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 *** Reckless ASEMs ***

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jose_cuervo
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Joined: 01 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Recently, there has been a very large number of baiters "accidentally" baiting other baiters. This increase is probably due to inexperienced baiters using an address extractor on their accounts to get lists for ASEMs. The problem is that this will extract ALL addresses in the account. In an effort to mass email large numbers of lads, certain baiters have managed to copy CC lists from their catcher accounts and then proceeded to bomb ASEMs and insult scripts.

As a result, ASEMs sent out by baiters are hitting other baiter email accounts as well as ITPs (Innocent Third Parties) and current/previous victims. In addition to causing confusion and wasting everyone's time, it showcases the baiter responsible's ignorance and inexperience. This disregard for others is entirely unacceptable and needs to stop immediately.

There has always been a strict KEEP OFF rule regarding ITPs here at 419Eater, and ASEMs are no exception to this rule. To an ITP, a baiter that carelessly carpet bombs insults and scripts is no better than a lad. By indiscriminately ASEMing ITPs, the baiter has the same effect as a lad, and is filling someone's inbox with ridiculous crap. If these sort of careless baiting tactics continue, it is only a matter of time before a baiter causes some serious damage.

As with everything listed in the forum rules under "What is absolutely not allowed here", this sort of reckless attitude toward baiting could get Eater shut down. If an ITP falls victim to a baiter's antics, for whatever reason, getting BANNED would be the least of such a baiter's worries.

It is difficult enough explaining what we do and why we do it to the general public. Having someone find their way to our site by Googling an insult or ridiculous baiter script is certainly not going to advance our cause and could, in fact, do irreparable damage.

This behavior happened very rarely in the past and there is no logical reason for it to be happening now. If anyone here is uncertain of how to send an ASEM:

1) Don't send ASEMs
2) Only use lists of CONFIRMED lads from 419baiter, joewein or others.
3) Use the "Search" function on the forums
4) Start a new thread in Help Hints Tips
5) Contact your mentor
6) Contact a moderator

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internationalchrysis
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

This makes sense, that's partly why I don't use ASEMS. I was thinking though, wouldn't this be better as a sticky?

Just my two cents (rounded up to five)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Good advice for a new guy. Thanks!

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DoraTheExplorer
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Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you jose. This has become such a huge issue recently and somehow seems to coordinate with the introduction the the gmail extractor program, to a certain degree. And I admit it (the extracting program) is confusing at first and can see how easy it is to hit other baiters and ITPs that have been cc'd by a lad's initial format (instead of bcc'd). But like you said, that is no excuse. And I will make a better effort if I ever ASEM again. (Unlikely)

I have seen several baiters, who's ASEMs have hit other baiters, make comments like 'Well, it won't kill another baiter to get my ASEM.' and such. But it does snowball -- and hitting ITPs was never even mentioned at the time.


Not only are ASEMs tricking in sending - no matter what method you use to harvest the email addies - but there are inherent problems in making sure the person that replies is in fact a lad and not another baiter or ITP. And if caution isn't taken in verifying that the response email addy is a verified lad email addy, you can't be sure they are a lad.


I too, hope this becomes a sticky even though we have a lot of them. It is really important stuff.

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Badgerbait
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:38 am Reply with quoteBack to top

ALCON, +1 never use 'em. No need. Lads find me...all the time.

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piecrust
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:56 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Zero usage from me, IMHO they should be licensed strictley and only for those with sufficient nowse not to misuse them. Rolling Eyes

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SUUNTO LOVER
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:03 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Good Advice to everyone.
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extremeb
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree with what's been stated above. An ASEM should be used as a baiting tool to 1. verify a lad is a lad 2. To further your bait story line. 3. Give proof to a victim that indeed they are dealing with a scammer. I use them quite sparingly, and when I do, it is a one of, not a mass mailing bombing attack. IMO an ASEM should be used surgically, not recklessly.

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scambuster3
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:22 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Also baiters should remove their catcher account when posting email in surplus
or anywhere else

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Lachesis
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:54 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^ Would it be acceptable for me to post a hand-checked ASEM list, with only reply-to/"reply to me at ________" addresses + relevant headers?

Fair enough, I probably have hit several baiters, so will probably scrap using gmail extracts.

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bravo95
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I do see how this is an issue and should be fixed. Involving ITP in any shape or form is completely unacceptable.

I don't think it's fair to say never mass ASEM nor do I think that in itself is the issue. The issue is how the email addresses are harvested. Those two points shouldn't be confused.

I have sent out TONS of ASEM mainly using the list on 419baiter. I was even curious about how those emails are harvested so I emailed the admin to find out. He painstakingly goes through catcher accounts and copy and paste the reply to addresses. This is really the only way to guarantee you are emailing lads.

I tried gmail extract too and emailed a few baiters so I stoped using it. The only somewhat safe way I found to use the tool is to move all your emails you want to harvest addresses from to a new folder then go through each email and delete every email with multiple recipients. Then when you do the extract just pull addresses from that folder. Of course it's easy to miss one or two emails you should have deleted. So I stoped even doing it that way.

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Morgain Le Fay
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:43 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The extractor sounded like too much work.

