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 The cold reality of 419 scams - please read

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Tweety
Baiting Guru


Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 3095
Location: The Netherlands


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

This is a very sad and disgusting tale of the reality behind 419 scammers. Let it be a warning to all baiters about the importance of concealing one's identity. Mugu's will kill and here's a horrid tale to prove it.

Last Tuesday morning Rian asked a few baiters (among them were Vader, OC, CrimsonSapien, me and a bunch of others) to be on standby for some investigation work. He had recieved a warning that a man from Cyrpus had fallen victim to a 419 scammer in South Africa and that they had kidnapped him for Ransom. Basically it was a lot of googling and searching if e-mail adresses, phone numbers and IP adresses had been used in earlier baits, especially the straight baits which usually lead to a high ammount of information.

After 8 frantic hours of trying to track down the scammer over the internet, Rian and his team discovered the mutilated body of the victim. He had been killed around sunday, way before the scammers started demaning ransom from the victim's family. Apparently they first tortured severely him and then set him on fire.

Since this has now hit the news in South Africa we are at liberty to release this information. Suffuce to say that, to the people who saw this tale of horror play out on Tuesday, it was a truly shocking experience. We have all heard before that scammers kill victims but it is the first time any of us has seen this so close.

Let this tale be a reminder to you all that what we do here, all baiters, is good work. Let this also serve as a reminder to hide your true identity. If scammers kill people even before asking for a ransom of any kind, guess what they can do to a baiter that has cost them a lot of time and money?

Links to articles about this:
http://www.dailynews.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=500&fArticleId=2353672
http://www.dailynews.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=500&fArticleId=2354567

Note that it is not officially confirmed that the corpse is of the victim we were hoping to save, however there is little doubt about it.

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Guest







PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:36 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks Tweety. We have seen many people of late putting their friends at risk, baiting from tracable work and home addresses, publishing links to *their own* websites without checking the whois data...

But for the grace of god goes a baiter...

Watching this unfold on Tuesday has brought it home to me just how important our work is, and now has become something more, a crusade.

There will be no stone unturned nor door unopened... they will all pay, every fucking one of them.

My deepest sympathy goes to the family and friends of this victim, it is a tragedy. One I pray will never be repeated.



[edit to fix spelling error]


Last edited by Guest on Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total
TrevorAndthat
419Eater is my life


Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 275
Location: Melb, Australia


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:41 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Agreed. All newbies should read this before baiting so they know just what can happen in the worst case.

Anyone thinking about having anything mailed to them our photographing their lads at meetings should think again.

My sympathies to the victim and family of course. Let's hope the scammers are caught.

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heinousmoz
Master of Master Baiters


Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 686
Location: Northern Ireland


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I also watched in horror as this unfolded before my very eyes and I have to say I felt physically sick when I found out they found someone they suspect is the victim.

My thoughts go to the family and if anyone asks why I bait or don't do funny baits anymore this is exactly the reason. Funny baits are good in their own way but the only way to do real damage and get scum like this arrested is to do straight baits and do the behind the scenes stuff.

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Lord Vader
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Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 2272
Location: Besieging Minas Lagos


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:53 am Reply with quoteBack to top

This also shows why some of us donīt publish funny baits, but have specialized in a field that is not for producing funny reads. Great laughs can be had from baiting the stupid mugus, but there are very dangerous gangs out there that donīt give a flying f*ck about a human life. These maggots need to be wiped out.
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Tweety
Baiting Guru


Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 3095
Location: The Netherlands


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@Vader & moz: I agree, but let's not forget that the funny baiters provide an excellent cover for us straight baiters to work under. Because of all the hillarity in the funny baits we straight baiters can go unnoticed very easily by the mugu's. It all goes hand-in-hand.

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BulgingBlueVein
Elite Baiter


Joined: 07 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Watching this unfold in real time was like watching a train crash in slow motion.

When the news broke that it looked like a body was found that was probably the victim, I felt pretty sick.

Like a few others, I searched all the straight baits I have for any info that may have helped. The having a laugh at a lad is great to releive the stress once in a while, but baiting and gathering info that can hopefully save someone's life is what a lot of us who don't publish do. We don't need 100's of people licking our boots - we know what we are doing and the reason we are doing it - quietly and effectively.

Like most mods and admins, I devote a lot of time to this place so hopefully we can stop this sort of thing happening.

I hope that everyone takes heed to the warning that some of these lads are scum that don't think twice about murder if they think that there may be a penny in it for them.

Do not endanger yourself, friends or workmates by giving any usable info out.

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V_V
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 72
Location: The Shadow Gallery


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

A very sobering reminder of why we do this, and the reality behind the "fun" of Baiting. I think in a lot of cases (at least in mine) the fun (humour/mindgame/trophy) aspect brings in new baiters some of whom will continue to pursue that avenue, some of whom will follow the shadowy behind-the-scenes path of less glitzy but incredibly valuable work. The "fun" brings in the talent which can then develop into other avenues I suppose.

The people behind this need nailing, and I hope Rian and his team get all the support they need both domestically and via the baiting community.

(Seriously pissed off)

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mirakl
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Joined: 16 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I must admit I thought I was pretty hard nosed when it came to the victims of scams. When I watched this happen, I couldnt believe how upsetting I found it.

It's an important lesson to us all. I think many of us will redouble our efforts now to try and stop this ever happening again.

