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 Scambaiting on TV (the most dangerous bait yet)

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NotReallyKarlDavies
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I was recently contacted by a British television company (who asked not to be named).
This company, who we'll call Channel X, heard about scambaiting and sent out an email to everyone who worked for them asking if anyone knew anything about it.
I said that I'd actually been doing it for about a month, and joined a forum community of people who do likewise.

Soon, I was in contact with a production company and a number of others. It was all very overwhelming - especially considering my only televised appearance was 4 lines in 2003 on a certain TV sitcom.

A group of us then sat down in front of the computer, and set up a Gmail account. I won't tell you the name, but it was a flawless account. Everything was set up as though this person actually existed.

We managed to find a scammer pretty quick. We've been chatting to him since December.

Eventually, a meeting was set up with this guy - in Italy.

Because of my qualifications in acting, I am now training to fly out to Italy and meet the scammer.

As I said, it's a very well regarded British TV channel, not a dodgy YouTube channel or something!

I've managed to fly out to the real Italian airport and plan my every move. We'll be controlling the scammer completely and in theory nothing could go wrong.

I'll land in the airport (again, not allowed to be named!) and get in a taxi with a driver who is 'in-on-it' (which makes it sound like a Just For Laughs prank, which it certainly isn't!). He will drive us to a hotel. The entire hotel staff know what is happening, and my hotel room has already been kitted out with hidden cameras. There are also secret entrances and exits, which lead to production rooms. Should things get too much, security teams can come into the room through a number of entrances (or I can get out!).

It is very dangerous, but I like to consider myself smart enough not to put myself in a position were I believed I was in too much danger.

Should things go wrong, there will always be a way out and nothing (Repeat, nothing!) will happen in situations the crew does not control.

But, to cut to the chase, I'm bloody nervous!

So, the team and I would like to know if you could meet a scammer in the flesh, what would you ask him? What would you want to know?

My flight leaves on March 28th.
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TerranceBoyce
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Meets of various sorts have been performed before but they're not recommended simply because you aren't in control, and even moreso in your situation as you're having to perform in a manner that will satisfy the needs of a TV show.

It would be sensible to assume that they'll have 'outriders' looking out for any form of set up. What precautions have you taken in case they're armed, and how would you explain it all to the police ?
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Fowan Nyne
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

↑↑↑ Assuming that the lad will get off his arse for the meet! Rolling Eyes

Edit: corrected : roll:

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4X1X9
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

To echo what has been said above I think you will find it hard to dictate to a scammer exactly where and when you will meet. They don't usually negotiate these type of things, there aim is to disorientate you not the other way round. No doubt he will have 'taxi' of his own he will want to get you in to travel to where he has his scam set up and he is in control. It is extremely unlikely he will get in your taxi and let you call the shots.

It has been done, Shiver once got a lad to fly to Glasgow for a fictitious meet but it requires a lot of work. If you've only been in contact with this guy since December it's highly unlikely he will be on the hook enough for you to get him where you want him.

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The Monsignor
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I disagree with much of the sceptical opinion. There have been numerous Safaris conducted where Lads have been baited for as little as a few weeks, and then Safari'id to specific destinations on specific dates and times.

It is certainly achievable.

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TerranceBoyce
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The problem is - what is the intent - a documentary exposee or an amusing bait ? I'm not sure you can do both at once and the Lad isn't a co-operative participant. He could actually end up baiting you if he understands that the success of the TV programme depends on his co-operation.

You have the problem too that everything he says will be a lie which won't make riveting TV unless you reveal to him who you are and what you're doing. The cogs will whir very quickly and the Lad will see $ signs.

Effectively you're making the first documented safari performed by a baiter for a Lad. Baiters have had Lads explain scamming over the phone on live radio before or in recorded interviews.

You're investing cash in a bait and most baiters would never do such a thing, not unless there's high hilarity guaranteed.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Short time safaris have been done. IIRC, one was done within a week of posting just a while back. That is not new.

What really makes me scratch my head here is why you are doing this? Is channel X available in ladland? Is this for entertainment or education?

