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 My parents aren't happy about the idea of scambaiting

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Keytool
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi, in case you didn't know, I'm 15 years old. My parents know that I've gotten into scambaiting, and they don't really like the idea. They've said its worrysome and unsettling that I've chosen it as my hobby.

If I gave information to police that lead to the arrest of a criminal, or assisted in slowing down a guy who robbed a store so the cops could catch him, my parents would be proud of me. I've told them that scambaiting is the same sort of concept, only safer.

I've also tried to get them to read the post on the ethics of scambaiting but they won't.

Any advice on what I should say to ease their concerns?

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Oz_Baiter
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

To be frankfully honest, if I were you I would listen to your parents.

They are right to be concerned, you are dealing with criminals and many if not all of us acknowledge the fact that this is a dangerous hobby if precautions are not adhered to. There really isn't much for us to say with respect to your online security as we can only go on your own word, it's not like you have a mentor in the flesh watching your every move.

It is commonly accepted here that a minimum age of baiters should be 18 or 21, but like everything on the internet you are only as old as you say you are. The question has been put to the staff here many times "how can we enforce an age limit" and the simple answer is that we cannot but we qualify that statement by saying anyone who is not of an age to make decisions for themselves legally should accept the advice of those charged with their legal responsibility.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but better to say things straight than toy around with the question.

Cheers,

Oz.

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Keytool
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:38 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm not gonna get banned now, am i? Confused

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Oz_Baiter
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:40 am Reply with quoteBack to top

No, infact a couple of our most respected members are aged under 18.

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Mark Time
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:45 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Understand that they'll always be worried here. Even if they do read about the ethics of baiting the lads, they may not feel comfortable with it. I won't pretend to know what's going on inside your parents' minds, but at a guess, I'll say they're worried that you'll spend too much time baiting the lads and not enough time on school and other wholesome activities Razz

Remember also that a lot of people won't necessarily understand the modalities and motivations behind baiting. Yes, it can be fun, but these people are criminals - never lose sight of that fact. The chances of the lads finding you are next to none, but it's the job of a parent to worry.

Personally, I'd take the time to explain WHY it'll be hard to get in strife with the lads. Explain the concept of IPs and email headers if necessary.

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Keytool
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

They haven't outright forbidden me from doing it, but they're definitely concerned, and I'd really like to assure them that I'm not doing anything illegal and going the extra mile to bait safe.

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Mr. Baitor
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:56 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well I'm 15 as well. My parents know that I scambait and basically the only rules that they put on me are thus: 1) Never ever send any REAL personal information including my own picture. 2) Never ever talk to a lad on the phone. 3) Never spend more time scambaiting then doing more productive activities.

I explained to my parents that scambaiting has really taught me that there are really wicked, sleezy, scumbags out there who will do anything to get money from innocent people. I told them that I am very very safe and if they ever want to see any of my baits that is fine. In fact my dad even pitches in on ideas. The best way to get on the good side of parents is to tell the absolute truth and don't hide anything from them. They will in turn give you much more trust and allow you to do things that maybe they wouldn't have considered before.

Bait safe,
Mr. Baitor
Keytool
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Mr. Baitor wrote:
In fact my dad even pitches in on ideas.


That's beyond cool.

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ABOUTH THIS DEEL ENEYMOR? -Arinze Larry

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dlamour
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Perhaps you could print out some of the stories in the published works area for your parents. Let them read it and perhaps they might undertand.

However, if I agree with Oz on this. But you should also know that parents never stop worrying about their children, even after they're adults Cool That's called love.

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Mark Time
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Agreed there. I'd be more concerned if your parents weren't worried for you. Definitely be honest with them, and I suspect they'll probably freak if you tried phone baiting the lads. Certainly I would, but then again nobody would be more surprised than I am to discover I have offspring in the first place Shocked Laughing

