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 This would take a lot of work but be totally worth it!

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Snowy_owl
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

While I was working today I came up with an idea. It's a longshot at best that it would ever happen as it would take a lot of time, effort, and money to make it actually happen.

Here's the idea:

At Super Bowl XLVI on February 5, 2012, we can have a 30-second commercial quickly going over all the different types of 419 fraud that exist and advising everyone to never fall for any of those scams.

A 30-second ad for the Super Bowl would cost a little less than US$3,000,000.

I'd be willing to donate $500 toward the cause if another 5,999 people would match me.

Super Bowl XLIV was watched by 106,500,000 people in the United States alone. That is over 1/3 of the entire United States population.

That would do quite a bit of damage to lads if I do say so myself.

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gerald.fird
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:22 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, people know about this. They just can't connect one with one.

Plus, I doubt their will be too many people willing to pay 500.

Good idea, but maybe too hard to do in practice.

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DungDigger
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:02 am Reply with quoteBack to top

It's a great idea SnowyOwl but beyond the reach of my little piggy bank I'm afraid.

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gerald.fird
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I can't even get 1 dollar let alone 25 or 500.

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Brainiac
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:59 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Snowy Owl, don't let go of that idea. This may simply require some
out-of-the-box thinking. Rather than pass the hat here, how about a
corporate sponsor?

Currently in the US there is an ad running. Anybody else seen this. Along those lines, to warn of scams. It doesn't mention Nigeria or the number 419 but it gets the basic idea across.
It's sponsored by Internet Explorer 8. I'll try to explain quickly.

Scene: at a bank employee's desk, different people are asked for their
Soc. Sec. #, bank acct #, etc. the person behind the desk is helping them fill out a form. Then voice-over says "Every day, Internet Explorer helps stop scams." Something to that effect. Makes me wonder if it's actually sponsored by Bill Gates and/or Microsoft. (Bill could afford a
Super-Bowl ad.) Eh, whaddya think ??

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Snowy_owl
Great thinking!
Snowy_owl wrote:
A 30-second ad for the Super Bowl would cost a little less than US$3,000,000.

This a lot of money for everyone here. So it just struck me that this would be in the nation's better interest. So maybe it's possible to get the US government to finance it.

You see, I once read a summary of an FBI report that stated that over half of the cash flow from USA to Nigeria is scam money. That's not good for any nation as it is just money down the drain - There is no value created for USA due to scam cash flow.

The other issue is the expenses to investigate scam cases, would be reduced.

I see that as two good reasons for the government to put up such warnings at any major spectator event over there.

So maybe somebody over there should should take this to the FBI or even the white house.
And what's in it for us? - Well, our lads would have more time play with us if they have less real victims LOL_sign

So this might be something for somebody with a bit of connection to the government.

Do we happen to have a lobbyist around?

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dennispennis
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I don´t want to give up my hobby.

Embarassed

besides what about the other 9 tenths of the world who don´t give a flying fig about superbowl.

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Snowy_owl
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Maybe in the UK we could play the ad during a Manchester United-Arsenal football game or something. I don't know what is watched the most over there.

In order to make this work we would have to spread the word to a lot of people, and try to convince someone with a lot of money that running the ad would be a good idea. I'm aiming for Super Bowl XLVI rather than Super Bowl XLV because that way we have 18 months to get it done.

The question is, what would the ad say? In 30 seconds we'd have to cover a lot of ground.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Snowy_owl
We don't have the same tradition for commercials in Europe, so it might not have the same effect over here.

I do still think the idea is good - So good that governments should be encouraged to finance it.

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Snowy_owl
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It would take a lot of convincing. Like I said, we need a LOT of people to get together to push the idea. Financing the idea would be the biggest hurdle of all, but who knows, maybe we'll have an anonymous benefactor or something.

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JonesJohn
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Nice idea, but $500 is a lot of money. And i figure that is just the cost of the advertising time? Making an commercial cost money as well right?

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conga22
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

JonesJohn wrote:
Making an commercial cost money as well right?


Perhaps we could get some lads to do that Laughing

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YouNeverGiveMeYourMoney
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:57 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Snowy_owl wrote:
Maybe in the UK we could play the ad during a Manchester United-Arsenal football game or something. I don't know what is watched the most over there.

The most watched shows over here are on the BBC, which doesn't advertise. Sports shows aren't watched nearly as highly as the Superbowl. The closest equivalent would be the X Factor final, probably, but I don't think ITV would let you buy a one-off commercial.

Commendable idea, but I can't see 60 people offering $500, let alone 6000.

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MikeandLouise
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Why don't you contact the church of the TWAT.
I hear that they give out money to a good cause. I'm sure they would be willing to help Laughing

A good idea actually. In fact any commercial could help towards getting the public to spot a scam a mile off, but funding is an issue.

Especially at that price. £3 million for a 30 second commercial?

