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 I am a money mule baiting the scammer - advice?

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stolen.the
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Posts: 4


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

First time posting on forum.

A few months ago I got a standard mule letter "job opportunity work form home!" I didn't know anything about baiting at the time, but I knew it was a scam albeit I didn't know what kind. So I responded for fun. A couple days later he sent me $120 via western union. I thought this was a "test" as I had not considered the mule setup. I forwarded the money - wasn't costing me anything right?

Well I quickly figured out what was going on and figured I would redeem myself by scamming the scammer. I found this forum as well as other sites... Every transaction he has given me since then I have successfully thwarted. Here is how.

I am in contact nearly every day with the scammer, when he has a new transaction he sends me the name and address and western union number of the person sending me(the mule) money. I then use reverse address, white pages, facebook, neighbor look-up, and any other resource I have available to get a hold of the innocent person.

Once I have contacted the innocent I tell them to cancel the transaction NOW and to send one last email to the lad with some story "hotmail sent me a message that your email is a scam email" "western union called" "I changed my mind."

Now the innocent has their money back and the scammer believes they screwed up somehow, but don't consider the problem is their mule.

I have also had packages shipped to me purchased with stolen credit cards. When I get them I contact the company that shipped them and inform them of the circumstances. So far every company has been very gracious and thankful and has also taken care of the return shipping.

I have come up with different excuses for why the packages never arrived or why I never sent the "money I received at the pawn shop."

So far I have thwarted 8-9 western union transactions and sent back 11-12 packages.

He'll catch on soon I'm sure, but in the mean time I have saved American consumers and businesses $5-6K and kept it out of scammer's pockets.


I realize this is borderline since I am getting so involved and real money is getting thrown around. I couldn't find any other posts on this forum with similar circumstances.

Your thoughts/advice forum?
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Happy_Slacker
419Eater is my life


Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 291
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Your intentions were of course good, but I am also unsure either since this is kinda murky for me to judge. I hope a more experienced baiter/mod will offer some more insight and even advice.

All I can say now is that if the mule did get their money back, then I think the communications with this scammer should cease immediately, because he has your address and the mule's address. This can be potentially dangerous.

-edit

Oh, and welcome to 419eater, please read all the stickies on baiting, and consider getting a mentor.

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Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi stolen.the

Your immediate course of action should be to go to your local police station and tell them what is happening. Although your intentions are good, if you are receiving stolen credit cards, you could get into a lot of trouble. You need to head off any misunderstanding that could arise, immediately.
Take copies of all email correspondence with the scammer along with you.

Secondly, you need to cease all contact with this scammer right away. Again, although your intentions are good, you are not trained or legally qualified to deal with this sort of thing.
Not only that, but with the scammer having your real details, it simply isn't safe to carry on with what you're doing. True, the danger is minimal, but it's not worth risking your well-being in this case.

As 419eater is primarily a scam-baiting site, if you have any other questions, can I direct you here: www.scamwarners.com

Scamwarners is our sister site and you will get better advice over there than you would here.

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Safari Jolly Roger Mortar Closed lad accounts Cellphone United Kingdom

God will see you true for all this you have done to me you bastard. - Collins Kalu
MAY THE HAND THAT TYPE ON KEYBORD BECOME STRICKEN AND TRANSMIT VIRUS TO YOU ENTIRE BODY. - Dr Linda Akeem
oh what a mess its time cabbage punks like u will be expose for trully what they are. - David Cole
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stolen.the
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Posts: 4


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Maybe I misunderstand. I though scam baiting is the art of feigning interest in a fraudulent scheme in order to manipulate a scammer.

I am feigning interest in order for the scammer to give me the information of the scammed so I can give the scammed their money/items back.

I understand that I could be liable for any UNRETURNED items or if I actually withdrew the money, but as long as I am sending businesses their items back and telling individuals to cancel their transactions - I think I am in the clear.


Also, I have not been doing this long, but one of the first thing I learned is that the local police can do very little when it comes to 419 scams.



