The cold reality of 419 scams - please read

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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:05 pm

The cold reality is that these guys will kill. I agree with the others who warned new baiters to be very careful about giving out any of their real identity.

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:49 pm

When I first got wind of this I immediately contacted Tweety, I had seriously hoped that with all our efforts pulled together we could save this guy from his soon to be terrible fate, after several F5's later (screen refreshes) the news slowly started to trickle down. I was physically ill, I was shocked, and I was reaffirmed and resolved.

These Lads must be stopped, these lads will be stopped.

As for the importance of the comedy bait's let me show you one useful ways that no one has really touched on about their value.

This forum at this time of posting has 5272 members. Let�s say every one of them is 100% active on these forums. What if I was to make a request to you my fellow baiters to take two people you know (Family, friends, work mates). And tell them about the dangers of 419 AFF. If you just tell them about it roughly, they will most likely forget it, but if you tell them about a funny bait or two and cap it off with the serious information they are most likely to remember. That is because it is human nature to like a good story (especially a funny one) and to have it round out with a moral. Now every one here tells two people right? That is 10544 potential victims the Lads will have no chance in getting. Even at half that amount it is still impressive.

This is just one way of getting the word out. Education is a strong tool against the lads; we must not lose sight of that. I would like to ask everyone here to take upon this quest and educate at least two people you know. Do it for a news resolution, do it to get at the lads, do it because you never know when something this vile may strike close to home.

I myself have never published bait; I leave that to the people who are better than me at getting them to do funny things. I stick to the strait bait, and hopefully soon I will be sporting those badges on my sig too.

Regards,

CrimsonSapien

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:01 am

That is true - I have used the photos of mugus with fish or bread on their heads to draw the attention of several people to 419eater.com, and from there maybe some of them will go on to bait, or just spread the word.

Funny baits might not get lads arrested, or fake banks shut down, but they get new people into baiting, which means there will be more people who might progress to getting banks shut down etc

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:08 am

A real tragedy. I thought that through BBC and other news agencies, the 419 scam would become a more low-key thing and those victims that were in these "transactions" would think twice about it. I hope this reaches out to everyone so that we won't have to encounter what this family went through.

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 1:45 am

CrimsonSapien wrote:

... Now every one here tells two people right? That is 10544 potential victims the Lads will have no chance in getting. Even at half that amount it is still impressive ...

which puts the /. "attack" on the Cole thread into an entirely new light. Shocked

I doubt any of those /.-ers will ever be a victim now. (That is if any of them ever has a job and money - and a life for that matter.)

I have told many people about this site and the lads and what happens with them. While many then say that it's all good, there is a not too small portion that either thinks it's all fake (Cole, "The Golden Warmth") or feel sorry for the lads. But when I explain that it has to do with "those crazy emails promising you millions," most say "oh yeah, I've had those and I really wondered about them." Even after only *hearing* about this site, they know what to think of the emails, that is if they hadn't already figured that out.

I doubt I would so frequently suggest visiting here to my friends if there were only straight baits.

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:25 am

What the mugus have done to this victim is as sick and barbaric as anything I have ever heard.

Clearly, this should be the example of what these scum are capable of.

If there is anything this site should accomplish beyond baiting, is some form of education. Educating the public and potential victims of the world that dirty, lying scammers will do anything possible to get what they want.

If everyone on this site were to email at least two relatives, co-workers, friends, parents or anyone they know to let them in on what 419 is, think of how many people just might learn about the dangers of answering those scam emails.

My prayers go out to the victim in this case. May justice prevail and these dirty mugu bastards get the maximum penalty given by law.

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:26 am

I don't have much really to add to this other than I wanted to add.

Someone was bound to be killed. Just like in a bank robbery or a convenience store robbery gone bad. Also remember that cops and firemen die all the time too...

As for 'funny' baiting...stupid criminals are funny. Period. They deserve the ridicule and scorn that laughing AT them can bring. And laughter is very powerful for many, myself included.

straight, funny...it don't matter. just bait and...

Please be careful people.

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:11 am

Hi guys

Firstly, yes this was a shocking and terifying experience on Tuesday, even to us police officers dealing with the case here in South Africa. These criminals are dangerous and I think in future everyone dealing with victims, even if it is only warning them, should make them aware of this danger. These lads will kill upon meeting victims.

But the actual reason for posting now is to, yet again, thank everyone who assisted last week and still do. Lord Vader, Old Coaster, tweety, Mirakl, Lew, and all the other names involved - thank you very much. We would not have come this far without your help.

This again goes to show the importance of you guys assisting Law Enforcement. The other police in Durban admitted that they would never have suspected 419 activities if they found the body. We would never have come this far without your help.

Again, thank you very much.

Elite Baiter Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 1709

If only other police would be as willing to work with us as your people Rian we would do a lot more in this line.

