The cold reality of 419 scams - please read

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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:38 pm

Interpol is simply a "common carrier" for police issues and has little to no actual police powers. They simply act as the coordinator for criminals that cross national borders and it's up to the local police to do the actual down and dirty work.

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:08 am

Mrs. Bean wrote:-

Quote:

"Oh, I'd love to meet one of these guys! They're all idiots." and so on, which alarmed me.

I hate it when I see references to 'dumb Mugus' or 'stupid lads' or whatever in these forums. Perhaps some are but the first rule of war is never to underestimate your enemy. People in poorer countries who can speak foreign languages well enough to scam and who have a grasp of IT good enough to use the Internet are neither dumb nor stupid. Indeed many scammers are university graduates who turn to scamming because it brings in more money than honest employment.

As a case in point I have, or more likely had, a bait with a lad whom I persuaded to send me a song. I tried for more from him by introducing a character from a different e-mail address but I have a fixed IP. Neither of the accounts I was using masked the IP and he immediately picked up on the fact that both characters had the same IP. I'm not worried that he can trace me, I have all the proper precautions in place, but I have probably lost a productive bait and it did ram home the fact that these lads do check where their mails are coming from and probably have the ability to trace someone who does not follow the safe baiting guidelines. I now use proxys when baiting from non masked accounts.

As I say, never underestimate your enemy.

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:15 am

Yes. The lads as a whole aren't stupid, they're simply not as familiar with the technology as we are. There are certainly some dumb ones out there, as evidenced by the masterful comedy baits of others out there. Still, the lads are feindish and clever and will quickly turn around any technique you use on them to thier own advantage if they can. 'Tis why we should always be on the lookout for new techniques to stymie the lads.

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:29 am

I whole-heartedly agree that we should not underestimate the lads.
I will say, however, that it seems many of the "low-level" lads are in fact a tad stupid - just taught to press the "send" button on scripted e-mails, but I am confident that their bosses are far from stupid.
Many of the people controlling 419-scams are highly educated people, most of the graduated from US universities when the African oil business was still on the high.
They are well connected to organized crime in many parts of the worls, have people in a wide range of countries ready to help them, and will stop at nothing to get their promised loot.

However, I think most of the baiters here realize that calling the lads stupid isn't the same as thinking we can be careless whilst covering our tracks. It's merely a way of keeping the whole crappy thing a little away from us - giving it a little distance.
This is a dangerous hobby, to put it mildly, and even though we are all doing our best to keep these scammers at bay, there are real people being tricked out of their hard-earned money every day. People suffer, people get hurt, people loose their homes and their families, their jobs and their trust - in both themselves and others - over this EVERY DAY! Some even lose their lives, either to a scammer's hand or, more likely, their own.
The tragedy is great, and, like others that deal with horrible crime every day, we have to have a way of keeping our feelings tucked away. If that involves making the lads look stupid, embarrassing them and calling them stupid, quoting typo's and posting their pictures, then so be it.
This is not an easy job, but we try to do good.
As long as "newbies" read the FAQ's and the sticky's, it will be OK.

-M-

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:33 pm

Using www.anonymizer.com or a similar proxy is good idea! I have been surprised personally how fiendishly clever the lads can be. Although their minds can be quite one-tracked (money) their inventiveness was a little surprising at first. If you think about it, they find some way of twisting almost every new baiting modality around to use in their scams .... except for forms, can't beat forms ....

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:49 am

www.anonymizer.com is a great idea but you have to spend $29.95 per year to subscribe to it. Maybe it is just me, but I don't want to spend any money that I don't have to spend for the lads when there are plenty of free anonymous proxies out there if a person has time to look for them.
The lads are suppose to be the ones putting money out on us in phone calls, cyber cafes, etc. Very Happy

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:07 pm

Complete newbie here. I use the free version of ZoneAlarm, and it has a function to hide part of my IP address. Is that sufficient?

