Such sad reading.

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 17

I hope this is in the correct forum, wasn't sure to put this in the general chat, but as it is related to scams, thought it should go here.

I have been reading on your sister site scamwarners, and seeing how many people are actually losing money to these criminals, is quite upsetting.
Just finished reading a post from a 71 year old lady, who had already lost 7000, and was not sure if she was being scammed.

How do these people actually sleep at night? And looking on here, I have seen it looks like the whole familys get involved, even the local vicars in the trophy photos! Is it normal to these people to steal of vulnerable people?

How do they actually justify their actions? And do these people ever actually get prosecuted?

I have worked with many vulnerable adults due to my line of work, and know that a large percentage of these would probably fall victim to these scams if they was not looked after. What a sad world we live in.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:44 pm

Hi warbait! Welcome to eater. It is sad the amount of scamming that is going on. I had no idea until I had reason to look for scam/419 to show my mother in law (she was getting contacted quite a bit). I read the home page of eater and all of Shiver's baits, then clicked on "forum" and I found my new home. Razz

I hope you will feel the same.

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How do they actually justify their actions? And do these people ever actually get prosecuted?

Just like any other criminal, they all have their reasons and none of them valid. There is no reason at all for one person to steal from another no matter what slight they may feel. Some people are taught from a very young age that scamming is an acceptable way of life. There are as many reasons on why they feel justified as there are people scamming. They are all horrid, horrible people.

Are they prosecuted? Some are, but unfortunately, it's not very many.

I read in a local paper the other day about scammers who would go to a person's home that needed painted, they would offer their services and ask for money upfront for supplies and initial deposit only to never have them return. The victims were mostly the elderly and it is estimated that there could be 100 victims. (Amounts scammed between $150-4,000 per victim) It was a family ring (two brother have been arrested so far) the youngest being 13 who was used as a "translator" to discuss details of the job. Some say she knew what was going on, some say no. I have no opinion on if she did or didn't. Sad, sad story but I am not surprised.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:56 pm

Hello Warbait.

It is a very upsetting thing to see. More upsetting because the victims are often blind to the truth.

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How do these people actually sleep at night? And looking on here, I have seen it looks like the whole familys get involved, even the local vicars in the trophy photos! Is it normal to these people to steal of vulnerable people?

Yes, it is. They prey on vulnerability and isolation. The less support someone has, the less ability they have to determine what is or isn't a scam, the easier they are to steal from. The natural laziness of the common lad means he likes easy targets.

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How do they actually justify their actions? And do these people ever actually get prosecuted?

They try to justify their actions in terms of retribution and remuneration for the years of slavery; or that western companies have exploited Africa and their parent societies should be punished; or that victims are stupid and deserve to be robbed. They cannot explain why they rob and exploit their own neighbours and people in developing countries. Prosecutions are rare as they usually have the money to pay off the rather ineffective police in their area. Prosecutions in the US/UK are much less easy to deflect but require a good evidence base and are generally rare.

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I have worked with many vulnerable adults due to my line of work, and know that a large percentage of these would probably fall victim to these scams if they was not looked after.

I'm glad you're there to help them, the best thing you can do is to keep them informed about these things and teach them to spot approaches by scammers. once you know the basic formats they are easy to see coming. Education is our first line of defence.

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What a sad world we live in.

let's make it happier, with every lost cheque, every reported mule account, every toasted credit card and every pyramid of sandbags. Welcome to Eater Wink

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:01 pm

Welcome, Warbait!

Aye, it is a sad world. Together with our sister site Scamwarners, we do what we can. Here at Eater we do our best to keep the scammers busy (and away from innocent potential victims), and the wonderful people at SW work to support victims.

These criminals consider scamming to be their 'job.' Seriously, like people with a legitimate 9 to 5 gig. Many of them even take weekends off.

Since you have experience working with vulnerable adults, perhaps you'd like it here or at SW. Take a look around and don't hesitate to ask questions. We're all in this fight together.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 17

I've been looking over at scamwarners, and am currently attempting my first baits to keep the scammers busy.

Luckily, as I have always worked in care homes, the reality is it is extremely unlikely they would fall victim, as there are no residents that access the internet, but I know if they was at home with internet access, it would be a completely different story.

I've registered over at scamwarners, hopefully there is some way I can get involved, even if it is just to warn people.

I have never recieved any scam emails myself, maybe I am lucky, have been online since around 2003. Have you all recieved mails randomly, or only through finding them on here?

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:08 pm

It is indeed sad but theft by deception is as old as recorded history. There always have been, and no doubt always will be, people with absolutely no sense of morals who will happily steal from anyone and everyone, without compunction and without remorse.

We often comment on the irony that many lads are genuinely very religious, but they manage to compartmentalize their thinking so that they do not see their thefts as crimes. They are masters at rationalizing their actions. They don't even see their victims as victims -- they refer to them as "clients", as if that makes their activities some sort of conventional business.

As Nailgunner says, education is our best line of defense. Reaching out to potentially vulnerable groups to explain how scams work is one of the many important ways in which we can fight back.

On a more direct level we work hard at getting their fake banks and other websites shut down, getting banks accounts from them and reporting them to bank authorities, reporting stolen credit cards, and generally wasting their time and resources.

We are outnumbered, unfortunately, but we will continue to do whatever we can to make their "work" harder all the time.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 17

They genuinely refer to victims as clients? That makes my blood boil.

Also, if they are genuinely religious, do they not remember the part about not stealing? Or as you said they see them as clients, maybe to them it is not stealing.

Maybe one day they will meet their god, and some judgement hopefully.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:25 pm

Welcome to Eater.
They pray for victims to steal from and feel they are God Given. If God didn't want me to steal from them then he wouldn't have sent them to me.

