Gold from Ghana - scam or not?

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Mar 2014 Posts: 9

Hello everyone,

I was going through Google, trying to find a place where to post this and this website came up first. If no-one can help, maybe you could at least send me to the right place!

Here is the story. Personal friends introduced me to someone in Ghana who, after a month of negotiations, flew in with a small quantity of gold (couple kg of dust). We met and I was allowed to place it in my own lockbox and take a sample for testing after stirring it and before locking it with my own keys, sealing it with tape with signature in top and leaving it with my friend and the owner of the gold, while I went to a jeweler I arranged to test it. Sample was confirmed to be 92% gold. Now I need to come back with cash to pay for it. Gold has been wrapped up and sealed with tape that they asked me to sign on top, so it is unlikely that it can be switched. I tied the bag myself before placing it in the box too.

But the major red flag here is that the owner won't go to my jeweler or refinery. Scared of getting robbed, saying it happened before, but I can't verify that. He seemed to always be alert, but kind of relaxed after we spent some time together having lunch.

My main concern is if there is any way for all or part of this gold to be not real after all these precautions? It's a considerable sum of money that would hurt to lose, but profit is significant on such short period of time, as he is offering a good discount. Would appreciate any advice, help, any actual real life experience!

Edit: I forgot to mention that they brought export documents with them including all export tax paperwork.

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:16 am

'Gold from Ghana' immediately sets off alarms. Gold scams are a large part of the local economy.

Documents mean nothing. They are incredibly easy to fake.

It's standard procedure to give a sample of real gold to seal the deal. The rest will be gold-painted metal shavings.

If you have any doubts (and obviously you do), walk away. The odds of this being real are 100 to 1, at best. No one gives away gold below its commonly accepted value. Why would they? It's a very well-established and widespread market. Selling below current market would be stupid. Selling well below current market is an unmistakable scam. Gold dealers work on tiny margins, and large quantities. No one spends a month in negotiations. The value of gold is too volatile to waste so much time.

*** BANNED *** Joined: 26 Jul 2012 Posts: 1123

This sounds to good to be true and almost like a new variant of a wash wash/black money scam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_money_scam).

IMHO, cash on delivery, personal jeweler/refiner of your choice on delivery site to confirm out of any sample he so chooses to sample (multiple samplings suggested) that the dust is indeed gold. Also let's put it this way, he is ok doing business with you but won't go to your personal jeweler or refinery? Yeah, you're the client, you call the shots because the client is always right and what he's basically saying is he either doesn't trust you or he wants to fleece you.

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:25 am

Adding to my previous post: in my real-life business I've had several occasions where I've sold gold (and silver) scrap. I've dealt with a lot of refiners. It's a very straightforward, above-board business. They make an offer, I accept (or not, but usually I do), the deal is sealed and the day the scrap reaches them I'm paid. No nonsense, no bullshit. I only deal with people with well-established reputations. Why take any risks?

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Mar 2014 Posts: 9

Joker wrote:

This sounds to good to be true and almost like a new variant of a wash wash/black money scam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_money_scam).

IMHO, cash on delivery, personal jeweler/refiner of your choice on delivery site to confirm out of any sample he so chooses to sample (multiple samplings suggested) that the dust is indeed gold. Also let's put it this way, he is ok doing business with you but won't go to your personal jeweler or refinery? Yeah, you're the client, you call the shots because the client is always right and what he's basically saying is he either doesn't trust you or he wants to fleece you.

Sample was actually taken by me as stated above from the same bag that had the whole shipment in it after thoroughly stirring it, and then sealed elaborately and left in presence of my friend and owner of the gold. I didn't come with cash being afraid, but if I had it on me, could've taken the box right there when I picked up my friend.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Mar 2014 Posts: 9

Juan Freizwidatt wrote:

'Gold from Ghana' immediately sets off alarms. Gold scams are a large part of the local economy.

Documents mean nothing. They are incredibly easy to fake.

It's standard procedure to give a sample of real gold to seal the deal. The rest will be gold-painted metal shavings.

If you have any doubts (and obviously you do), walk away. The odds of this being real are 100 to 1, at best. No one gives away gold below its commonly accepted value. Why would they? It's a very well-established and widespread market. Selling below current market would be stupid. Selling well below current market is an unmistakable scam. Gold dealers work on tiny margins, and large quantities. No one spends a month in negotiations. The value of gold is too volatile to waste so much time.

Thank you for your input. While these are good points, lots of background is being left out and with these people it is important. We were introduced by someone I knew for years. Same tribe, trying to sell gold to develop their settlement and mining operation, since it is extremely basic. I haven't paid a single dollar upfront, they traveled here with it and that is as much trust at they would extend, besides the whole elaborate exchange situation. Going somewhere unknown - he is alone with multiple thousands of dollars worth of ore that he is responsible for in front of his people who mined it. He gets robbed - I don't even know what consequences there would be for him and I can understand that.

*** BANNED *** Joined: 26 Jul 2012 Posts: 1123

Yeah, I still wouldn't do it though like this because slight of hand/switching is a very common trick gold and wash wash scammers use.