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mort
Master of Master Baiters


Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Posts: 623


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
It all goes hand-in-hand.


If it wasn't for the funny baits, I (and many others) would never have come here.

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Browade
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 59
Location: On the beat for 35 years


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Tweety, to you and the whole gang that worked with Rian on this a BIG THANK YOU for all your efforts, What you guys do to assist law enforcement cannot be praised enough. You all worked together in this incident as good as any crack police squad. All of you baiters out there please understand that we cops love the baiting stories and your baits are a tremendous database for our investigations; but because you can't see what these guys are doing please don't think they are no busy. They have just gotten a dose of what we cops see all the time and have come to realize just how deadly serious this can be.
By the way Tweety I have had some of the baiters contact me, because I am a cop, about their South African mugus and what they should do to help Rian. I hope you don't mind but I refered them to you because of the post you did at 419legal about the changes in the way the South African Courts want information from informants handled.
Again, GREAT JOB GUYS, and thanks for all your teams help with my investigations!

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RooRoo
Elite Baiter


Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 1709


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

That is very true Mort. I think most of us here were initially attracted by the sporting and entertainment aspect. Only later did we start to take it more seriously. And there is no reason why anyone should - there is plenty of room for the traditional comic baiters - it would be an awfully sad place without them. Too grim for us to keep up the fight for long without burning out, perhaps.

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Lord Vader
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I wasnīt saying that it isnīt important! Thatīs how I got into scambaiting and I still enjoy the good laugh, but it also shows why there is so many long time members who never seem to publish anything and when one reads something like the story above then maybe some people will understand a few of the snide remarks hurled in the direction of J.Dog and his acolytes when they proclaim themselves superior because they produce funny reading.
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Mr. Hankey
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is truly a sad, sad tale Sad

I will now double my efforts and I swear I will get these guys Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
Lew_Skannen
Baiting Guru


Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 2084
Location: Sydney, OZ


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I must admit that when I was checking for stuff on this I was really not expecting a serious outcome.
I expected the mugus to give up when their bluff was called and do a runner. These particular guys were obviously more stupid and more ruthless than I had realised.
I think it is quite likely they will be caught and it is certain that they will be replaced by more of the same.

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Maris Piper
Super Master Bitch


Joined: 04 Mar 2004
Posts: 233
Location: Not in London anymore


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

As several people have already said, it was desperately depressing watching all this unfold.

However, just remember that every victim you've warned, every victim you've stopped communicating with the scammers could also have ended up like this. Meaning you haven't just saved their money but potentially their lives, too.

Sadly, this victim slipped through the net. Let's try and make sure nobody else does.

M

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skimshandy
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 27
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Jeez, it does make you think that these people who under a disguise of a well mannered bank manager or barrister are really hardened criminals. I don't think I'll ever look at baiting the same again. I hope the people who tried to stop this haven't been badly affected and my condolences to the victims family.

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Tweety
Baiting Guru


Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 3095
Location: The Netherlands


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I for one have been affected skimshady. Bittered to say the least.... and I will double my efforts to get these guys arrested or otherwise seriously screwed over. Evil or Very Mad

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heinousmoz
Master of Master Baiters


Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 686
Location: Northern Ireland


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I never meant that funny baiting doesn't have its place, like many members here it's what got me started baiting in the first place and I apologise if my post came across that way, this whole thing still has me pretty shocked.

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Lord Vader
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@skimshandy> It did seriously affect me to learn that the man I had tried to help saving for 8 hours was already dead. It was a bad blow. But it made me more determined than ever.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This doesn't surprise me at all. They're animals. This is why we do what we do.
Lew_Skannen
Baiting Guru


Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 2084
Location: Sydney, OZ


PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It has certainly made me more determined. Up until now I have only invested time and a small amount of money. Next year I am opening the cheque book and going nuts. This is my main hobby and I am happy to invest a bit in it. New hardware new software etc.

We don't want to fight,
But by Jingo if we do,
We've got the ships,
We've got the men,
And got the money too.

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Zen
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Joined: 18 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I share the same thoughts of revulsion about what has happened and sympathy for the victim's family. In the four months I've been here, I've gradually shifted from fun baiting to the more serious side, like fake bank killing, and I'm not replacing exhausted baits with new ones.

I'm probably in a rather unique position with regard to this news. I decided recently to shut down a long-standing but boring bait with a modality I've used before - "victim" travels to South Africa, airport rendezvous arrangements get screwed up, "victim" disappears, private detective informs lad that he is the prime suspect in the victim's disappearance. This close-out is merely intended to put the fear of god into the mugu (I never tell them they've been baited), now I'm just left with a very icky feeling about how my "fun" bait was mirroring in real-time an actual and tragic event

Fun baiting isn't funny at the moment Sad
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BrotherhoodOfMan
419Eater is my life


Joined: 01 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It definately goes to show that the person who's replying to your emails is not just there for our entertainment. He's there for one purpose - to con money out of you, and this shows just how far these bastards are prepared to go to get what they want.

My condolences go out to Georgios's family. Sad

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Master Shake
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quite a sad story, and its making me re-think the steps I take to protect my anonymity.

As far as funny baits go, these are the exact baits that are providing us with *ahem* important "information" Wink that enables us to go after the more serious criminals.

Serious and Funny baits are Ying/Yang IMHO.
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