Now that you've decided to bait, Might I suggest you grab yourself a Mentor from the Cherrie Mentor program. They are the fast-track to questions you may have about baiting and how to do it safely and effectively.

ETA: Until they get to meet God, Hopefully they will meet one of us. God may forgive them but we are human and I personally do not forgive them. No matter how much they repent.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 17

I have already signed up for the mentor program, hopefully I will get one soon!

Do we have any information on scammers, such as how many victims, on average, they fleece? Would be interesting to know some figures to warn people, if they know how often it can happen.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:47 pm

I've read all sorts of estimates in various publications but the truth is that there's no way to really know. Most scams are never reported, either because the victims simply can't face the reality, or if they do they often are too ashamed to come forward -- even though there is no reason to feel shame.

Here's a recent article about just one scammer, who fortunately (and unusually) was arrested. The amount of money he stole staggers the imagination. And he's just one lad....

It also shows that despite the lads' frequent claims that they steal out of desperation, most live a life of luxury and are the envy of their less-successful fellow scammers. No one is scamming just to put bread on the table. They're out for massive, ostentatious wealth.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:51 pm

Glad you're staying around Warbait. All of our mentors are awesome. I'm sure you'll be assigned one soonest. Very Happy

419Eater is my life Joined: 26 Jan 2014 Posts: 262

Hi Warbait and welcome to Eater. Message 1, 2 and 3 is "bait safe". Use an e-mail address that is 100% nothing to do with you in real life and never give out any real life details. The lads we bait here are evil thieves.

My personal favourite is a scumbag who pretends that he runs an orphanage in Ghana. Baiters here have sent him all over West Africa in search of easy cash. I am currently negotiating to buy some of his orphans which I will ship via an evil container ship captain to Prague. See our great and ongoing mass bait at:

http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=247964

This is a welcoming community so just post or send messages - you will be helped.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:28 pm

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Luckily, as ="warbait"have always worked in care homes, the reality is it is extremely unlikely they would fall victim, as there are no residents that access the internet, but I know if they was at home with internet access, it would be a completely different story.

Fraud and theft are not the only way that the elderly can be scammed. Look at my previous post and you'll see that they scam door to door.

In my other post I told you how I found eater. My mother in law was being called almost daily to give to one charity or another. Always for some cancer victim, sad story like we read in our baits. She, of course, would never give out money over the phone, nor would she for door to door. She's also been on the "do not call list" since it's come out, so they are looking in old phone books for telephone numbers. Edited to remove non-member RL info-Capone

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:48 pm

Welcome warbait! Glad to have you onboard.

warbait wrote:

I've registered over at scamwarners, hopefully there is some way I can get involved, even if it is just to warn people.

As a baiter, one of the big ways to help at ScamWarners is to post all of the info you gather from your lads as you bait them. This way, victims that are communicating with a scammer can come across it if they run their scammer's info through google.

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:06 am

^^^ Some would say posting Scammer's details at a warning site is just as effective (Maybe more) at hurting a Lad as killing a website or a bank account.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 11

Hi, Warbait, and welcome. I'm almost as new as you are!

You've come to the right place - I haven't had the nerve to start any baits of my own (that will come shortly) but I've been reading dozens of old and new baits on this site. These people are so good it's scary. I've rolled off the couch peeing myself with laughter at what they manage to accomplish with their pets. Seriously. Way more fun than TV, and almost more fun than sex. No wait that's not true!!

My own scammer experience was with a romance scammer on a dating site, pretending to be a military man. I had no idea that this went on. But, being an old anti-war artsy-fartsy hippie feminist I wasn't as impressed with his military background as he would have liked. I kept him going for a couple of months though, before he asked me to send him a phone. Luckily I tracked down his stolen photo using my own awesome research skills (he used Sgt. Ken Preston, beloved of the romance scammers) and then the game was on - I guess that was my first bait although I did it all wrong, because I was using real-life information. I simply told him I never wanted to hear from him again, blocked him from Skype, and that was that.

You can't go wrong following the advice you're given here. This group of people is extremely competent at what they're doing. They really are experts at this. Yes, get a mentor; I shall do so as well, and then I'll be after the dating scammers with fire in my belly.

I really hate them the most - I've read baits here from other kinds of cons, but really, to me the romance scammers are the filthiest scum. They leave their victims heartbroken as well as violated by theft. It often takes a victim a long time before they can trust again, if ever. Of course this means it's even more difficult to tell a victim they're being scammed: the investment is much greater than money. They have a whole new happy life with their loving partner mapped out in front of them. Who wants to give that up?

Me, I'm a survivor. I'm back on the dating sites - mind you I am googling every photo and text-searching profiles. I also joined ScamWarners. I'm still hoping to find a partner, and I'm doing it with greater awareness and a lot more savvy.

I'm so new I don't have a sig line yet...

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:03 am

The best thing about Baiting is if you screw up you can start over and there are plenty of other Knuckleheads waiting to be tried. (Abused)

Hop in the water and give it your best shot. Not many big rules, just Bait Safe, Don't send them fake ID's, Don't involve innocent third party's (ITP's) and if you have questions,...ask.

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:14 am

I do pray for scammers to repent. But if one does, I'd never find out, until in the World to Come someone introduces us. As far as I can tell in this life, a repentant scammer simply disappears.

I've been baiting a puppy scammer who calls himself reverend. He spouted some irrelevant Bible verses at me once. I replied with relevant verses explaining why I would not send through WU/MG, but would send to a bank account. He went quiet, until a few weeks later he sent me a bank account.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

People are people, I reckon.

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:03 am

Tsnerd wrote:

People are people, I reckon.

Then there's scammers,they are arsewipes.