Like I said, have the guy confirm the lot on site, COD. Safest way and as much as you may want to believe it, I wouldn't buy gold if I heard the word 'Ghana' get raised. Nothing against the country or the populace, they have some honest people but they have enough dishonest scammers to where that reputation is going to be ruined for a long time.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Mar 2014 Posts: 9

No need to requote the post above. We can see it there^^^^^- JF

I like the discussion, learning a different point of view here. But see my answer above talking about personal relationship with the connection. Forums are good for an unbiased point of view, but this aspect should be counted IMO.

*** BANNED *** Joined: 26 Jul 2012 Posts: 1123

It could be your contact has been fooled as well. I have seen it happen where scammers utilize friends and other trustworthy contacts by fleecing them into the scam first (making them a believer) and using them as a way to reach out to their friends, family, and business partners.

This is called a confidence trick.

I have also seen scammers work people for a long time if they think the payout will be big enough. The most I ever personally saw was 6 months, but like you said this is a huge sum of money.

I don't know your friend very well, do you?

That said, do what you want but the way I tend to do business is cash paid for verified goods upon delivery when I order any bulk materials from any new supplier. Due to the precious metals aspect, perhaps an easy way to do it would be smaller shipments if security is a risk and there is no chance for these Ghanaians to hire security. I wouldn't pay anyone from Ghana cash up front for an undelivered, unverified product though.

Best of luck.

ETA: Sorry had to edit some spelling.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Mar 2014 Posts: 9

No need to requote the post above. We can see it there^^^^^- JF

Thank you.

I do know the guy well, went to school together for 5 years. This is a small shipment to establish trust, he will start coming here once every other month after with little bit more. Not sure if I was unclear on the details, but box is all sealed up, so gold is technically in neutral possession now. Storage facility has it.

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:55 am

You said yourself that red flags were raised for you because he won't go to your jeweler or a refinery. If your gut instinct wasn't telling you something is wrong, you wouldn't be here. Listen to that gut instinct and walk away. No reputable gold seller would spend months on a deal -- as JF said, the gold market is too volatile for that, regardless of the country where the alleged gold is coming from.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Mar 2014 Posts: 9

No need to requote the post above. We can see it there^^^^^- JF

Thank you for your input, most of the points you bring up we're answered by me above. Mainly, it's not as much of a red flag it is a concern... But I understand that he doesn't know me and doesn't want to get robbed. We didn't spend months, but around a month, most of it went on them paying for and preparing the export process and taxes.

Edit: gold did drop $1000 in the past 2 days, but their price is set, so they are not worried. And it's good for me to maintain profits.

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:12 am

heretolearn wrote:

as he is offering a good discount. Would appreciate any advice

What sort of discount are we talking about in % terms against current market prices? If the discount puts the price below what he could get selling elsewhere then ask yourself, why would a seller be reducing his profits just to sell to you?

All of this elaborate putting it in the box etc crap is the type of thing a magician would do - only for the gold to reappear behind his ear!

And don't put too much trust in your friend - 20% of the profit for selling gold painted shavings will overrule friendship for many people.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Mar 2014 Posts: 9

No need to requote the post above. We can see it there^^^^^- JF

We are talking 10% discount on the yield. Not that much, but still worth it for me because it will happen again and not that much of a loss for seller in return for secure sale. I mentioned above seller saying he has been robbed in Europe, so he is very cautious. Product is not fully his after all, they have to pay part of profits to the village.

All of the movement with lock boxes was actually done by me, he wouldn't touch anything after taking it out of his lockbox. I stirred it, I took the sample and I tied it back up and put it into my own box to leave with them. Tape was just basically my seal on it so that if they try to remove it, it will be recognizable.

Friend is actually wealthy, whole area where he is from is full of minerals and they all make their money together sending shipments like this one out. He has been a good friend for years. From what I understood after these years, is that the wealth is not permanent because they blow through money fast on luxury and don't invest much just because of their lifestyle - work hard, party hard. And some of them sometimes come to a point where they are broke but got dust stored somewhere for the future, so they fly out and sell it.

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:47 am

Don't you find it strange that he is willing to meet a total stranger (i.e. you) with a couple of kg of gold dust, but not willing to take that gold dust to a legitimate jeweler or refinery because he might get robbed?

If I'd been him, I would have been more worried about being robbed by you.

Baiting Guru Joined: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 12237

heretolearn wrote:

maybe you could at least send me to the right place!

Sure, continue down this path then post your story at www.scamwarners.com after you get screwed out of your cash, so others can learn from your mistake. This is 100% bullshit and you are involved in a scam.

Change this post to a poll and save people the time trying to articulate to you why this is a scam and I know you will find the vast, vast majority of members here, if not all, will confirm this.

Edit: I got behind the edit 8 ball, I edited after you posted but my edit did not change the content, I just fixed a grammatical error. Now it will show 2 edits, getting behind the edit curve sucks.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 20 Mar 2014 Posts: 9

B8er wrote:

Don't you find it strange that he is willing to meet a total stranger (i.e. you) with a couple of kg of gold dust, but not willing to take that gold dust to a legitimate jeweler or refinery because he might get robbed?

