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 Fretless guitar

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leonsumbitches
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I love Indian music, and recently decided to defret one of my cheap electric guitars so I can more easily get the microtones.

There are a few ways to do this:

1. Replace fretboard with a blank (most expensive and time consuming)

2. Use soldering iron, pliers, wood putty, and sanding paper to remove the frets and refinish (cheap, fast, and the most common way of defretting a guitar)

3. Apply epoxy to the fretboard, sand down to an even finish, and then adjust the action appropriately. Perhaps the fastest and cheapest way.

Has anyone here got experience with this? Any advice on which method to avoid?

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leonsumbitches
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I defretted the guitar in less than ten minutes.

The first fret I tried was the 24th. I used a soldering iron, worked the fret out with a strangely shaped putty scraper I found somewhere. It came out cleanly, no chipping.

The next fret I decided to experiment with, and simply pried it out a few millimeters at a time. It came out perfectly, no chipping, no soldering needed.

I went up the neck and got all the frets out in the same manner, without chipping.

I went over the fretboard with a rag to clean off any dust, put new strings on, and it plays well.

The sustain is wanting, but that's only due to not being used to stopping the strings without frets. I could get a sustainer if I wanted, but for my purposes it's not really necessary.

I'm not even going to bother refilling the fret slots. I may decide to epoxy the fretboard to help the sustain.

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I DON'T. Buy the tomatoes with. The stems. On them. They don't. Degrade. They go. Down the sink. And into the WATER. Then. They get lodged in the throats of little. OTTERS.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Please try to figure out a way to make this into a baiting modality.

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leonsumbitches
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ Well, it could be possible to get a lad to destroy his guitar by giving him bad advice.

Better, somehow convince him to buy several on credit and modify them in preparation for your band to arrive.

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I DON'T. Buy the tomatoes with. The stems. On them. They don't. Degrade. They go. Down the sink. And into the WATER. Then. They get lodged in the throats of little. OTTERS.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

How would the addition of epoxy to the fretboard affect tonality of the notes? It may act as a dampener itself being a dissimilar material?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hmm, the Sitar seems to be a very complex instrument. It looks like the fretless finger board is a very hard and well finished wood. If you are using a six string it will be an interesting experiment as the sitar has 20 strings. 7 'plang' and 13 'sympathetic'.Shocked So split tuning may be required.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTqxDkgbwXE

The empty fret slots may cause problems of wanting to stop the string and have a dead sound from hitting the edge of that empty fret slot which is now soft. Filling those slots and resurfacing with several coats of poly may help.

If the guitar is electric it will be an interesting experiment, as electronics can do wonders. Once you have it where you want it, I would be interested to hear it if you can record and post. Good Luck ! Very Happy

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leonsumbitches
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Badgerbait: Epoxy fretboards are more commonly found on bass, such as Jaco Pastorius's bass. For fretless guitar, an epoxy coat often can help the sustain. A layer of epoxy also helps prevent the strings from chewing through the wood over time.

Other people have replaced their fretboard surface with glass or metal. The last is inpired by the sarod. The sarod is an Indian instrument with a smooth metal fretboard, played by stopping the notes with the fingernails. It has a very distinctive sound.

Seamless: there are lots of ways of modifying a guitar to get sitar-like sounds. People can go fretless, or replace the frets with adjustable ones. Actual droning strings can be added. A jawari (the flat bone bridge which the strings twang against) can be added.

This is one attempt at modifying a guitar. He scalloped the frets, added moveable frets, and added some droning strings.

A few decades ago Danelectro produced electric sitars. These were guitars with a jawari and droning strings with their own lipstick pickups. It was a novelty, and not much used except as a fad. There are now pedals to produce this effect as well.

As for tuning, the easiest way is too tune it is to only use root and fifth, such as EBEEBE. People have gotten interesting results even with DADGAD tuning.

It helps to refill the slots, but this seems mostly for aesthetics. I can't hear any artifacts from them.

ETA:

Ustad Ali Akbar Khan on the sarod: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KXYHPXopMI
Simon Hayden playing fretless: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72iB8jYNbDk
Ravi Shankar playing Kirwani Gat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYlPcbNAPH8&feature=related

_________________
I DON'T. Buy the tomatoes with. The stems. On them. They don't. Degrade. They go. Down the sink. And into the WATER. Then. They get lodged in the throats of little. OTTERS.

GYV::Tanstaafl::Abiga::Game-theory::Church-Sites Easter Egg 2011
Closed lad accounts x 18 (10 from Tanstaafl baits) United Kingdom x 5 United States x 2 Ivory Coast Netherlands Malaysia Nigeria x 2 Spain
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leonsumbitches
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I was playing around and discovered that without adjusting the action, a cd placed on the fretboard offers perfect sustain and an interesting tonality.

I may cut up a bunch of cd's and layer the fretboard with them. This would give me an interesting sound, as well as a very cool aesthetic (mirror-side up).

I wonder if this has been done before.