I take a more surgical approach in collecting addys. I keep a WORD doc open in which I created a table with 2 columns. The first column has the date that I sent out the email. The second column has the email addresses which I have taken surgically from letters from catcher accounts and emails I have received from the reply to area. I paste those individual addresses in the second column separated with a comma. This way I also have a record of when the emails were sent to lads.

If I get a bounced email, I search for it on my WORD doc and delete it.

Early on 2 Eater members received one of my letters and their addys were quickly deleted.

Any addresses I delete are in another WORD doc so I have a record for my info.

It make sound like a lot of work, but this is the easiest system for me over which I have more control.

I try to only send a limited amount of ASEMs for a current project -- about 50 per day.

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bravo95
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well if you use gmail extract carelesly it is almost zero work and that is what the problem we are having is. Nothing is easier than copy and pasting the huge list on 419baiter but I think there was a long time span when the addresses were not updated and that is what started the gmail extract thing.

Like I admitted I used it at first but see the flaws in it now and think it should not be used at all.

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Last edited by bravo95 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ezio
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I haven-t used extractors ever, I only take addresses from surplus, the Insult Mass Bait, and the 419Baiter list.
Still, in spite of that about 3 times I ended up mailing baiters by mistake.
I don't know if it was just human error or what, because in at least one case the address that I was told had received a message of mine was NOT one that I recognized as having written to.
The only ASEM's that I do are from my parallel lad modality: usually insults, accusations, and threats but sometimes other things.

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Fowan Nyne
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for bringing that up Jose.
I'm starting to get a little pissed off with them coming into my catcher.

I would prefer to bait a lad any day than send out insults in the hope of getting a sig line.

Baiting wastes their time for longer and it's much more fun. Smile

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Fryer
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Wow, I wasn't even aware of that capability! Confused

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PirateEyes
Not quite a Newb


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm glad this issue is being brought up. Two of my accounts were getting hit by ASEMs on a near weekly basis, and it was getting annoying. Especially when one baiter told me to quit imitating lads as I was confusing everyone! (for the record, I don't imitate lads. I don't initialize contact at all, I already get everything from spam folders and the such)

I'm sure ASEMs work for certain situations, but a lot of people were using it wrong and wasting everyone's time, and driving everyone nuts!
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Morgain Le Fay
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Since we are doing a movie opportunity for location scouts, we have included the CDXIX as part of our "movie" letterhead. So it a baiter goes get it, hopefully, they will respond to me and I can delete their email addy.

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PirateEyes
Not quite a Newb


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:34 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Morgain Le Fay wrote:
Since we are doing a movie opportunity for location scouts, we have included the CDXIX as part of our "movie" letterhead. So it a baiter goes get it, hopefully, they will respond to me and I can delete their email addy.


That doesn't always work. I've responded with CDXIX to ASEMs before, and had them continue before I finally just said 419 to them, and then got chewed out for leading them on. Apparently it isn't quite a well known code yet.
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windypops
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The list on 419Baiter seems to be picking up more and more baiter addies by mistake. Maybe it's to do with all the 'oga' we seem to have here baiting lads. Laughing

Also, reporting and closing of lad addies has been on the up for the last few years. I found that most of the addies from there bounce, so your lucky if 10% get through and you get a reply from about 5% of those. (Made up stats, but you get the idea)

Even using Email extractor on your catcher inbox comes up short because a lot of the original sender addies get closed within hours due to said reporting, or the lad exceeding the limit, so you need to read the email to be sure of getting a working reply address included in the body text.

The halcyon days of upsetting two or three hundred lads a day are long gone. It used to be so simple. Sad

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Jesse_James
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:15 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I love reading a good insult bait, although I don't do them myself. It would be a shame, in my eyes, to see the end of the ASEM. That said I understand that we have to be careful that we don't bait baiters and ITP.

To that end I am willing to offer those baiters who want to to ASEM lads the following -

I will manually trawl my catcher and put together a list of 'reply to' addresses from mail that is clearly 419 that has arrived in the preceding 24 hours or so.

Any baiter who wants me to do this should PM me and ask for it. This will normally result in around 50 email addresses. They will all be addresses that have come from obvious scam mail. Any mail that isn't clearly 419 will be ignored and the address won't make the final list.

I hope this is acceptable to baiters and Mods alike. If anyone has any issues at all with this then feel free to drop me a PM.

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jose_cuervo
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This thread is not about ending ASEMs, it's about ending the irresponsible sending of ASEMs.

Plain and simple, check your lists.

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Jesse_James
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sorry, I wasn't very clear in my last post.

I meant that I'd hate to see people not using ASEM because of the current problems. I was simply offering a potential solution to anyone who was unsure of other sources.

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Zapmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

If I wanted to find extra lads, I don't need to go anywhere but the spam-catcher in my Yahoo account. I collect two or three a day there.

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psychicbait
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

bravo wrote:
I have sent out TONS of ASEM mainly using the list on 419baiter. I was even curious about how those emails are harvested so I emailed the admin to find out. He painstakingly goes through catcher accounts and copy and paste the reply to addresses. This is really the only way to guarantee you are emailing lads.


My bolding. I use this method myself.
Yes, it takes time to strip the relevant addies.
Yes, it takes effort to confirm it's a lad and not spam.
But it's the only way not to involve ITPs.
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