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Mortal
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Joined: 02 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hello, since I've been reading about all those romance scam fuckers, I think they have way too much free time on their hands. So I've joined 4ppl.com and I've recieved several messages. There are some people with location in africa, and I'm pretty sure they are scammers, but of course, I can't bait somebody just because of their location. I've tried googling their messages, tineye their pictures, but I found nothing relevant or solid piece of evidence.

Do you think classic baiting method ASEMing "I'm interested in your offer" to their email would be efficient here?

Thanks,
Mortal

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Branwen
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is something I once wrote to a mentee. It refers to a female baiting character looking to bait a being-male lad. You can also turn around the genders to apply to a male baiting character looking to bait a being-female lad.

The first thing you need to do is check your character's dating profile. It must NOT attract genuine men!

- Is there a photograph on your character's profile? If there is, and that woman is in any way 'attractive', then take it down immediately! You want either a photograph of a not-at-all attractive woman, or, better still, either an uninteresting cartoon or a nature photo, or no photograph at all.

- What does your character have to say about herself? Does she sound normal or interesting? If so, then change her self-description. She needs to describe herself in a very boring way: maybe her interests are making toast and doing laundry? Or maybe she loves talking about mending clothes and cleaning the bathroom?

- What sort of man is she looking for? If she is describing an ordinary or nice man, again, change it. She needs to be looking for a man who likes spending time with her aunts and uncles, a man who enjoys discussing piltogoger (no, I don't know what it is either: I just invented it), a man who is willing to do all those DIY jobs she has lined up for him - that sort of thing, that would make a real man shudder and move on.

- What about all that other information? If you have the option to leave everything else blank (education, occupation, religion, income, height, weight, colour of hair and eyes) then do so. Lads don't need any detail, only a genuine date-seeker would be interested in that.

Now, when you receive a PM from another member and think this might be a Lad, go straight away and look at his dating profile. You need to look for the following clues:

1. Where is he from? If he says that he is from a West African country, that is a good sign that he may be a scammer. If he says he is from an English-speaking country (UK, USA, Canada, Australia) have a look at his grammar and spelling. Is it usual for someone of that country? If not, then look for further clues. If he claims to be from any other country: keep an open mind at this point.

2. What age partner is he looking for? It is usual to look for a date within a few years of your own age. And it is not usual to look for someone of 50+ if you yourself are a much younger man! If he is looking for a huge age range (18-75 years), that is another clue that he might be a scammer. If he is aged under 35, and looking for a woman who is getting past child-bearing age (ie 45 years upwards), that is a little suspicious.

3. What is his occupation? Real people have a huge variety of occupations. Being a 'businessman' or an 'engineer' does not mean that somebody is a scammer! But it could be something else to add to the list of 'clues'.

4. What is his income? Is it within the range you would expect for someone of his claimed educational background, occupation, and country? Again, this proves nothing: but it is something else to bear in mind.

5. His religion? If he says he is Buddhist or Hindu or Jewish, or of any minor religion, he is not a 'typical Lad' (who tends to be Christian or Muslim). So, unless there is HUGE evidence/clues otherwise, assume that he is not a scammer.

6. And finally: read his descriptions. A real person will usually name their interests and hobbies, say a short piece about their personality (easy-going, good sense of humour), and the personality etc of the sort of woman they are looking for (seeks bubbly, intelligent, feminine lady who enjoys travel and discussing current events). A lack of detail, or, alternatively, far too much written about oneself and how romantic and giving they are, and how much they enjoy long walks and looking at sunsets ... it is suspicious. Real people know that life, and therefore relationships, needs to also be quite practical, and are looking for long-term partnership, not just a load of hand-holding on the beach. Again: it proves nothing, but it can be another clue.

Review everything. Does it all add up to lots of clues that this might be a scammer? Or could this be a genuine date-seeker?

Look at his photograph too, if he has included one. Is there any way that a man like this, looking like this, would be interested in your dull dreary old character?

If you have any doubt: do not reply to this man.

If you have just a little uncertainty: contact an experienced Love Lad Baiter and ask them to take a look at the profile and give you their opinion. But: bear in mind that it is still only an opinion. You will still need to establish it for sure.

So: you think you have found one that seems like a scammer? Then answer his PM. And then come offline. Don't get into chat.

Answer his PM with just a thanks for your message note - or, if he has already given you his email address, then email him instead. Just a note, giving a few bland facts about your character, eg, 'I'm 44 years old, divorced, live in the west of my country, and would like to get to know you more.'

