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 Is scambaiting illegal?

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Dr Mike
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'd be happy to. I could use some more baiting. I just keep 2-3 going at the same time but i could do a lot more. You seem to have a baiting style that is really wild and crazy and i think i could benefit from working with you. I'm more of a strait baiter and i usually take it very slow.

Just pm me and we can work it out.

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Bart Fargo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Bart's 2 cents (pennies) here:

Scambaiting not illegal, we've already pointed that out.

Morally wrong? NO!!!! I think it would be the opposite, illegal to not bait these dregs of the human race. Just read up on the people they have scammed. And they only do it for their own greed. Not to "help" anoyne but themselves. Not only do we need to waste the time of these people but also educate the population about scammers so that they don't fall victim to this. Fewer scam victims=fewer scammers. Granted they may go find something else illegal to do, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Plus it's also a hell of a lot of FUN to f**k with their minds, that's the best part for me is the fun factor!!

Bait safe and welcome aboard. (Bart climbs off his soapbox)

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jose_cuervo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

grimbleton wrote:
here's an interesting twist on this. how about requiring the lad to make a verifiable donation to a legitimate charity?

say, for example, $20 to the red cross or something like that?


Why waste countless hours trying to convince a lad to send $20 to a charity, when you could get him to spend hundreds for a plane/bus/taxi ride, new cell phones and/or sim cards, cafe time, possible bribes paid at border crossings, meals, hotels etc. and then leave him stranded in a foreign country, penniless and alone, with far less time and effort on your part?

You would then receive a Safari for the safari and numerous emails from the lad expressing his anguish, fear, stress and anger (in great detail). If played correctly, after the safari is over, you can then blame the entire debacle on your lad's incompetence and possibly make him apologize for screwing up. Wink

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:39 am Reply with quoteBack to top

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dwatina
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:22 am Reply with quoteBack to top

To the OP: It's not the same.

For example: Those scammers contact innocent people (and our catcher accounts), but they contacted us. We didn't contact them. We are not the ones offering millions of dollars to someone if they pay $500 (or thousands) to get it. And we are not ripping people off.

I do see the question you were asking and I admit I at one time wondered about it. But I'm dealing with some of these lads and I can tell you one thing: They will lie to you and stab you in the back.

I have a few close friends who know I bait, and they ask about the legality of it. But they are more concerned with me getting in trouble doing it. They could care less about the morality. They figure the lads are getting what they deserve.

So long as everyone abides by the rules, there is really no issue so far as legality. If some jerk wants to try to rip me off, I can do whatever I want to mess with him (within the rules).

If someone is gonna offer a non-existent $25 million if I send him a "processing fee" then I figure I can make him jump through hoops to get my non-existent payment.

{Edit to add: To the OP--it was a good question and I hope you can see our side of it.}

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lakeside77
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:05 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Bankster wrote:
^^ If I may add to the above, in many countries it's a law or common practice not to prosecute you if the 'public interest' in a prosecution doesn't justify the effort.
In other words, even if a baiting-related activity is technically slightly illegal, the authorities are free to (and often will) sweep minor offences under the rug.


A few years ago I wandered into a forum that had a discussion thread related to 419 and scambaiting. An assistant prosecutor from Pennsylvania posted that yes, taking a scammer's cash was illegal but in his jurisdiction the scammer would have to come in and file a complaint before he could consider prosecution. Zero chance of that happening. Another poster commented that he would probably find it difficult to seat a jury.

The largest "haul" that I know of from a cash bait was $100, but $5 is more typical. No prosecutor or police department is going to try to track down and bring in a baiter for a $5 con.

As posted before, cash baiting is illegal and wrong but nobody is going to do time for it. For me, it's "two wrongs don't make a right."

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ChoppaOfDolla
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:54 am Reply with quoteBack to top

SlapHappy wrote:
Every art bait here I have seen is legal. The lad signs an agreement form before any art is sent. Sample art must be accepted as up to the standards of the buyer or whoever. If it doesn't meet the requirements as determined by the buyer, it is rejected, and no payment will be sent to the lad.


I'm not so sure that would stand up in court; as the baiter was clearly deceiving the lad and had no intention of paying money under any circumstances, he might still be liable due to misrepresentation (simply signing an agreement doesn't automatically make it legally valid).

That said, the chances of it ever reaching a court are effectively zero.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:54 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Choppaofdolla wrote:
The cops aren't interested in prosecuting baiters.


Unfortunately most of them aren't interested in prosecuting scammers either Crying or Very sad
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ChoppaOfDolla
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^ That's true, for a lot of reasons. There's very little chance of success, the jurisdiction of the crime is hazy, and there's virtually no chance of recovering the money.

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u got 12 hours to send the money remember no game u fuck face

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rocknrollnobody
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:43 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I bait lads simply to waste their time. No other moral or ethical reasons affect my decisions to do this.

The more time they spend walking backwards and forwards to the WU office, the less time they have to scam vunerable people out of their life savings.