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Dorothy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Meetings on video aren't new. They have actually been done before, both by rogue individuals and media. Usually the intent is supposed to be some kind of expose.

Dateline did it years ago here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17713446/ns/dateline_nbc-to_catch_a_con_man/#.UOnR4XfP6Dq

Is the lad going to fly to Italy for a meeting with someone after a few weeks? Of course not.

But if he is actually local, or (more likely) he has an accomplice in that area, someone just might show up.

Some scammer types are much more likely than others to meet. (I'm not talking about the ones who want to lure their victims to a remote location so they can rob and/or kidnap them. They are an entirely different class, and much less common, thankfully)

For example, black money (wash-wash) scammers are essentially dependent on a face-to-face meeting to succeed. If they can't show off their magic chemicals, they won't be able to get the victim's money. These scammers are generally more than willing to set up a meet in a hotel room or other quiet place so they can "demonstrate." They are typically much more likely to use a pushy-salesperson approach than anything threatening or violent. Scammers running formats that are more dependent on victim greed are also more likely to meet--often the supposed deal is just shady enough (and possibly illegal) that the victim won't want to report the crime to the police because of his or her own role, so the scammer feels more secure.

On the other hand, a typical romance scammer is dead in the water if he sets up a meeting, because he is undoubtedly using stolen photos. He will have a last-minute excuse for not meeting. Dying widows who have used stock hospital photos have the same problem. It is possible in some cases that they will arrange a meeting with a courier, barrister, etc--but that is not unlikely to happen in such a short time.

Honestly, with the arrangements made, it's not a particularly dangerous venture. As others have said, the scammer may smell a rat and bolt, so it could be a waste of time, but the actual safety risks are low.

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agnomen
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This has been done before there is a link to a Dutch TV programme where a scammer was set-up somewhere on the site. I’ve done a few searches but can’t locate it at the moment.

Edit: Belgian TV but in Dutch http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1841154

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Last edited by agnomen on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dr Mike
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Lad is not out to rob you but to scam you. So therefore it is not likely that he is armed. To get a lad meet on his home turf is rather simple in most cases. As the lad is not traveling anywhere he is willing to meet you in Rome for example. As i said this is rather easy and i had a lad run around in Switzerland yesterday meeting with...well no one it turned out. But this lad was in Switzerland to begin with. Sure, the oga was Nigerian and he claimed that the man i was supposed to meet had traveled from Nigeria to meet me. This was a lie and the lad was and is in Switzerland all along.

Lads in Africa often outsource jobs to European cities to earn a buck from victims reluctant to send money. Or as Spot said, for the wash wash modality. But that often come in after a few payments already has been done. Some cities are riddled with scammers that have connections to lads in Africa, examples of this is Amsterdam, Madrid and London.

London is the most common in my experience which is interesting for you in the UK. Why not grab a few lads and set up for a meeting in London instead. This should be both cheaper and more interesting for British viewers. If they air this (which i assume is their goal) the British viewers should be able, providing that the program is aired in the UK, to relate more to a scam set in Britain compared to one in Rome. And it would be easier for the channel to do this in London compared to Italy.

You needent look very far for a scammer in Africa with connections enough to set up with a meeting in London. Many are capable and willing to do this.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Dateline NBC did the same thing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17697615/

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NotReallyKarlDavies
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It's a massive relief to hear you all think it's a safe venture. That was my biggest concern.

I don't know what exactly is going on with the baiting side, a group of guys took other ages ago and I assume they have a number of the run, and then will decide on the most likely to participate when the time comes.

I'm not entirely sure, to be honest. Apparently bait meets aren't uncommon. We can only hope for the best, but obviously I will not participate if things go haywire ("no sir, that's ok, get in this taxi"!!!) I'll be off like a rocket.

So I'll halt discussion here, as it is no longer allowed on 419E. All the best, and thanks for your excellent advice which I have passed on to the directors!
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JMRazor
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Your description of the "sting" seems odd in as much that you don't know what is going on yet have a date-certain for your plane trip. I'm trying to imagine what kind of scam could involve a meeting three months out. I'd want more certainty surrounding the bait and definitely would want to at least monitor the gmail account for activity.