When he writes back, tell him something uninteresting about what happened in your character's life today, eg: 'Thank you for your letter, it has been cold here today. I bought some new gloves this afternoon. Then I visited my Gran and we had a cup of coffee.'

As time goes on, you can expand upon that: BUT keep it to rather boring 'penpal' type letters until you are CERTAIN he is a scammer.

Check his IP address. Scammers can be anywhere, and they can also use proxies, AND geo-location-spoofers. So this is does not always prove anything. But if you have any doubt at any time, that he could be a genuine man who wants a genuine relationship, DROP him immediately. Until you have much experience, I would recommend ONLY writing to men whose IP addresses very definitely place them in West Africa.

If a probable-Lad is on Gmail, then you need to steadily become more and more boring, and write less and less frequently. Talk about nothing personal, just about the weather and/or invented dull TV programmes. If it is a Lad, then he is after your character's money, not her personality, so he'll write back whatever. A real person, however, should be bored away.

Should be! There are still some more checks to do!

This is what you would expect from a non-scammer:

1. He is likely to tell you about his work, including how long he has been working for that company, and what his daily work routine is, what hours he works, whether he works weekends, what he thinks of the job.

2. He is likely to mention his friends, by name, and tell you what they do together: meet at each other's homes, go out for a drink, play squash, whatever.

3. He is likely to tell you a little bit about any long-term past relationships, naming the woman he used to live with or was married to.

4. He is likely to tell you not only the names and ages of any children he has, but also how often he sees them, or, if he is the lone parent of them, he will tell you - without you needing to ask - about their childcare arrangements while he is at work.

5. He is likely to mention the weather in his region, his opinion of it, and, perhaps, how this compares to last year. He may also tell you detail of any of his pastimes: the name of the TV programme he watched, the name of the movie he saw, the name of the book he read.

6. He is likely to ask you if you enjoy some of his interests - do you like bars, the theatre, playing badminton? Where have you been on holiday?

7. He will probably, after a few letters, tell you a few stories about his family, his childhood or teens, past experiences in life. They will NOT all be tragic stories!

8. He will usually, if he likes you, tell you exactly what he likes about you and why.

But this is what you would expect from a scammer:

1. He will probably not tell you any specific details of his work, or his daily routines, or his everyday life.

2. He will probably not name his friends, or tell you what he and they do together.

3. He will probably only mention 'being hurt' and/or other sad stories regarding past relationships. For example, his ex-wife may have died, or he may have caught her in bed with his best friend.

4. If he claims to have children, then they probably will either be vaguely 'living with their mother' or they will be living with him, but there will be little or no explanation of what they do or where they are when he is working.

5. He will probably not tell you his opinions on anything specific.

6. He will probably seem unbothered about you having interests that he would not enjoy, or you not enjoying his interests.

7. He will probably not tell you 'ordinary' stories of his past life. No recalling of childhood games, or teenage pranks, no story of how he felt when he first started work, or descriptions of houses he has lived in. Nothing chatty.

8. He is likely to talk about loving you, but without mentioning WHICH personality traits or attitudes he so much loves. He will probably tell you that you are beautiful, without naming WHAT he finds so particularly beautiful.

Again, this is not conclusive. There are some shy genuine date-seekers. And there are some very clever and chatty scammers. But they are some more signs to look out for. You will usually need to correspond with him for a couple of weeks at least to reach this stage. Maybe even longer. During that time, do NOT mention love, do not go on to YIM, do not receive any telephone calls. If he gets pushy about YIM or telephone calls, tell him that you need to know him a little bit better first.

And: it is best not to post about a 'Love Lad' until you have been through ALL these checks.

To recap:

- Do you have an unattractive dating profile that a genuine man is very unlikely to be interested in?

- Is his dating profile full of 'clues' that he is a scammer?

- Does his IP address show that he is located in West African country?

- Have you written him boring letters for at least two weeks, and still he has replied to them?

- Does he fail to write about the things that a real man would write about, but, instead, writes in the way you would expect a scammer to write?

If the answer to ANY of those is 'No', then you cannot yet have any real certainty that he is indeed a genuine scammer. So err on the side of caution, and do not yet publicise him in any way.

If the answer to ALL the above is 'Yes', then it is very likely that you have a Love Lad writing to you.

You still won't be 100% sure until he asks for money. So continue to 'play it gently' until that time. Make no promises, make no offers, do not talk of love. You can admit to 'liking' him at this stage, if you wish. You can say you look forward to his emails. But keep it light and slow until he makes the money request.