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WAS VERY SHOCKING AND MIND BOGGLING." I thought it looked cute!
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Tsnerd
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I appreciate that your parents haven't forbidden you from baiting. If they do I would encourage you to honor their wishes. I'm quite certain that none of us would advocate ignoring your parents.
As for getting your parents on board: if this is something that you really want to do, the best way to ensure your parents' involvement is by your actions. Keep baiting safe, don't let your baiting interfere with your other activities such as school, sports, dating, spending time with your family and friends. Nothing upsets a parent more than when their son or daughter start barricading themselves in their room.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:11 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The fact is, it's not easy to explain baiting to people who aren't involved. I'm well beyond 15 (alas) and my parents are long gone but my wife is very fearful for me and my daughter -- who is 20 -- is also afraid of what I do. There's no way I can convince them that I've learned how to bait safe. They may be more right than I am -- this is a strange and potentially dangerous hobby. But I see it as you do, a small but effective way to fight crime. I realize my personal experience doesn't help much in your situation, but perhaps it puts things in perspective, no one who is not active is really able to understand what this is about. I agree with Oz, this activity should be restricted to people of legal age, but there are people under 18 who are mature enough to handle it. Just BE CAREFUL. Bait safe. As for convincing your parents, well, if you figure out how to do that please let me know. I'd like to convince my wife......

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crashhoot
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:53 am Reply with quoteBack to top

@Keytool

Please understand that that I am speaking as both a scambaiter, and as a parent. I have children both older and younger than you. If I didn't know about scambaiting, and suddenly found out that my fifteen year old was involved in it, then yes, I would be very concerned.

Are you baiting safe? Do you have a mentor? Can these scammers track you down? You have been a member here for less than a month. Do you really understand the risks involved?
These are the questions I would ask as a parent.

As a scambaiter, I'd say try to involve your parents as much as possible.
Ask them to sign up to these fora, or visit as guests, so they can see for themselves.
Or maybe they would feel more comfortable if they could e-mail one of the MOD's or ADMIN's here (or myself, for that matter) to discuss your situation.

Quote:
I've also tried to get them to read the post on the ethics of scambaiting but they won't.

Try printing it out and handing it to them. That might help them to understand what we are doing here.

Or, perhaps you could offer them a compromise. You will only read and post on these fora, and not actively 'scambait', until they are comfortable with what you are doing.

Whatever the outcome, I would ask you to respect your parents wishes. After all, they do have your best interest at heart.

**EDIT**
And please show this thread to your parents, so they know that we also have your best interest at heart! Wink

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Chief2B
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Maturity and responsibility are key words. I would forbid my 14 and 16yo sons from scambaiting because deep down I know that somewhere down the line they would screw up strictly because they are not mature or responsible enough to bait.
If you fill these two qualifications, I would say "bait on" as long as you had a responsible "mentor" to guide your way.
If you do have a mentor, explain to them that an "expert" reviews all of your work before submitting to the lads(only if this is the case).

If by chance they do cut ya off, I would say to respect their wishes and find another less worrysome hobby, say like, bungee jumping or skydiving Laughing
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Tatsukun
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Parents are like goldfish, they can't adjust to change. 20 years ago, scambaiting wasn't done, so they think it's still a strange thing.

If you have ever had a fish, you know you need to change things like water temperature or PH slowly or they will die. You can't shock them. It's the same with parents, get them used to it over time.

Maybe start out by telling them about one of your baits, and make it kind of a family event. Talk about it around the dinner table, and show them what you are doing. Make sure you talk about how good it makes you feel to be helping the world (that matches up with that kids told their parents in the 50's).

If they make you stop, just say "ok, it's sex and drugs then I guess" Very Happy

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BigBen
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Chief2B wrote:
If by chance they do cut ya off, I would say to respect their wishes and find another less worrysome hobby, say like, bungee jumping or skydiving Laughing

I think those hobbies would be much harder to do under the age of 18. I went skydiving when I was 18 because I was under the impression that you couldn't go any younger... Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Anyway, even if your parents do pull the plug on your baiting, I can almost guarantee that the lads will still be around in a couple of years, and God willing, so will we! Cool Laughing

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Michael Osei (after seeing my passport): "WE ARE A SERIOUS ENTITY SO FOR US TO RECEIVE
SUCH A PICTURE AT THIS CRUCIAL TIME OF OUR TRANSACTION
WAS VERY SHOCKING AND MIND BOGGLING." I thought it looked cute!
Richad Smith (before voodoo curse): "Listing and listing good i will not set here and watch you insulting my person okay, and i repeat never again you ever use such words on me never in your life."
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:59 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree with Mark Time. There are many a way to oppose the scam artists save scambaiting.