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grimbleton
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Badgerbait wrote:
Two wrongs do not make a right, ever.


but 3 lefts do! Very Happy


Badgerbait wrote:
Asking for a donation to a legitimate charitable organization would be nice but it is still illegal and now you have involved an Innocent Third Party.


damned semantics. always screwing up my fun!


Badgerbait wrote:
I am sure they do not want ill gotten gains.


point well made. however, i know there are a lot of GOOD charities out there that ... naw... you made too good a point. can't argue with it.


Badgerbait wrote:
Artifacts and documents sent by scammers are not bringing anyone to the darkside. they are trophies and do not equate to cash baiting. Most of the things they send are of no monetary value.


what about ... but if... the... damn. you're no fun anymore. you never take me anywhere. why don't you tell me that i'm PRETTY sometimes? you never kiss me with your eyes OPEN you bastard! i'm going home to mother!

Badgerbait wrote:
Please review the ethics thread.


i did. but i never recalled seeing anything addressing the potential of my hypothetical. meh. live and learn.


Badgerbait wrote:
Thank you.


au contraire mon frere!

cheers


grimbleton

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Last edited by grimbleton on Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Black Dog
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Scam baiting is far from illegal.

I have been a bit quiet lately while working with a "60 Minutes style show" in Australia for a few months doing a big story on scam baiting and my scam baiting work has been seen by all sorts of legal people along the way and all it has gotten is laughs from them all.

There is nothing more satisfying than hearing lad pain from a scammer on safari or any other activity we set them onto

In a world full of injustice, if we as baiters are the only ones capable of dishing out a little justice to these lads then there is not a legal person or lad hugger anywhere who should object to what we do

Happy Baitin'

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foo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

grimbleton wrote:
but 3 lefts do! Very Happy

Only if they're all right angles or otherwise add up to 270°.

Quote:
you never kiss me with your eyes OPEN you bastard!

Because as far as I know human eyes are actually incapable of focusing on anything that close. Wink

Badgerbait wrote:
Please review the ethics thread.

There's just one? Wink

Alright. Now that I'm done making fun of you guys: I'll just quote the same line I always do in ethics threads.
NickTheCop wrote:
If bullshitting people on the internet was a crime, then we'd all need to be in hiding.


As long as we don't do this for personal gain, I don't see why it would break any laws. We're not stealing from them, we're not physically harming them. All we're doing is wasting their time and making it harder for them to break other laws.

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Badgerbait
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Grimbleton,
Ethics are not to be made fun of.

That vast majority of baiters here would be in agreeance. They are things, like lads, we wrestle with daily. I can promise you that every baiter here has had some temptation given to him or her by an incredibly stupid lad or run out of technique to frustrate lads. That is why we have these threads pop up so often. They allow individuals to dialouge with fellow baiters, sort of a "opinion gathering and how can I correct my train of thought to do the right thing by all parties involved while causing the most pain to lads" rap session.

For reference, the ITP doctrine is not semantic.

edit: I stand corrected by foo, there are MANY ethics threads Very Happy

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
I see nothing wrong with sending lads to inconvenient locations, like Timbucktu, that are filled with troops with guns, lousy bug-infested hotels, 120F degree temperatures, and unfamiliar foods.


I see nothing wrong with it in the least. It's not as though they're being carried there in a state of bondage. They go willingly in pursuit of criminal activity, so if they get shot, beaten or starved in that pursuit, tough luck for them.

It would be as though I were attempting to snatch someone's purse and she pushed me and I fell down a hill and broke my leg. Tough luck for me too.

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BobCarlson
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I don't think there's anything immoral about baiting as long as you don't cash bait or get innocent third parties involved. Most of us bait like that so most baiters , I think , are quite ethical.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my post, that really wasn't my intention!

It's just that if you've been here for a while, this ethics question rears it's ugly head on a regular basis.

The search function on the 'eater works very well, I just wish that new visitors here would use it.

Once again, apologies and welcome to 419eater.

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grimbleton
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Bart Fargo wrote:
Plus it's also a hell of a lot of FUN to f**k with their minds, that's the best part for me is the fun factor!!


a good mind-fuck is a terrible thing to waste. Twisted Evil

cheers


grimbleton

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grimbleton
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Badgerbait wrote:
Ethics are not to be made fun of.


should they be respected and followed? certainly! but should they be made fun of? certainly. (everything should be good for a laugh. especially when it's a good, sensible point.)

Badgerbait wrote:
That vast majority of baiters here would be in agreeance.


as am i.

Badgerbait wrote:
They are things, like lads, we wrestle with daily.


wrestling with moral/ethical issues is precisely one of those things that makes us "human". Smile


Badgerbait wrote:
... how can I correct my train of thought to do the right thing by all parties involved while causing the most pain to lads ...


and that, "my most estemed friend in allah's name" is what it's all about. not just doing what is right, but in doing the right thing.


Badgerbait wrote:
ITP doctrine is not semantic.


i was being silly. i guess i failed in that attempt. oh well. so many messages and so little time.

cheers


grimbleton[/u]

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