Once someone - who has ALSO fulfilled all the above checklist - has made the money request, you know you have got a Lad. And NOW, and only now, can you go into full baiting mode and start messing him around.

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Mortal
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Brilliant post, thank you very much Branwen.
Sure is going to help a LOT.

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Robert Heinrich der 1.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

actually, it's their work-time.

you might try one thing:

the scammer should try to get you (according to what I know) to email instead of lokal pm-systems. then asem this address. if he reacts according to the mail, it's a scammer.

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extremeb
419Eater is my life


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I set up an account on 4ppl just recently. My profile looks like this:

Quote:
I am looking for a woman who is sympathetic with a man who is unstable and hears voices. I enjoy ice cream and cartoons. Looking for some mutual touching, but nothing more than that. Did I mention I hear voices. What?


My profile pic:

Image

So, as Branwen says, nobody in their right mind would legitamately contact this guy.

In no time I have had several messages in my inbox. Although I have not confirmed they are truly a lad as yet, there initial email to me looks like this:

Quote:
Hello, My name is happyness i saw your profile here (4ppl.com) today and became interested in you,i will also like to know you the more and establish a relationship that is basses on truth and trust with you


Quote:
Hello My name is Miss Tessy Desmond. i saw your profile today at (4ppl.com) and become intrested in you,i will also like to know more about you,and i want you to send a mail direct to my email address


Lad almost 99.99% sure. But, to be 100% sure, follow Branwens advice before you go for the bait.

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Dorothy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Branwen gave an excellent explanation. I would just like to add one thing from my personal perspective.

Romance scams would probably be right at the top of the list for damage (both financial losses and emotional damage to the victims). They are also the most under-baited--just look at how quiet this forum is compared to many others.

Because of this, I personally believe it is best to focus on the scammers who are most likely to be successful. The one who admits he/she is African may be the most willing to provide a cool trophy, but that is partly because he/she is less
successful (i.e. more desperate). The truth is, the majority of potential vics will walk away when the
money requests begin (if they respond at all). The ones who are most likely to be successful are the ones who play a role that fits into their victim's world-if targeting women, their characters will be over 40, successful, claiming to be from the US or Europe. Or they will be soldiers on active duty. If targeting men, their characters will be young, physically attractive, usually caucasian or lighter
skinned, also from the US or Europe. They may admit to being in Africa, but will not admit to being African (some female characters will claim one parent is African). If you want to have the most impact in terms of victims, these are the scammers you want to target (and de-educate whenever possible). The others may be scammers too, but with limited time and resources, I personally would rather see them used where they are most effective.

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internationalchrysis
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

extremeb wrote:
i saw your profile today at (4ppl.com) and become intrested in you,i will also like to know more about you,and i want you to send a mail direct to my email address


I have had DOZENS of emails with that very quote in just this year alone, but to be safe I always write back, I am sorry but I am only looking to meet other Australians. If they ignore that and blather on with their script, it's almost certainly "game on , moles!" time

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extremeb
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ After my initial "I'm interested in you" reply, I usually get the refugee sob story back. To which I reply:

Quote:
Your life sounds pretty dramatic, you better send me more photos so I can be sure your worth my time
Linus


Once they reply back with more format, then it's definately game on.

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internationalchrysis
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:22 am Reply with quoteBack to top

@ Extreme_b I actually saw you in 4ppl.com yesterday... I toyed with the idea of saying you were hot Wink

_________________
Proud "member" of "The Todger Club"!

Safari x1 (Senegal to Gambia)
"You can go now and f*ck yourself with a donkey or horse because you really need to be f*cked by a donkey or horse"
(George Michael's brother Frank/Frannypoo)

"You are a dead meat!"
(Léon the (Not so) Professional)

Closed lad accounts (19 in total:
x2 Léon the (not so) Professional. x4 Via Swindler's list. x4 Via Will and Grace the Law Firm. x3 *Hitman, x1 Hitman: The sequel!, , x1 Haiti scam, x1 The Bimbo (via Umbongo Chambers),
x1 Rita the ETA eater, x1 Via Team Doughnut, x1 Via Prince Emaka, x4 via the Nazis)
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leonsumbitches
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Branwen: that explanation should be made a sticky! Bookmarked.

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The Scam Hunter
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:21 am Reply with quoteBack to top

leonsumbitches wrote:
Branwen: that explanation should be made a sticky! Bookmarked.


Definitely!!

Awesome list of who is and who ain't.