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Snowy_owl
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yeah, it's that price for the Super Bowl. It is the most watched event on television. There are easily over 100,000,000 viewers in the United States, and the thing is that since so many people are watching many companies save their best new commercials for the Super Bowl, and everyone watching knows this, so they pay attention to the commercials like they do at no other event, ever. I'd say 95-98% of the viewers would watch that commercial and not change the channel, especially if the commercial played early in the game. If this was actually going to happen and other people were pledging money I'd try to pledge as much as $1,000, but that would be pushing it. Let's try and put this together!

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"Ogun kill you for wasting my time. if you need cc i can give you and if you continue like this okada will jam your papa"
"WHAT THE YOU WANT FROM ME PLEASE TELL ME I ASK YOU FOR YOUR FIRST PAGE PASSPORT OR ANY VALID ID NOT ANY SEXING PIC"

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Snowy_owl
I know you are exited about the idea, I really appreciate that, trust me I do!

But you also have to be realistic: Given the member count here, you will have 15,000 US citizens among them at most. I think that less than half of the members here are active, and among the active members quite a few (lot) will be students or other low income people. So raising $3,000,000 plus production costs here is very unlikely to ever happen.

But with this said, I still like the idea very much Thumbs up

So lets look at the government model:
USA has some 310,232,863 inhabitants (CIA world fact book). So this is less than $.01 per person, and USA has a GDP per capita of $46,400 (still CIA world fact book).

So what do you think is the easiest: Getting a few thousand to pay $500 each or getting 310,232,863 to pay $.01 each?

My point is that most of you guys over there throw away food for more than ten times that amount every day, so I think just about everybody over there could spare a dime for this.

I hope I didn't offend you in any - I still think it's a great idea, I just don't agree on your funding model Confused

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I know what you're thinking MUGU — "Am I a lion or only a cat?"
Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself.
But being a lion, the most powerful predator in the world I would bite your MUGU head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question:
"Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, MUGU?

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YOU GET EXTRA HURTY DEATH AFTERR YOU WORDS - Hitbadger - Now one of us, you're so welcome Exclamation
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GET ME MONEY THEM I WILL TELL YOU WERE HE HIS, JUST MONEY ANY ABOUT BECAUSE I HATE THAT BUSTARD. - Same hitlad Smile
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DungDigger
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

SnowyOwl I still like the idea of getting global attention for this. The bottom line is that people are killing themselves because they've lost everything; they're losing homes, all their life savings .. on and on. That's why it's important and that's why I share your determination to do global things about it. No way are any of us raining on your parade - the money is an issue though.

While there's no way I could run to $500 - I'm currently getting over a long illness and am watching every penny - what about looking at extra ways of using an advertising campaign which won't cost as much and yet may encourage big hitters to stump up cash for a global advertising campaign in the way you're talking about. I'm thinking Branson, Gates,

My thinking is that one of the most successful ways of getting an ad out there and being passed around like wildfire is to make a very funny ad that goes viral. The serious points can still be made, but a) there's a longer time to grab people's attention, b) it sticks in the mind because it's funny, c) it's cheap.

An alternative is to make a really hard hitting one. For instance - a crowd of actors of different nationalities and a voiceover saying things like - oh I don't know - "some of these people stole your mother's house. Some of them drove your friend to kill himself. Some took the life savings down to the last cent of your grandparents or your neighbors - people wanting to do good for charity. Some of these people threatened someone you know with murder and rape, or found out where they lived and attacked them in their own homes. Who are these people? Scammers. People who send spam emails pretending that you've won the lottery, or their charity needs help, or they're a refugee orphan.

And so on. yada yada yada you get the picture. Just an undeveloped idea off the top of my head.

There are loads of opportunities to do something globally, and in our own countries. For instance, the superbowl is nothing like as big in europe as it is in the states.

Anyway. I'll shut up now. For the moment Laughing

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meloncoly
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

It's the non-superbowl watchers that fall for the scams
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Mega Bandit
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I think anything that can raise public awareness of 419 fraud is a good thing; a significant number of people become victims simply because they aren't aware such scams exist. Of course, some would continue to fall for them anyway, but I'm certain that if a lot more people knew about the standard types of advance fee fraud, the victim rate would see a very noticeable decline. We can't educate everyone in the whole world, but we can certainly educate more.

A 30-second Superbowl commercial probably wouldn't be the best, or most practical, way to go about raising awareness. You just can't get that much information across in 30 seconds, and it's insanely expensive. Great conversation starter, though! Thumbs up

A cheaper and longer-lasting alternative would be to start some more conventional awareness raising campaigns. I might start out by raising awareness of some of the larger 419 awareness-raising groups (such as AA419 and our own 419eater)--and, more importantly--getting said groups' support in sending letters and emails to the right people for the purpose of further raising awareness and getting some ads commissioned for television. Groups--and, of course, individuals--can send emails and letters to congressmen, mayors, lobbyists, miscellaneous politicians, TV executives, other anti-crime campaigners, and whoever else might be able to influence some awareness-raising campaigns.