_________________
I DON'T. Buy the tomatoes with. The stems. On them. They don't. Degrade. They go. Down the sink. And into the WATER. Then. They get lodged in the throats of little. OTTERS.

GYV::Tanstaafl::Abiga::Game-theory::Church-Sites Easter Egg 2011
Closed lad accounts x 18 (10 from Tanstaafl baits) United Kingdom x 5 United States x 2 Ivory Coast Netherlands Malaysia Nigeria x 2 Spain
Safari SW Bait - Cl3tus Orof3 Accra->8auchi->Accra->Lagos, co-bait with Nowhere Man, Bravo, The Dane & psychicbait
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:02 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
I may cut up a bunch of cd's and layer the fretboard with them, I wonder if this has been done before.
Shocked

I don't think so.

Except maybe this guy.

Image

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You are a goat. And very stupid. I will deal with you very soon, just wait, I have all your contact address, and I will trace you very soon, for insulting me, all evidence of your insult to me has been filed.

Lawyer M4nu3l told me that you could be one of this terrorist in the usa. and I later find out on my research on you, that you are one of the bastards in wherever you are. not even in usa."


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leonsumbitches
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ So that's the purple dangly bits I've been hearing about.

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I DON'T. Buy the tomatoes with. The stems. On them. They don't. Degrade. They go. Down the sink. And into the WATER. Then. They get lodged in the throats of little. OTTERS.

GYV::Tanstaafl::Abiga::Game-theory::Church-Sites Easter Egg 2011
Closed lad accounts x 18 (10 from Tanstaafl baits) United Kingdom x 5 United States x 2 Ivory Coast Netherlands Malaysia Nigeria x 2 Spain
Safari SW Bait - Cl3tus Orof3 Accra->8auchi->Accra->Lagos, co-bait with Nowhere Man, Bravo, The Dane & psychicbait
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^^
Have your seen this www.unfretted.com
Might give you some help/tips.

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leonsumbitches
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ Yes, that's what pretty much convinced me to try it out.

_________________
I DON'T. Buy the tomatoes with. The stems. On them. They don't. Degrade. They go. Down the sink. And into the WATER. Then. They get lodged in the throats of little. OTTERS.

GYV::Tanstaafl::Abiga::Game-theory::Church-Sites Easter Egg 2011
Closed lad accounts x 18 (10 from Tanstaafl baits) United Kingdom x 5 United States x 2 Ivory Coast Netherlands Malaysia Nigeria x 2 Spain
Safari SW Bait - Cl3tus Orof3 Accra->8auchi->Accra->Lagos, co-bait with Nowhere Man, Bravo, The Dane & psychicbait
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

What I was getting at, leon, was the possibility of the interspaced epoxy fill on the otherwise wood fretboard. One would think a continuous piece of wood would carry vibration better? Like unto a violin's accoustic topography? Confused

_________________
I have arrived in Moscow. Has gone to bank and to me have told that there is no such transfer for me!!!!
What does it mean? You played with me? If it so that you very much the cruel man and I am assured of that that the god will see your cruelty.
Explain to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Alena Byk0va
-----------
Closed lad accounts x12 Goat Easter Egg Mortar x3 x4 Elite Ninja Team Member

We are Karma's soldiers.
<a href="/forum/donate.php">Mugu Gold</a>

I must be cruel, only to be kind:
Thus bad begins and worse remains behind.
-Hamlet, scene iv

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leonsumbitches
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ You have a point there, but I doubt the human brain can perceive the effect. If that were the case, we should be extremely worried about the effect on the tone caused by the torque bar, fret material, etc. Guitar reconstruction would be well nigh impossible.

_________________
I DON'T. Buy the tomatoes with. The stems. On them. They don't. Degrade. They go. Down the sink. And into the WATER. Then. They get lodged in the throats of little. OTTERS.

GYV::Tanstaafl::Abiga::Game-theory::Church-Sites Easter Egg 2011
Closed lad accounts x 18 (10 from Tanstaafl baits) United Kingdom x 5 United States x 2 Ivory Coast Netherlands Malaysia Nigeria x 2 Spain
Safari SW Bait - Cl3tus Orof3 Accra->8auchi->Accra->Lagos, co-bait with Nowhere Man, Bravo, The Dane & psychicbait
insults and more
How to kill a Badger
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Badgerbait
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You could be the first to build a Leonivarius Sweetar (Sitar anad Guitar combined). Think of the market! Surprised Quality fine tuned pices of hardwoods and softwoods combined to make a perfectly harmonious instrument!

_________________
I have arrived in Moscow. Has gone to bank and to me have told that there is no such transfer for me!!!!
What does it mean? You played with me? If it so that you very much the cruel man and I am assured of that that the god will see your cruelty.
Explain to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Alena Byk0va
-----------
Closed lad accounts x12 Goat Easter Egg Mortar x3 x4 Elite Ninja Team Member

We are Karma's soldiers.
<a href="/forum/donate.php">Mugu Gold</a>

I must be cruel, only to be kind:
Thus bad begins and worse remains behind.
-Hamlet, scene iv

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