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:48 am

Hi RooRoo

Law Enforcement around the world is slow. Even here in SA. Since March this year I had my fair share of problems of getting 419Legal up and running, getting it official and the successes running.

Thanks to a number of baiters here at Eater who started working with me ensured the best arrests we had in SA, our arrest rate increased a 1000 times, our pro-active measures are great!

It will only be a matter of time before other LE agencies realize the successes we have and a few already did. The red-tape they have to go through is terrible, believe me! Many of the people here know what I a talking about!

Eventually by teaming up with you guys is the only way in which 419's can be addresses effectively. 2005 will see a lot of chages, I am 100% sure of that.

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:15 am

Hi Rian, it's getting late at night here in New Zealand on Christmas Eve and I'm having one last zoom through 419eater before getting my young son off to bed so "Santa" can do his thing.

I'd like to take a moment to wish you and all your team a merry Christmas with lots of relaxed beers around a brie on a nice sunny Christmas day, and all the success in the world in the New Year putting these 419 bastards behind bars. (Oops, the seasons greetings just slipped a little into profanity there didn't it Very Happy

)

I hope we all have the opportunity to contact you many times over 2005 with information that enables you to get scammers arrested. Cheers mate!

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:53 am

I felt pretty sick after reading about what happened to Georgious. My condolences to his family. Being the sister of a murder victim, I kind of know how they feel. This just makes me more determined to help get these bastards and to be very careful to protect my true identity. Anyone that considers traveling to meet any of these scammers needs to learn about what has happened to some of the victims that believed that the scam was real and were either killed or terrorized because they trusted the wrong people.

It is a sad world and occurances like this just go to show just how evil these mugus really are. If we can just save one life, our efforts have not been in vain.

Sad

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:18 am

Well, this is the first I have heard of this. To be honest, it doesn't really surprise me (we keep warning people that travelling to meet the scammers is a VERY BAD IDEA) but it is shocking.

I have to give Rian and the others all due respect for their valiant efforts to help find the man; if the mugus had been a little more reasonable, you may even have found him alive. As it is, there is absolutely no reason to go easy with them when you do catch them.

Originally, I was directed to 419eater and laughed myself silly over the funny baits, and admittedly I was attracted to baiting in equal measures: to tie up some mugu for weeks on end, and to have a few laughs.

But now the laughter is over and I am getting more serious.

Incidentally, has anyone noticed that the frequency of 419-related comic strips and cartoons has begun to increase? People are starting to notice ... slowly.

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:03 pm

A Norwegian businessmann traveled to Nigeria on 'business' about two years ago and his family reported him missing... He was later found dead in South Africa. His family never knew he was to travel to South Africa.
Strange what greed can do to people.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 7

This thread also serves as a timely reminder to those who question why we do what we do. To those who think we are racist or think these are just poor people trying to earn a crust to keep a roof over their heads then think again. These people are dangerous. This poor sods death is not an isolated incident. If the authorities (Rian and his crew are the notable exception) took this seriously we would not have to do what we do.

Next time you are questioned as to why you do it, or even question it yourself just remember the victims in this.

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:15 pm

I edited out a post in this thread. Please try to avoid anything that could be perceived as racial generalizations.

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 123

I realise I'm coming to this debate very late, but having a bit of time off work means I've got more time to sit and read through the forums properly.

I just wanted to add my twopenneth about funny baiting. I realise that it doesn't have the same direct effect as a serious bait that aims to gather information for handing over to the authorities. I also think that the entertainment value of the funny baits brings a lot of attention to this site and scambaiting in general.

It's a bit like a bar that puts on entertainment. People turn up for the entertainment, and the bar makes money by selling drinks. The drink sales are the main moneyspinner, but without the entertainment, the customers wouldn't be there to drink.

And of course, every time a new visitor to this website reads the funny baits and tells their friends about it, we remove a few more potential victims from the mix, since the antics of the funny baiters can serve to educate those who weren't previously aware of the 419 scammers.

Guest

Actually I think with so many new people joining us lately, this is a good time for this thread to appear again. And, a good time to remind people about their own personal security. Please bait safe.

If you have a website and you link to it on this board, please make sure the who is does not have your name and address. If you are not sure, you can ask for help - a mentor is probably your best bet, see this thread -

http://www.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16765

Any account you are baiting from, please do not use your own personal details. Those are my security tips for today but I am sure others have some, and of course there is stuff in the FAQ's and stickies.

Cheers,
EK

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:23 pm

EK@ I agree with you totally this is one thread that needs to be kept alive and at the fore so that none of us forget. Hats off to Rian and his team in South Africa for being the first to use the tremendous asset you guys are. I only hope that we law enforcement in the US will be able to follow their lead in getting Lads arrested for what they are doing.