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NotReallyKarlDavies
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, I've tried my best to keep up to date with it all, but there are lots of scambaits underway!! (more than I can handle).

I am solely the guy he's going to talk to, and I'll be briefed as to what it's all about and so on closer to the time.
For now all I need to know is when I'm going!

Basically, to cut a long story short, I'm not the one doing the emailing. I had some involvement at the start, but it all got a bit much for my brain to handle, so I've left it to the people who know what they're doing.
Whether or not I'll be standing alone in an airport, waiting for a never arriving scammer, or the whole ordeal will be a huge success, isn't in my hands.

I am solely the fella who was stupid enough to put his hand up when the big producers said we need a volunteer! (although there is a nice wad of cash involved, plus a free holiday to Italy).

I like to think the folks at Channel X know what they're doing.
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JMRazor
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, since I don't know the mysterious Channel X, you would know better than I. My advice is to not let yourself get trampled for the sake of a good story. Wink

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Are you delivering the cash to Italy on behalf of the Lannisters or the Starks?

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NotReallyKarlDavies
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think this post is relevant once again. I am flying out in four days time. Everything is prepared and I will be posting some pictures!

Once all is filmed and the scammer has done a runner, I'll tell you the name of the channel and date of broadcast.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I wish you the best of luck! Stay safe!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

BTW. What is the goal of this project? Is it just to film the whole thing or do you plan to get the guy arrested?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I worked on a bait a few years back where the BBC lured a scammer I was baiting to meet one of their reporters. The lad was in Malta and the reporter and the camera crew traveled to meet him. The lad thought he was going to collect a bag of valuable jewelry. They met on the street and the instant the lad saw the cameras he turned and ran. It was a VERY short interview!

Best of luck. Be safe.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

ok ... opinions being what they are .. please take mine with a grain of salt.

Quote:
Basically, to cut a long story short, I'm not the one doing the emailing. I had some involvement at the start, but it all got a bit much for my brain to handle, so I've left it to the people who know what they're doing


That says enough to me. You don't know the history of the bait. You don't know this guys personality. You're going in blind. And *that* imho, isn't too wise. They've baited you into this? Because of acting experience? Has a psychologst studied the conversation to make a determination on this guys personality profile? If the bait was too much at first - I can only imagine how you're going to feel dumped into the middle.

call me foolish, but I can think of a million things that can go wrong. Starting with "get into the car' ... no cars. not yours - not his. no cars. things go wrong in a closed in space without at least 2 points of egress that don't involve moving at the time. Hell, things go wrong *with* 2 points of egress that don't involve moving. no cars, no trains, no cabs, no busses. public space - plenty of people around you. And back-up. Insist upon it - for your own safety. Since you didn't specify in your posts ...

Have they dox'd the guy? Have you been given the DOXX ? Do you know who he *really* is - or just a facebook image of who they *think he might be* ?

Are you going to have police protection in this? Or just a camera guy. Nothing against camera guys - but most every one I've ever worked with is good behind the lense, but not the sharpest knife in the drawer when they don't have a cam in their face. (most - not all) ...

How many of laddy's friends are going with him? Perhaps you'll only *see* laddy - doesn't mean he doesn't have a dozen friends already covering those points of egress. Closed room? not on your life.

Hit YouTube - there are plenty of examples of scammers caught on cam.

I think I already know what channel - they've advertised for other 'meet up' type things elsewhere.... from following the bait process behind the screen to meeting up.

Granted, the 'violent' type seem scarce - but it's human nature to fight when cornered - and what you're being drawn into is cornering a person that you know nothing about. Fight or flight - and if you block off all routes of flight - you've left him nothing but fight. I hope your station has taken that into consideration.

IMHO, etc etc - all caveats apply - YMMV.

(edited to fix spelling .. and to add .. Who knows - it might be good for a BAFTA. Or a Darwin.)

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