My favs are Vladettes. They tend to be better educated, but if you know a thing or two about FSU (Former Soviet Union) culture it's easy to string them along and my Ukrainian bride is always handy to ask a question if I get stumped. And of course having actually visited some of the cities these girls claim to be from makes the bait a bit more interesting.

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extremeb
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

internationalchrysis wrote:
@ Extreme_b I actually saw you in 4ppl.com yesterday... I toyed with the idea of saying you were hot Wink


Tell me the truth...is it that tattoo on my forehead that makes me so hot? Laughing

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Mortal
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Also one more question - if I spot something what I believe is scammer, but I don't get contacted, is it okay to contact him and then follow Branwen's guide?

I'm talking about this guy http://www.4ppl.com/Braiard - uses celebrity photos, poor description etc.

_________________
Sand Timer Closed lad accounts x87 Cellphone x5 Easter Egg 2011 Mortar
Safari Ugly Duckling with Mountain Goat and Osazee : Cameroon -> Nigeria
Safari Paul with Just Cold: Benin -> Lagos -> Abuja
Safari George: Accra -> Togo I really want to do business with you, because i know you are an Angel send to rescue me by God.
Czech RepublicUnited StatesNigeriaGhanaGermany x6
GOD PUNISH YOU, GOD PUNISH YOU, GOD PUNISH YOU. Mr. Olisa
Every night a phonecall from you, you talk rubbish. Mr. Olisa
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extremeb
419Eater is my life


Joined: 29 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ To quote Branwen

Quote:
When he writes back, tell him something uninteresting about what happened in your character's life today, eg: 'Thank you for your letter, it has been cold here today. I bought some new gloves this afternoon. Then I visited my Gran and we had a cup of coffee.'

As time goes on, you can expand upon that: BUT keep it to rather boring 'penpal' type letters until you are CERTAIN he is a scammer


If he's a scammer he will surely 1. Profess his love for you within a few emails. 2. Ask you for financial help

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Mortal
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ok, thanks for bearing with me Smile

_________________
Sand Timer Closed lad accounts x87 Cellphone x5 Easter Egg 2011 Mortar
Safari Ugly Duckling with Mountain Goat and Osazee : Cameroon -> Nigeria
Safari Paul with Just Cold: Benin -> Lagos -> Abuja
Safari George: Accra -> Togo I really want to do business with you, because i know you are an Angel send to rescue me by God.
Czech RepublicUnited StatesNigeriaGhanaGermany x6
GOD PUNISH YOU, GOD PUNISH YOU, GOD PUNISH YOU. Mr. Olisa
Every night a phonecall from you, you talk rubbish. Mr. Olisa
Juan's hidden fries!
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extremeb
419Eater is my life


Joined: 29 Sep 2010
Posts: 407


PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:55 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ I'm pretty new at this romance baiting as well... One thing I have noticed is that it is much easier baiting as a female character. When I use a male character, they all seem to end up as refugee lads. I thought it would be hard trying to impersonate a female, but as long as you have a pulse and reply and give the lads the idea that there is a payday, it's no problem.

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Dorothy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:02 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Clearly fake profiles are fair game--but ultimately you still need to proceed with caution until you are sure they are truly scammers, as opposed to desperate people looking for attention, or even baiters. One other advantage of baiting those who claim to be North American or European is that it's a bit easier to show they are scammers--if you have the right combination of language and an IP that shows they are really in Africa or Malaysia when they claim to be near you, you can determine pretty quickly that you are dealing with a scammer.

extremeb -
The best way to get females that aren't going to turn into refugees is to target those who claim to be American (or Canadian, or British)--start with those who put a non-African location in their profile and claim to be nurses, models, interior decorators, jewelry dealers, etc. (all professions that will be used to explain the "trip" to Africa.)

Here are a few examples of profiles that will turn out to be scammers, and should not be able to evolve into a refugee scam.

http://www.4ppl.com/tellg (hint: tineye the pics)
http://www.4ppl.com/anigrant4love (ooh, look, it's a camgirl/porn actress--http://www.madgirlthumbs.com/galleries/sweetnaturalgirl/8/)

Personally I love this 33 year old African American: http://www.4ppl.com/gudmum (If the model is 33, I must be about 60 now)

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extremeb
419Eater is my life


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:21 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ The ones that I've replied to have all claimed to be American in their profiles, but the first email I've gotten is the refugee format. Do you think I should call them on it? Like..."Hey your profile said your were from New York"

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Dorothy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The key is to focus on the location immediately. If they contact you, immediately tell them how excited you are to meet someone from wherever they claim.

