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 Scambaiting in Dutch newspaper - Now with full article!!

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Master of Puppets
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

http://www.depers.nl/buitenland/424604/Pak-ze-terug-die-oplichters.html

The article in the paper-version of the newspaper had half the front-page (with just trophy-pictures, and the mention that the article could be read on page 10).
Then the whole of page 10 and 11 was dedicated to the article, with a big block of pictures, and on page 10 some stuff about baiting (with an interview with our dear Ima) and on page 11 something about the report from UltraScan.

I've got the paper with me, I'll try to take some pictures of it when I get home.

ETA: The only thing that bothered me about the article was that they mostly referred to '*DELETED*' (most direct translation I can give) without very explicitly stating that scammers COME FROM ALL COUNTRIES.
ETA2: @NN: You're scammer superhero family was on the front page Wink @Connie: You're church members were in their somewhere as well Wink

ETA3: The article itself: http://members.419eater.com/~master_of_puppet/Pers.pdf
I wanted to upload the whole newspaper, but somehow that generated an error when uploading. I guess there's some sort of file-size-limit for uploads. This pdf contains only the concerning three pages (the frontpage and the two page article itself).

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Last edited by Master of Puppets on Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:59 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Image

Wish I could read Dutch!

It's a pity those "DELETED" folk of UltraScan get mentioned though, unless it's badly! Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Let me 'translate that for you'

Wink

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^ That is a bit rough of a translation, but I suppose you can get the gist. Note, that "scambaiters.com" isn't a real site.

And I wouldn't trust any article that uses "Ima Beaders" as its main source. Wink

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

JMR it is, I'm surprised to see that Google used the N word.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

that word pissed me of also Master. But otherwise it was a good article

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Ima Baeder
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I was/am only able to read the online translator version of the article but did ask about why the N word was showing up when I translated it and stated that it was unacceptable. Camil assured me that it was due to the translator. I assume some of you are able to read the Dutch version, is the "translator issue" not accurate?

@Razor: I wouldn't either. Laughing

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Knid
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes the use of "that" word is disappointing, poor translation or not it stains everything it touches. But my favorite line of the whole thing was in the discussion.

Fairplay7 wrote:
It's like a chimp in your pocket you will exchange with the skin of his banana!


I was intrigued, then nervous, then horrified, then intrigued again. This is the kind of sentence which I'll have to ponder on all day.
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Master of Puppets
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@Knid:
Fairplay7 said:
Quote:

De nigerianen hebben dit soort oplichtingspraktijken al sinds mensenheugenis gedaan. Dat ze het nu nog steeds proberen via allerlei internet sites is, omdat er schijnbaar NOG dommere mensen zijn die hierin trappen! Het is hetzelfde als je bij een chimpansee jouw portemonnee gaat inruilen met de schil van zijn banaan!


Quote:

The nigerians have done these scams since recorded history. That they're trying it now through all kinds of internet sites is because seemingly there even dumbER people who fall for it! It's like trading your wallet with for a chimp's banana skin.


It's not really any wonder that the translator can't produce anything readable out of his post, even in Dutch he hardly makes sense.

@Ima: Camil really used the word 'neger', you can check that for yourself in the Dutch version (ctrl+f should do Wink ). 'neger' can hardly be translated any other way than as '*DELETED*' (negative connotation included)

ETA: Seems I'm not allowed to use that one here, hadn't noticed that before...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I promised photo's, but I can't find the camera right now, I'll upload photo's if I find the camera before that paper is thrown away.

As for the comments on the article, they're starting to deteriorate in a debate on the dutch policy regarding foreigners (they're blaiming non-western foreigners for giving 'De Bijlmer' (a neighbourhood somewhere in the Netherlands) the reputations of THE center of 419-crime in Europe).

ETA: I'll be posting the concerned three pages in the OP in a few moments. I'm getting increasingly pissed off at the guy that wrote this. On the second page of the .pdf in the OP it there are some big letters that are supposed to be a quote of what the interviewed person (Ima) said:
"‘Ik heb wel eens een Afrikaan twee jaar lang aan het lijntje gehouden.’
"I've once kept an AFRICAN on the line for two years"
However, when you read the text, you'll come across the same quote, though slightly different:
"‘Ik heb wel eens iemand twee jaar lang aan het lijntje gehouden. "
"I've once kept SOMEONE on the line for two years"
I think that's a rather odd way to twist a quote, and not odd in an acceptable way either.

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Knid
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks MoP, that does make more sense. Euphemisms don't translate well. And thanks for sharing the article.
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Master of Puppets
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@Knid: No problem, happy to share Very Happy
That Fairplay7-guy is becoming a real pain in the ass over there. He's discussing with one or two other members, and he's mostly the guy pointing the finger at non-western foreigners (not only for scamming either).

There's something about the article that makes me rather uncomfortable as well. It's not really about scammers (dutch: 419-oplichters, I admit that doesn't read as nicely) as much as 'africans' or 'nigerians'



ETA: I think the amount percentage of posts in this topic that belong to me are a nice indication of my frustration. I have half a mind to send them an e-mail, any suggestions?

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Ima Baeder
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:46 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

MOP: Thank you for your point about the N word. For my own information, could it also mean "Negro"? (still not a great word).