Since it is no longer a secret to the Lads I feel it is time to let you guys know what has been going on in the US the past 3 months as a result of the check and Postal Money Order scams.

When the Lads started counterfeiting US Postal Money Orders they did not realize that they were actually counterfeiting US currency, because by Federal Law Postal Money Orders are legal US tender or currency issued by the Federal Government just like dollar bills. This meant that the government finally had to take steps to do something about the problem.
What they have done is have the US Customs set up offices at every major shippers hub in the US. These teams profile the packages shipped into and out of the US. EVERY SINGLE PACKAGE to or from Nigeria is hand opened and searched and any counterfeits seized. Many of you have wondered why the check trophies have been dropping off so sharply, and it is because Customs has been seizing them BY THE TON.

They are even arresting people who receive packages containing multiple checks or MOs for reshipment, because they are aiding and abetting in a counterfeiting operation. They are also arresting the people who buy the small Money Orders and send them to the counterfeiters to use as templates for the counterfeits. One Nigerian was recently arraigned in Federal Court in Dallas, Texas for this very thing.

Your trophies may be of more value than you think because we now have the capability to take documents printed on computer printers and positively identifying the printer that they were printed from just like they used to do typewriters, only a different method is used.

Many of the check scamming lads are now changing their way of shipping checks to avoid the loss to Customs. I bet most of the recent checks that baiters have received were sent via mail rather than shipped direct, or were shipped here from the UK or Canada or the Netherlands. Those leaks are already being looked at and I am sure Customs and the Postal Inspection Service will take steps to plug them also.

In other threads we have disscussed the changes in the way the Lads are acting, and what we are seeing is what Rian and his team in SA have already experienced, when the law moves in on their activities they simply adapt and change the way they operate. Let's face it, this is a business for the Lads and the US and Canada and the UK are there biggest markets for their products, although they are a truly worldwide venture. Shuting down or surpressing their biggest market is sure to bring changes in the way they do things and as in any other business it will put more pressure on the other markets where they are doing business in an effort to make up for losses in their primary market.

So start thinking outside the box again, like the baiters who started all this did to start with. Who knows what these silly MUGUs will come up with next and how dangerous or even deadly it will be. ALWAYS REMEMBER !
RIGHT NOW, IN MOST OF THE WORLD, YOU ARE ALL THAT REALLY STANDS BETWEEN THESE CRIMINALS AND VICTIMS LIKE THIS POOR GUY FROM CYPRUS.

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:30 pm

If anyone has any qualms about taking these scumbags down, this should put an end to that.

Like one of the images on 419eater says: Slap hard, slap often.

Guest

@ Browade

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:07 pm

It has made me take hiding my identity EXTREMELY seriously. When I started baiting- before I came to this community- I was unaware of how easily I could be traced.

Perhaps a SPECIFIC sticky with some tips on maintaining one's anonymity wouldn't go amiss?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:47 pm

This news is horrible but didn't shock me like some other members. It's happened before it will probably happen again. The real question is what is law enforcement doing about this scourge of rodent 419 scammers. Why aren't police in places like London or Amsterdam setting up sting operations to get some of these guys? I've been offered numerous opportunities to travel to London and Amsterdam. This seems to easy. What am I missing. Wouldn't the word get out with the 419 lads that the meeting your victim modality is not a good idea. It could be a cop.

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:26 pm

3strikes_out@ I am no expert on the laws of other countries but I do know some people in the Netherlands who say that their laws are just to lax where this is concerned (that was from a policeman) I really believe most are like I was when I came here, clueless about whatis really going on like one of the guys on this thread said I had no clue how to trace an e-mail but I am learning. There are a whole pile of reasons in the US why more is not being done but the biggest factor is simply not knowing or having the wrong idea about the problem.

I know one bank Investigator in Florida who got his bank to have all their branches in the US to send him just the checks that were recovered at the branches and that were counterfeited on their cashiers checks. He has over $300,000,000 worth of counterfeit cashiers checks on his bank in his office. How many banks do we have in the US?

All most cops see is what I saw a check or scam e-mail every once in a while and they think like I thought, you can't get to them over there.

Did you know that in 2003 the US pulled all of the DEA and Secret Service offices and Agents out of Nigeria in protest of all the scamming, and threatened to boycott Nigerian oil which brings in about $56 Billion a year to the Nigerian economy. I have talked to the people who were stationed there and basically the Nigerian government did the math on what they would loose in revenue from the US not buying their oil and what they would loose if they stopped the scams, and told us not to let the door hit us on the way out.

Guest

I have only done a few baits and none of them were very successful, but I now realize how important this really is. I had no idea that things could get that bad, I read the article in Readers Digest and I thought that was awful but this is like a slap in the face. I hate to admit that I was slacking off lately but, in reality, this could actually save a human life and that is by far the most important thing.

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