Chuda has the right idea. Tell the people in power all the benefits of preventing fraud. Benefits not just for the individuals, but for the economy, businesses, and the government. Send letters-to-the-editor, get things in the newspaper. Tell more people on the Internet (although frequent internet-users may be among the less susceptible). Get the word out any way possible. People do that all the time for their idiotic political rantings and advertisements--why not do the same for scam awareness?

I've seen a ton of PSA's on TV about all kinds of bad things. Anti-smoking ads, anti drunk-driving ads, anti-drug ads, all sorts of things warning people against the dangers of stuff a lot of them will probably just do anyway. But if people knew about scammers, they'd be more careful--and yet I've never seen an ad warning about advance fee fraud. For many, it will be preaching to the choir, and many current victims won't think anything of it; clearly, this is ultimately irrelevant if some potential future victims are educated by it. I haven't seen the ad that Brainiac saw, which probably means it isn't being aired enough--and it's still a commercial, not a standard PSA.

I think another important thing is to do some research and figure out which demographics scam victims tend to come from, and market the campaigns with more emphasis towards those groups. I would guess maybe poorer people, less educated people, people who spend less time on the Internet--but I don't really know. If any such demographics exist, though, an extra effort needs to be made to reach them specifically.

If it were up to me, there'd even be a scam awareness raising campaign for high schools. We got the standard cyber-safety stuff about predators, but I don't believe we were told about email fraud. After all, high school students generally wouldn't be conducting business deals with African millionaires, and in their later years they wouldn't be educated on them!

Here's another idea: What about sending emails to as many internet guestbook owners as possible, suggesting they put in a message at the top about 419 fraud and how to spot it? If they don't, we could start putting in our own little warning messages about fraudsters in our spam-catching comments. (I think most scammers use automated programs to harvest email addresses anyway, so it probably wouldn't affect their usability for our baiting. It would make baiters easier to spot for those who looked, though.)

DungDigger also had a good idea--a viral ad. Scambaiters have produced some minor memes before (the P-P-P-Powerbook saga, NN's fabulous superlad comic) and more is always merrier. Of course, some ads could also attempt to simply raise awareness of just avoiding scams, rather than baiting them.

I'll admit I'm not very knowledeable on the best way to go about raising awareness about stuff, but I'm pretty sure that if more people are told, more people will know. I've told all my friends and family about scams. I haven't met anyone who didn't already know about them, but it never hurts. I also plan to put together a letter about 419 fraud and start sending it to people. I got the idea a few months ago, and it was wrong of me to put it off. I'm not too sure about who to send it to yet, but the more people the better. I think other people should do the same, and go further to try to think of other strategies beyond what I've mentioned.

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Whitetail
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:41 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The super bowl is just too ambitious.

Why not during a hi-rating program? Like American Idol or similar? It would be cheaper.

There is always youtube as well.
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JonesJohn
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
There is always youtube as well


That would be at least a lot cheaper + you could definately reach a lot of people.

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Snowy_owl
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, if we were to make a viral ad, would anyone here be able/willing to make it?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^ Willing but not able. Up for scriptwriting duty if required, and the more the merrier.

What's the most memorable viral ad people here have seen? Let's find out how that was made ..

* Twitter is a good resource too, for dedicated Twitterers.

* And one of those "pass this on" emails - but in a good way. We could all do one of those and just start sending it out with a suitable subject line to people we know.

* Using the FB link here on Eater

* Add scamwarners to our email addies

* Links to Eater and scamwarners on our websites

* Articles for our local papers / national newspapers

* Get the OK to put notices up in Job Centres, Silver Surfer classes, libraries, schools .. wherever it' could be useful

Heck, there are so many things we can do on the small scale - which when they add up begin to get large scale.

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Last edited by DungDigger on Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:49 pm; edited 3 times in total
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bill2
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Benefits not just for the individuals, but for the economy, businesses, and the government.


Is there really a benefit for the economy? They tend to spend their money on US goods and cars, it's doing well for their economy, that's for sure.
Businesses can make it a write off or have insurance for it (theft) and as we all know the government is really interested!
Money Gram and Western Union make lots of money knowing that part is from fraud, if they really take $200 mil from the states per year than you can calculate their profit.

Would it not be better to start at the roots and find a few senators/politicians that are interested in helping to change the laws around it? Give it some (free) publicity.

Just another way to approach the same problem, no attack on anyone and yes I'm willing to lose my hobby over it Wink

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:27 am Reply with quoteBack to top

To answer Mega Bandit, the thing they were running looked more
like a PSA than an ad.But yeah it didn't run enough or reach far and wide enough. It could have mentioned 419 by name. (or number).

I know. Isn't it ridiculous that kids are warned of predators online
but not scammers. Any way to have influence on the curriculum
of the schools ? Warned about drugs, and smoking and Aids and
STD's, everything else under the sun that's illegal or immoral or fattening
but not about Internet scammers. Hmmmm anyway looks like
folks are weighing in and people have got the gears turning in their heads thinking. And I thought this thread might be a bust after the OP.


Keep those good ideas coming....

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