I'm sorry you're so angered by this and while you're certainly free to email whomever you want to, I'd like to make a few points:

I obviously didn't state that I baited an African for two years but the fact of the matter is that that lad is African and Camil may have asked where the lad was, I really can't remember.

Rover and I had a draft of this text before the article went out and it was okayed by us.

In the beginning of the article, Camil writes that "especially Africans are indeed caught". He's referring to the trophy pictures and he is indeed accurate. Yes, there are plenty of non-scamming Nigerians and I'm quick to point that to anyone who indicates otherwise. There are also scammers all over the world. However, it's not inaccurate to state that a large number of the scammers we end up baiting here are West African . . . even the check scammers in Toronto.

I don't think the overall tone of the article is racist. There may be a focus of "Nigerian Scammers" but that will happen a lot in the main stream. Heck, it happens all of the time with members here.

Additionally, realize that when you do an interview, the journalist will write with their own agenda. Our choice is to then not do interviews, or do them with the goal of helping to spread the word and accept that often the articles aren't written exactly as we would like.
I chose to do the interview.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^"I obviously didn't state that I baited an African for two years but the fact of the matter is that that lad is African and Camil may have asked where the lad was, I really can't remember. "

I know that Wink I also understand all of your other points, but it still doesn't feel right. I probably won't write any e-mails, even though part of me wants to.

'Neger' can also mean 'Negro' (according to google as well). Not being a native speaker, '*DELETED*' and 'Negro' don't really sound all that different to me... But I may be wrong.

ETA: I'm not really angry either, I've just got a talent to get wound up about something and then wind up myself some more Wink

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I am honored that one of my trophies was published. Too bad my lass could not copy my text onto her sign. I wonder how many readers got the misogynistic sexual reference in my pastor's name.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

No need to quote the post right above yours -- JMR

Well don't worry about that, I think GOLF tag SIERRA PAPA OSCAR TANGO is also well known in the Netherlands Wink

OT: I also think it doesn't matter how the words are dictated in the article. It is very good that there is a article and more and more people are warned.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:13 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^I think they'll get the fact that that is the pastor's name, I'm not so sure whether they'll get the more subtle meaning of the the complete text on the sign.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

As Dutch is my second language, i could read it and i'm not really happy with it. The article is a bit "suggestief" (i'm not sure suggestive is the right translation) to make the article spectacular. Real objective articles are hard to find these days. For example, the article begins with stating that only dumb people fall for internet scams. That will be something that will get stuck in the mind of the readers. And there's nothing about making people aware of the different types of scams. Romance scams aren't even mentioned. There's nothing about what people should do with these scam emails or phishing attempts. There's no warning not to send money to someone you only know of the internet, and never send a scan of ID over the internet. The article is more like: if you get one of those scam emails it's fun to play games with them. I can imagine lots of smart ass amateur baiters sending their scanned ID to baiters, or doing even worse things.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think it's a great article about the noble art. Very Happy

@Vampire: the article is about scambaiting rather than creating awareness. Nevertheless reading the article does create awareness with the readers, and by reading the fun part it helps people to recognize dodgy emails. Also scamwarners.com is mentioned by our random, yet lovely mod, and romance scams are (be it briefly) mentioned:

Quote:
U weet wel, die mailtjes dat u een erfenis van een verre oom krijgt of de loterij hebt gewonnen. Die vrouw die uw gezelschap wil en de man die u 30 procent biedt als u miljoenen helpt wegsluizen


The bold part would translate as: 'The woman that seeks your company' as one out of four examples of scam email types. (inheritance, lottery, romance, and white washing/transferring millions)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^
I agree with you, Dutch.
There is a article, and we should be happy about that. I almost never see something about these scammers in any Dutch newspaper. I doubt if the article would help for people who already are "hooked" by a scammer. But it will definably warn "possible" victims. I just think baiters here will have a different point of view when reading the article then without any knowledge of the subject.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you, Dutch, and to those of the rest of you who have made nice comments. To those of you who have an issue with the article:

It does mention killing fake sites.
It does mention a few different types of scams.
It does mention a quote from someone else interviewed that victims should not be considered greedy or stupid because the scams can be sophisticated (I mentioned the same thing).
It does mention ScamWarners and that while baiting can be humorous, the problem with internet scams is a serious one.

Not every article about Scambaiting needs to have a ton of information explaining out the scams the way ScamWarners does. Ease up a bit and give the journalist (and interviewee Wink ) a bit of credit for having done this story in the first place.

As Nero said:

Quote:
There is a article, and we should be happy about that


I am. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^Absolutely.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Great job, Ima! bow_down

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes. Nice read, Ima. Thumbs up
That should cause some new visitors.



About the thing with the word and all:

"En dan krijg je dus negers met bordjes met gekke teksten zoals ‘100% risk free’" would best translate to "And that when you get black guys holding silly signs like '100% rik free'"
Not the nicest sentence in the article but not offending either. The sentence right before it roughly says "..we get them to do these things because we get them to believe that it is the only way to the money."
As a certified mind reader, I think the journalist was impressed by the 'this is all daily routine'-vibe he got from Ima, and some of the style / tone is an (possibly subconscious) attempt to either get that across or hide his awe in the story through faux nonchalance.
Nothing to worry about. Again, it is not offending.

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