Haven't done any baiting yet (reading this site about four months now though), and now want to get actively involved. I want to make sure I'm 100% prepared so any help appreciated (yep, I'll get myself a mentor)

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:07 pm

Best thing to do is to send one of us an email from your baiting account and see what we can determine from your headers, TheBarSteward. When you hook up with your mentor, ask them for suggestions about which services to use, and get them to look at a test message from you. Or use a Gmail account. If there are no invites left in the thread dedicated to them, PM me. I've got umpteen of the things lying around.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 10 Apr 2005 Posts: 5

Judge not, least we be judge...but before our eyes lies the handiwork of beasts who had chosen the path of uncivilise ways, discarding the various teachings of society to live in freedom and in peace in their own happiness without hurting anyone, destroying lives in their own beastly ways to achieve financial freedom at others' expense in terms of financial, emotional and spiritual qualities thru the use of lies, deceit and emotional blackmail and even proven the capability of murdering innoncent persons.

For those who are civilise and feel for such monsters as would a normal person feel for a kitten or a puppy, let this episode be not forgotten that such beasts have shown their demonic mentality, proven by their replies in letters and the devilry when they have victims on hand as reported in the news, these brutes are not kitten or puppies but barbaric creatures that must be utterly destroyed or tamed so that they may rejoin the society of humans, by using the vilest ways possible for sweet talk are but wind in their ears should they even begin to comtemplate listening.

Was Georgios Macromallis a greedy fool? No. He is but one of many who seek only to improve the lives of his loved ones and at the same time respond to the cries of help from a seemingly genuine fellow human out of his predicament in a foreign land and be rewarded accordingly to the non - existent terms set by the monsters. The only reward for his well meaning misplaced trust of wolves in human skin was to be tortured, ransomed and burnt in the foulest manner known to mankind.

May his soul rest in peace, his death not forgotten, as mankind awakes to bravely without fear or favour, join hands to eradicate this evil once and for all, for there are still many well meaning Georgios Macromallis amongst us, some of which may be our very own loved or knowned ones who may succumb to the sweet convincing lies from these foul creatures and end up in the manner like him. My belated condolences to his family,friends and to those who had suffered in the hands of 419 scammers, reported or unreported. Amen.

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:03 am

endise_jeel, that was beautiful. Very well said Crying or Very sad

Not quite a Newb Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 47

I'd never really seen this thread before tonight.....

Drives home what I've chosen to do, really. These people make my minor crimes as a child seem like blessings.... it's horrible what people will do for money....

I, for one, am redoubled in my efforts.

Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 5:08 am

We really should make this post a 'sticky'.

I just re-read it again, and the sadeness is still as strong as when I read it for the first time.

Regardless of what each and every one of us might think of some of the victims of 419 scams, a certain state of mind is NOT a free invitation to murder. There is nothing that can excuse or justify the death of that man. He died for only one reason: because a group of organized criminals has decided that it was the time for him to go.

May he rest in peace. And may those criminals rot in the deepest pits of hell.

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 732

Agreed. Should be required reading. But I think we already have enough stickies? Maybe we could have a sticky somewhere listing similar informative or useful posts?

Master Baiter Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 188

CSI, I completely agree with your last post, especially this comment:

Quote:

I just re-read it again, and the sadeness is still as strong as when I read it for the first time.

I read the thread when it was out the first time. Not sure who bumped it (not Browade's bump, but there was a nice 3 week close-to-necro bump IIRC), but when I revisited it, it hit me just as hard -- if not harder -- than when I read it the first time.

I also second the idea of stickying this thread. Yes, I realize there is such a thing as "sticky hell", but at the same time this is one of those threads that hits you a little differently. Even though I didn't know this person, I still felt feel sick in the stomach after reading it.

Guest

It has now been just over six months since this victim lost his life. For me personally there has not been one day that I have not thought about Georgios Macromallis at least once, and I would suspect it is the same for many people on this board.

Earlier in this thread, Crimsonsapien posted this. I've updated the numbers as we have a lot more members now.

Quote:

This forum at this time of posting has 9833 (was 5272) members. Let�s say every one of them is 100% active on these forums. What if I was to make a request to you my fellow baiters to take two people you know (Family, friends, work mates). And tell them about the dangers of 419 AFF. If you just tell them about it roughly, they will most likely forget it, but if you tell them about a funny bait or two and cap it off with the serious information they are most likely to remember. That is because it is human nature to like a good story (especially a funny one) and to have it round out with a moral. Now every one here tells two people right? That is 19666 potential victims the Lads will have no chance in getting. Even at half that amount it is still impressive.