Detecting and defeating scam sites, passing scam artists email/sites to abuse departments, well, writing articles and teaching people to evade the traps is as noble as scambaiting, even if less exciting.

I can't blame the parents when they are concerned - scambaiting means you oppose real criminals, most of them are quite evil (no irony) and are known to torture and/or murder their victims.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I expect my son will begin scambaiting earlier than most kids, but at the going rate he'll have a good mentor to guide him.

By the time he's old enough to operate a keyboard I'll allready have been scambaiting for five to six years. I expect his computing skills and general understanding of the world wide web to deepen over the next eleven years and perhaps be introduced to the key philosophies of scambaiting during the later stages of that time.

Of course all of his time on the internet during his formative years will be monitored closely, and carefully regulated between the hours of 4 and 6 pm after the daily ritual balancing on the prow of a fishing cannoe - as reccomended by most popular martial arts films.

When and only when he is able to accurately and consistantly split a two by four, lengthways with a finger strike, will he be allowed to begin live scambaiting. I see him as being a real force in the world of anti 419 crime in the future, but at his current age of thirteen months, he definitely shouldn't be going it alone.

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wilson888
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:05 am Reply with quoteBack to top

How about some fake bank killing first? It is safer than scambaiter and you can get little flags in your signature file once you killed one. Very Happy

P.S. All you need to do is write letters to the hoster and regulators. Of course, you can get the chance of identifying and research the site whether it is fake or not. To some, it is quite interesting and satisfying.

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Old Coaster
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:14 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Keytool and welcome to the forum.

You are not alone. My mother is very worried about my baiting activities and would be much happier if I did not do it. BTW she is 90 and I am 62! Laughing

Seriously, the problem is that when we are young, our experience is limited, but we lack the experience to know this, so we have huge amounts of self confidence. As we grow older, our level of life experience increases and we realize just how often we fuck up. This makes older people more careful.

The best example is probably car driving. Young people have more accidents than old ones and the accidents are more serious. Why? - Lack of experience makes them vulnerable and the self confidence brought about by ignorance makes them feel invulnerable, so they drive too fast.

My son had had 5 accidents by the time he was 20 and they were all the fault of others or so he said (he terrified me by driving too fast all the time). In the next 10 years he has not had one as experience taught him that assuming other drivers will do the right thing is dangerous.

This is why your parents are worried. They are likely to be even more worried if they do not understand how we make ourselves anonymous. Mugus are dangerous criminals and I have been directly involved in one case where a victim was murdered. You need to get them to read the baiting help forum as well and I agree with others above that you should encourage them to join the forum so that they can see what goes on here.

When properly done, baiting is no more dangerous than parachuting and has a beneficial effect on the world community.

Good luck.

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Marvin
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:20 am Reply with quoteBack to top

just offer them a share of what's in that trunk box .... for a small release fee off course!

Wink

It's good to see such honesty, I hope you make the right decision.
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ScamBaiterNoob
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:03 am Reply with quoteBack to top

If your parents forbid you, then you should respect that and not do it.. But if they allow it, just be careful.

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Os in IJsland
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I assume that you have a mentor and have read all the stickies to bait safely.

To make sure that you're doing everything safe, I would let your mentor or a admin or a moderator or a master baiter review the e-mails you send to the mugu's and to keep track how your baits evolve. This to pull the plug if it becomes to dangerous.

Next to that, print out a few primairy scambaiting e-mails and some press releases on 419-scams (not the most scary ones of course Wink ) and let them read that with some print from this site on safety and regulation. Preferbly, let them take a look on this site.

And tell them that you are under supervision to make sure that nothing can happen and furthermore explain the concept of scambaiting a mugu.

If all fails, perhaps you be just be an inactive member for a while. But do understand, your parents care a lot about you, so they just want to see you be safe! They are just being good parents!

Good luck, Os in IJsland Very Happy

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Red Baron
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I wonder if the lads would pursue a bait from a character claiming to be a minor (who's using his parent's credit card to pay the WU fees). I wouldn't put it beyond their sleaziness.
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