If I'd been him, I would have been more worried about being robbed by you.

I was referred to him by a member of his "family" - the local community, so that was the first step in establishing some trust. We've been communicating for a couple of weeks while he was getting to know who I am and then preparing the shipment. He paid for delivery and didn't ask for anything upfront and that was his trust deposit. We met at a public place and he showed me the dust in my car only after we had lunch and got to know each other.

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:03 am

And you who he now trusts will be taking him to a legitimate refinery/jeweler - so he's not going to get robbed. There is more risk in meeting a stranger (even if there is an introduction) than in going to a legitimate business. He won't go to a refinery because he knows that if he does then his scam will be found out.

If he was robbed in Europe then I assume that he reported the robbery - so he'll be able to provide you with the details of who he reported it to, so that you can verify that.

To be honest, you're not going to get the answer you want to hear here or over at scamwarners - no one is going to have real life experience of the strange scenario you have described and only you know whether the 10% profit you might make is worth the risk of losing the amount you pay by being scammed.

Baiting Guru Joined: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 12237

B8er wrote:

strange scenario you have described

I'm waiting for the cool part where the aliens get involved.

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:31 am

Welcome heretolearn.

This is shouting Scam to me, for all the reasons that you have already been given.

I have a feeling that if you do go through with it, then you will regret it.

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:57 am

heretolearn wrote:

I was referred to him by a member of his "family" - the local community, so that was the first step in establishing some trust. We've been communicating for a couple of weeks while he was getting to know who I am and then preparing the shipment. He paid for delivery and didn't ask for anything upfront and that was his trust deposit. We met at a public place and he showed me the dust in my car only after we had lunch and got to know each other.

There are more things suspect with what you've said here than with anything you've said thus far. The 'family' member could just be another scammer. It's very common to have more then one person in on a scam, especially a very profitable one. The fact that he paid for delivery may have been his 'trust deposit' as you say but it was more likely a display to reel you in and make you believe the scam is legit. So far you've not been asked to pay for anything but the gold right? So surely everything must be legit right?! That's not true...Try thinking outside the box for a minute. Is it possible that this initial shipment actually is real gold? Just a small amount to establish the relationship. They've paid for the delivery. They've done everything they can to make it look legit. All to establish a relationship with you. You purchase the gold. They make a profit, you make a profit, everyone's happy. You're so happy that you ask for a bigger shipment in a couple of weeks and get a big crate full of metal shavings or bars painted gold and that's when the scam happens. There's a reason this guy wouldn't go to your jeweler. He knows he will be scamming you. He doesn't want to show his face to anyone but you and your friend. Especially to someone in a place that has cameras. These people aren't stupid. Bottom line is that you know something isn't right. Your gut instinct is telling you that or you wouldn't be here. We see this type of thing every day. We see people scammed by it every day. We're not trying to ruin a good thing for you but genuinely offer you some advice and help you to not make a big mistake. The best thing to remember is that if something seems too good to be true it always is! If they could get more money for the gold elsewhere, and they easily could, why would they choose you to sell it to. It just makes no sense.

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:42 am

Quote:

It's a considerable sum of money that would hurt to lose, but profit is significant on such short period of time, as he is offering a good discount.

Gold at a discount. Question

What would be the profit margin if you lost your money to a scam?

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:35 am

When reading your initial description of the sample testing procedure I had very much the same feeling B8er mentioned above - it sounds exactly like the setup for a magic trick. If you were subtly manipulated into choosing the part of the sample that actually contained gold when you thought it was fully random ("forcing" in sleight-of-hand terminology), all the rest is just complicated window dressing.

The process sounds highly unorthodox as mentioned above - and one very important aspect is that scammers of this sort will have answers to everything; this includes building trust with the victim and sowing suggestions of mistrust about anyone not involved in the deal (the previous "robbery" being a good example of this). My own opinion, like others who posted here is that it's not a real deal and should be avoided.

anyway I wish you the best of luck as you make the difficult choice about whether to go ahead with it or not.

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:49 am

I'm pretty much with everyone else here. "Gold from Ghana" would immediately turn me away.

But if you do go ahead with it, always "Cash on Verification". Not just when they deliver it, get every delivery verified first and not through someone they suggest to you.
And if you get a gut feeling that something isn't right, that red flags are waving somewhere, back away. Especially when dealing in Gold, you cannot be too careful.

EDIT=
Also, don't for a moment believe that just because their initial bag came back 92% legit, that all their future deliveries will be just as.
As Dr Mike's and TM's Rame Head Pilgrimage points out, Gold lad's (and yes, we deal with a shockingly large number of them) are frequently able to visit Europe with a bag of shiny dust. Once they win your trust, they sell you this: http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2013542

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:47 am

I have Baited Gold Lads extensively. At some point during this 'deal', you will likely be robbed or cheated. The alternative is that this is black market Gold, with either counterfeit or nil documentation.

There remains little more for us to say, other than to suggest that you give it up immediately and block all further contact with these Scammers.

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