE POLITICS.OK."
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ShoreDevil
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Joined: 05 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

From topic to Grave:

it's not just the time lads would consume on ps installs, but also the time to master the art of forgery with it. If you are very creative and own an accurate eye and are total noob to photoshop, i'd say about in 6hrs you could come up with authentic passport/ID card. But most people aren't, and i believe that even fewer lads are. Concidering the patience it requiers, i find it really hard to believe that lads would be up for it.

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blarg
Master of Master Baiters


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 629
Location: Lagos, Nigeria


PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think they'd also be reluctant to pay for 6 hours of computer-time at the internet cafe working on one passport when they can just sent out 400 emails in a few minutes ASKING for one...someone will send it.

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Mr. Charles Soludo"It is not the proceedure in the banking system for someone to collect or money delivered without payment information, most importantly the MTCN. I hope this is not a fowl play."
Mr. Jimmy Charlse"Like what I told you before is that is 100% free Ricky"
Mr.Boga J.Seabra Correia"CHRISTANITY IS NOT DEMOCRACY LIKE POLITICS.OK."
Mr. Chike Agbugba "THANK GOD YOU ARE BACK AND ALIVE AGAIN"
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sheboppe
The Sparkly Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 5002
Location: United States


PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

mrlukeplease wrote:
The most obvious suggestion that arises from reading these anecdotal and fictional accounts is this: Internet safety should be a required course in our public schools. Starting at the kindergarten level.


Mine weren't fictional but the names were changed to protect the innocent. Smile

I agree with your statement above, however, many people STILL give out personal and financial information to the scammers because the scammers gain the trust of the intended victim. Scammers are master manipulators, and know exactly how to work their victims. They can be very relentless - I have had baits that went on for well over a year because the lad kept working on me to gain my trust every time I said, "Well, I'm not sure if I should send the money..."

Once the scammer has built a good rapport with the victim, the rest is usually history.

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mrpukeplease
Master Baiter


Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 159
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

That "Bill" story sounded a lot like a Romany romance scam.
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sheboppe
The Sparkly Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 5002
Location: United States


PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

"Bill" was taken for around $1000 by the time it was over. That is not a great deal of money, but it is to someone that is on a fixed income. It was a romance scam and the use of romance is how the scammer won Bill's trust and confidence.

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SlayerFaith
"Loves her joy stick"


Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:11 am Reply with quoteBack to top

sheboppe wrote:
Mine weren't fictional but the names were changed to protect the innocent. Smile

Same here. All 3 stories I posted were real scam victims. Evil or Very Mad

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MattNW
419Eater is my life


Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 264


PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Jason_dinAlt wrote:


As for question 1, you would be suprised to know the amount of guyman who have absolutely no idea baiting exists, it is a completely foreign thought to them. Some do know about baiting though, mainly through having been baited, and they usually refer to us baiters as "jokers"


That's about it. I sent out some insults to a batch of lads and the replies I got were mostly on the order of, "You are an idle fool."

They don't see baiting as an organized fight against the scams. We are merely jokers who play around with scammers for fun. Once again it's due to the perception that westerners are a bunch of fat lazy fools who lay around their fancy homes eating Mc Donalds burgers by the pound, counting their piles of money and playing jokes on "real" businessmen (that's what they think of themselves as). The ones who know of baiting look on it mostly as childish pranks.

Between that perception, the cost of cafe time and the mass approach to scamming most lads don't worry about taking the time to check things like email addys and names.

That however makes baiting an even more effective tool. The best weapon is one an enemy doesn't even recognize as a weapon until it's too late.
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