Slightlyoutofit wrote:
Hi stolen.the

Your immediate course of action should be to go to your local police station and tell them what is happening. Although your intentions are good, if you are receiving stolen credit cards, you could get into a lot of trouble. You need to head off any misunderstanding that could arise, immediately.
Take copies of all email correspondence with the scammer along with you.

Secondly, you need to cease all contact with this scammer right away. Again, although your intentions are good, you are not trained or legally qualified to deal with this sort of thing.
Not only that, but with the scammer having your real details, it simply isn't safe to carry on with what you're doing. True, the danger is minimal, but it's not worth risking your well-being in this case.
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Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

stolen.the wrote:

Also, I have not been doing this long, but one of the first thing I learned is that the local police can do very little when it comes to 419 scams.


No.
But they can arrest you for muling which is a distinct possibility if you keep on with what you are doing.

stolen.the wrote:
Maybe I misunderstand. I though scam baiting is the art of feigning interest in a fraudulent scheme in order to manipulate a scammer


It is. But what we do here bears no relation whatsoever to what you are doing. We work within certain parameters that safeguard us legally and from any retribution from the criminals we deal with.

_________________
Star pony pony pony Nurse Nastys Audi TT Purple Flower Whip
Safari Jolly Roger Mortar Closed lad accounts Cellphone United Kingdom

God will see you true for all this you have done to me you bastard. - Collins Kalu
MAY THE HAND THAT TYPE ON KEYBORD BECOME STRICKEN AND TRANSMIT VIRUS TO YOU ENTIRE BODY. - Dr Linda Akeem
oh what a mess its time cabbage punks like u will be expose for trully what they are. - David Cole

Last edited by Slightlyoutofit on Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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manbiteslion
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Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 4816
Location: Connecting my chair and keyboard


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Heya, it looks like you're really well intentioned, but it makes me slightly nervous...

Your scammer is a real criminal, and has your real-life contact details. It's an Eater no-no, we're extremely cautious here to protect the safety of our members over above every other factor. Whilst it's unlikely your real criminal scammer will come after you, it's safer to drop them entirely.

You're right to a degree about the local police, but SOOI is thinking in your best interests - he wants you to cover your backside in case anyone complains to their local fuzz and your name is connected with fraudulent transactions. He's suggesting you pro-actively tell the police and drop the scammer. Then by all means come back here and learn to bait safely! We're just concerned for you, and want to make you as safe as possible Smile

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Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

All the cops needed was for this person to receive and sign for one package:

http://www.saveholly.com/

She had no ill intentions whatsoever yet was made to do jail time before she was cleared.

_________________
Star pony pony pony Nurse Nastys Audi TT Purple Flower Whip
Safari Jolly Roger Mortar Closed lad accounts Cellphone United Kingdom

God will see you true for all this you have done to me you bastard. - Collins Kalu
MAY THE HAND THAT TYPE ON KEYBORD BECOME STRICKEN AND TRANSMIT VIRUS TO YOU ENTIRE BODY. - Dr Linda Akeem
oh what a mess its time cabbage punks like u will be expose for trully what they are. - David Cole

Last edited by Slightlyoutofit on Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stolen.the
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Posts: 4


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Also - to be clear I am not receiving stolen credit card info or making purchases myself. The scammer orders the goods with the stolen info and has the items shipped to me. I never see the credit card info - I simply inform the company that shipped the items. The company then takes care of getting the merchandice back and notifying the customer & credit card company.




Slightlyoutofit wrote:
Hi stolen.the

Your immediate course of action should be to go to your local police station and tell them what is happening. Although your intentions are good, if you are receiving stolen credit cards, you could get into a lot of trouble. You need to head off any misunderstanding that could arise, immediately.
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Taj Mahal
419Eater is my life


Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 279


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You've received a lot of good advice from a bunch of experienced baiters but continue to defend your practices. Like others have said, your heart's in the right place. But what you are doing is illegal. Good luck to you.