If you are reasonably certain they are a scammer, you can also approach them first with a "hey, I see you're from ___. That's not too far from (me, my brother I am going to visit, etc.) I'd love to get together for dinner or something!" That puts them in a situation of having to play along.

Note, the last one I posted, who claims African American, is a little more likely to try to go back to the refugee format--since "she" is claiming African American, she may try something like "mom died and I moved to Africa where grandma lives" or something like that. But, then I'm sure you will contact the American Embassy on her behalf...after all, she is an American citizen and she does not need to be in a place like that...

Edit to add: The ones who actually spam the refugee format are least likely to play along, as that format is often the only approach they can manage...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

*takes notes*

thanks for all the wonderful advices. Also one thing I have spotted - is it common that people that might be scammers have other suspicious looking people in their friends, who I assume are scammer's other accounts?

Also, I would like to know your opinion about those two - both don't have much details and replied to my unattractive looking profile ( http://www.4ppl.com/kiddingjay )


He sent me
Quote:
hi i am rehan 39 from india never marry want to marry searching and i am very slim and not so faire but good looking i am very hot no smokeing no drink no kids i hope we can move from herer i want true love nothing else i am middle class man doing job i can keep u happy so plz send me ur pic and detail or plz call me (appears to be afghanistan number) or mail me on <snip> i like one thing in sex i love to suck pussy deepily till u like ok .so we can go ahead i wait 4 ur replied soon bye take care


The other guy would be
http://www.4ppl.com/wasa1111

Opinions, please? Smile

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

No to both.

I think the "kidding" in the first one's name may be literal. That could be a baiter, or a true "joker." It could possibly be a pervert, but it is not consistent with scammer either way. I have learned to put "no pervs" in my profile, and then I just respond with a reference to the "no pervs" statement if ones like that respond.

The second is also very inconsistent with a scammer profile. Scammers playing males do sometimes use more "average" photos of men, but they are not likely to use a photo of a man with a disability (unless the scammer is on a dating site for people with disabilities). In addition, the text in a male profile tends to be highly romantic, is often religious, and is intended to make the scammer very innocent and desirable. The "accept me" line is too well written and is inconsistent with the scammer approach, as it doesn't suggest the perfect man...

Looking at the home pages right now, there are several that have red flags, but these profiles scream scammer:

http://www.4ppl.com/stephens1968
http://www.4ppl.com/faithuche200 (ooh look a focus Hawaii model!)
http://www.4ppl.com/maria4luv24
http://www.4ppl.com/brownr (this one suffers from some gender confusion--and check out these search results)
And then we see the exact same phrases in this one: http://www.4ppl.com/joizz11

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ok, thanks. Just for the record, that kidding one is me. Wink

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

oops! How weird! When in general reading mode, your post reads like normal, with the kiddingjay profile and the rehan profile showing.

When I hit "reply" however, and scroll down to your post, it looks like this:

Quote:
Also, I would like to know your opinion about those two - both don't have much details and replied to my unattractive looking profile ( http://www.4ppl.com/kiddingjay )


He sent me
Quote:
hi i am rehan 39 from india never marry want to marry searching and i am very slim and not so faire but good looking i am very hot no smokeing no drink no kids i hope we can move from herer i want true love nothing else i am middle class man doing job i can keep u happy so plz send me ur pic and detail or plz call me (appears to be afghanistan number) or mail me on <snip> i like one thing in sex i love to suck pussy deepily till u like ok .so we can go ahead i wait 4 ur replied soon bye take care


The other guy would be
http://www.4ppl.com/wasa1111

Opinions, please? Smile


So it looks like the rehan message was sent from the kiddingjay profile!

Ok, so kiddingjay is clearly a baiter Smile

rehan looks like a perv (I had based the perv comment on the letter--the letter itself, without the profile, says "not a scammer." For example, he says he doesn't want to marry--scammers are exactly opposite--they are looking for a soulmate to marry--if there is no future together, there is no basis for money requests).

The other, same comments as before.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:15 am Reply with quoteBack to top

extremeb wrote:
^^^ After my initial "I'm interested in you" reply, I usually get the refugee sob story back. To which I reply:

Quote:
Your life sounds pretty dramatic, you better send me more photos so I can be sure your worth my time
Linus


Once they reply back with more format, then it's definately game on.


LMAO

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ Extreme, yeah, that TATT is HOT! I'll add it to my collection Shocked

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