In six months a lot of things have happened, but the one thing that hasn't changed is that the lads are criminals, and they want money. If our friends and family do not know about 419, they could get it from someone we know and love.

Riposa in pace, Georgios.

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 2:51 am

100% agree.

Whenever I think about why I spend time doing this stuff, it is that story I think of.

The first quote in my sig sums up the way I feel about those fckuers.

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 2:53 am

Hey EK. You've done more than most people here to stop the mugus, and you know it.

As for me, well, now when I get a difficult victim, I send them these links for them to mull over. It seems to work as I have never gotten back any lip or smartass backtalk once they have read these links.

http://www.dailynews.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=500&fArticleId=2353672
http://www.dailynews.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=500&fArticleId=2354567
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1641875,00.html

It is sad but it had to happen to someone and at least his story have helped stop others from getting scammed or worse.

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:08 am

Personally speaking, I've not been on board for any great length of time, but I doubt whether I've felt as passionately about something like this for a long time. Strangely enough, during a conversation just last night, we spoke of the fundamental reasoning behind what we do, and that sadly in some instances of posts I've read, that seems to have been pushed to the background.

Sure, we can have enormous fun whilst we carry out our baiting, but the primary focus at any time is that we are potentially saving a victim from falling for these bastards' scams. The more we cost them in terms of time and resource, the better is our success. I'm working on a number of projects for modalities that hopefully may be useful to us all, and yes, I'm spending a lot of time (and money too) to get them perfected.

But my thought is this: if what I do prevents just one person from going through the agony that Mr Macromallis' family (and others) have suffered, then to me it's more than worth my meagre efforts.

Although it's nice to think that we make the lads do all the work, as far as I'm concerned, the end justifies the means. If that end is to put a stop to these scum causing such loss, pain and anguish, then it's a job well done irrespective of personal cost.

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 1:22 pm

Keyword= A Lot of People Working Behind The Scenes...You Better Beleive It

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:52 pm

I read this thread out of curiosity, knowing there was not a good tale to be told by the subject. It sadden's me immensly to read that so many people were trying to help but for it to be in vain.

Many condolences for the family involved, and I hope there will be closure soon.

It is sobering after reading the letter's archive.

Why this is not a sticky I don't know.

Keep up the "good" work...

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 31 May 2005 Posts: 158

Wow!!!!......First time reading this thread and I'm fairly dumbstruck.

I work in a dangerous profession, a lot of deaths per year ,but we choose to ignore it like a car crash and think "It'll never be me" .
People I have known,people I have met' have died doing what I do but this thread sends a shiver down my spine.

It hammers home.. We ARE playing with fire.

I aplaude the straight baiters

Guest

I am new to the scambaiting,

But this has left me in shock, and I fell sickened. Crying or Very sad

How can these scumbags do this? have they no thought for life?

I hope the goddamm sons of b*****s are caught and shot in the head.

I GIVE MY CONDOLENCES TO THE FAMILY

I AM SORRY TO HEAR OF YOUR LOSS REALLY SORRY.

Guest

IMHO, the original post in this thread should be put on the main page of "The Eater" as an important "Must Read". "A Sad And Shocking Real Story of 419 Fraud"

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:38 pm

^^^ Heartily concur with MS.

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:26 am

Sir Maximus wrote:

How can these scumbags do this? have they no thought for life?

In another thread, someone (I think it was Charlie Fake) said of the lads "They are not even human; they are one of nature's errors".

Indeed nature can make errors which go so far as to be absolutely unbelievable to the rest of us. The following is a true story about one of these incredible errors.

The story is about a 19 year old college kid who hired a friend of his to kill his parents and his sister. The parents owned an estate worth $3.2 million. He wanted his sister dead too so he would not have to share the inheritance. She was 16.

A few days after the parents and sister were buried, this kid goes on a spending spree. He purchases a new Mercedes along with other things.

Naturally this behavior got the authorities suspicious. Their investigation fortunately was aided by the fact that the character that did the killing was not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. His mistakes soon allowed the investigators to piece it all together. Both were tried and convicted of murder one.

Now when you looked at this kid, there was nothing you could see that would make you think there was anything wrong with him. Quite the contrary � he was clean-cut, good looking, as though he ought to be class president or something.

As the population of the world rises, we can only expect that the number of errors will rise too. Expect that there will be more lads 30 years from now, not less�

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