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Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You don't seem to understand - you are receiving stolen goods.

If the police get hold of your name and address and arrest you, you are going to be guilty until proven innocent. You will have to prove that you are acting without malicious intent as all they will see is the evidence of a crime.


http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Receiving+Stolen+Property

Quote:
Receiving stolen property is defined by statute in most states. Generally it consists of four elements: (1) the property must be received; (2) it must have been previously stolen; (3) the person receiving the property must know it was stolen; and (4) the receiver must intend to deprive the owner of his or her property.

A person receives stolen property by acquiring or taking manual possession of it. Physical possession, however, is not always required. Under some statutes, it is sufficient if the accused has exercised control over the property. For example, a statute may declare that paying for the property constitutes control, regardless of whether the accused has handled it.

In many jurisdictions a belief that the property is stolen satisfies the knowledge element. It has been held that a mere suspicion does not constitute knowledge. Some statutes provide that a person has knowledge if he knows, or has reason to know, that goods are stolen. Another test is whether a reasonable person would suspect that the property was stolen. Knowledge is commonly proved by the circumstances surrounding the receipt of the property. For example, unexplained possession of goods that were recently stolen raises a presumption that the possessor received them illegally.

In order to be guilty, the receiver must intend to deprive the owner of the property. The crime is committed even if the receiver intends to obtain a reward for returning the property because she has gained a benefit from depriving the owner of possession, even temporarily.


You are guilty of 1, 2 and 3. You may be innocent of 4 but if LE got snotty about it, they could try to push it.
You have put yourself out on a limb and are there to be shot down. It's simply not worth it.

_________________
Star pony pony pony Nurse Nastys Audi TT Purple Flower Whip
Safari Jolly Roger Mortar Closed lad accounts Cellphone United Kingdom

God will see you true for all this you have done to me you bastard. - Collins Kalu
MAY THE HAND THAT TYPE ON KEYBORD BECOME STRICKEN AND TRANSMIT VIRUS TO YOU ENTIRE BODY. - Dr Linda Akeem
oh what a mess its time cabbage punks like u will be expose for trully what they are. - David Cole
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stolen.the
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Posts: 4


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

My safety. I'm curious are there ANY examples of someones safety being compromised in their own country? That is to say - do you know of anyone getting hurt that didn't travel to Nigeria or travel AT ALL - just by being involved?

Also - this site with the pictures/videos/stories is all well and fine - I like it - but can my actions be seen as a step further in the right direction as I am not only wasting their time, but am also saving people real money?

I am interested, because if I pick this up as a real hobby I'm thinking I will set up fake email/names and continue to bait as a mule that gives money back to the rightful owners.
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Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

stolen.the wrote:
My safety. I'm curious are there ANY examples of someones safety being compromised in their own country?


Simple answer - Yes.

Quote:
Also - this site with the pictures/videos/stories is all well and fine - I like it - but can my actions be seen as a step further in the right direction as I am not only wasting their time, but am also saving people real money?


Well thanks for your approval. I'm glad you dropped by to give us the green light.
Although maybe you'd be interested to know that many here work on Victim Sites, liase with LE, actually are LE and have saved literally thousands of victims from losing "real money".
And no. Your actions cannot be seen as a "step further". On the contrary, they could be seen as a step towards a jail cell.

Quote:
I am interested, because if I pick this up as a real hobby I'm thinking I will set up fake email/names and continue to bait as a mule that gives money back to the rightful owners.


Not on this site you won't.


Click.

_________________
Star pony pony pony Nurse Nastys Audi TT Purple Flower Whip
Safari Jolly Roger Mortar Closed lad accounts Cellphone United Kingdom

God will see you true for all this you have done to me you bastard. - Collins Kalu
MAY THE HAND THAT TYPE ON KEYBORD BECOME STRICKEN AND TRANSMIT VIRUS TO YOU ENTIRE BODY. - Dr Linda Akeem
oh what a mess its time cabbage punks like u will be expose for trully what they are. - David Cole
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