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 BE AWARE OF NEW SCAMMER - Mikel Ellies

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hoxy77
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 8


PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:53 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I had been approached by Mikel Ellies in the end of April. He claims from United Kingdom, had own art gallary shop(I asked me about famouse artists - Picasso,Marc Chagall etc. but he did not know about them at all) , alfold london, 42 years old, [email protected], phone number 447035975925 Home number - 447011591652, home address - .14 church street alfold london,UK zipcode li710 box 1139. I tried to search google map about his address but I could not find. I am not good at searching address. Anyway he got an accident on 15 May 2009, Newcastle city. Dr. lews gabriel ([email protected] - I could not remeber exactly) contacted me and emailed me reagarding the hospital bill - $1,000.00 because Mikel Ellies put my name as his wife on his cell phone contact list. I thought his phone was stolen because it is impossible for doctors to contact family or relative on his behalf in my country. I tried to call him but another young doctor asnwered. His brother(Mesi [email protected]/he is a doctor but he is in India now due to study medical school. 33 years old) and brother's wife(Kate [email protected]/her parents live in U.S./ pregnant due date is next Jan or Feb.) start asking me to help finance as deposit of bill hopstal - $7,500 but they did not ask me how much I need to support. I told them that I sent you $50.00. They gave me information - Kate Ellies - 56 Woodway Lane Coventry, United Kingdom; however, they did not collect $50.00. They asked me to send money $1345.00. I thought they were scammer, I shut down from them. then, Mikel called me on 20 June 2009. I was very surprised to receive a call from him because I thought he was scammer and he did not call me anymore. We chatted once a week. He did not ask anything regarding money but he started asking me to wire transfer - $800.00 in end of August 2009.
Mikel Ellies <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear XXXXXX my love
how are you doing today,i really miss you since i have been in this hospital in i have not head from you i really miss you please do call me,i was Kate that gave me your new email adress.l i have be trying your line ever since it use tospeak japanese so do call me, i still love you or are you angry that i will be spending six month in the hospital, dont worry i will be fine ok i know really,lreally miss me ok i love you XXXXX.Kate brought her laptop for me in the hospital so can now write you mail. i tpld Kate to print your picture for me so all night i use to place it in my cheast all day. ilove you

your future husband
Mikel
please i want to hear your sweet voice again my love tyou call my tonight
i will stay awake okay my love
+44 7035 97 59 25

hello XXXXX
i just want to tell you that my insurance company told me that they will pay for my lost money on or before 30th of setember 3oth, i was so happy.but i will have to open another account so they can wire the money in.before that day i know i will able to open another account,i block the first one because of my lost credit card,
please my love i do a song for you,im will like to sing it to your hearing,when we talk on phone again.when i chatted withj you this morning i told the nurse to remove the drug that will not make me to sleep beacause of you my love. i love you please call to listern to the song for about 11;50pm or 12;15am. to hear the song.
i love you


IP Address;
From Mikel Ellies Mon Jul 6 19:55:07 2009
X-Apparently-To: [email protected] via 124.147.38.19; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:01:48 +0900
X-YahooFilteredBulk: 67.195.14.64
X-Originating-IP: [67.195.14.64]
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Received-SPF: none (web112201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com: domain of [email protected] does not designate permitted sender hosts)
Authentication-Results: mta330.mail.ogk.yahoo.co.jp from=yahoo.com; domainkeys=pass (ok)
Received: from 67.195.14.64 (HELO web112201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (67.195.14.64)
by mta330.mail.ogk.yahoo.co.jp with SMTP; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:01:48 +0900
Received: (qmail 11825 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jul 2009 10:55:07 -0000
snipped for blowout. TS
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
X-YMail-OSGDE84fO8VM1lEnNGoUbv9uOzOKdjDGy
Received: from [41.204.224.12] by web112201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:55:07 PDT
X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/5.4.17 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 03:55:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mikel Ellies <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Miss You
To: =?utf-8?B?5LiJ5rWmIOOBi+OBmuOBvw==?= <[email protected]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary='0-920711863-1246877707=:10966'
Content-Length: 1843

He also asked me about invitation letter because one of his friends lives in Africa, his son want to attend our wedding. He needs inviation letter from embassy. I told them that people who are in African need to get visa and then enter my country. But he kept asking about this. This eamil is his friend's information.

MY Beloved wife XXXX
country=Nigeria
state=Edo state of Nigeria
Country Code or zip codes=+234
Name =Ada Eboiegbe
Address=4b 3rd Izuwa lane off new lagos road new Benin,Benin city.Edo state
phone number=+2348056164109
Age=28
Gender=male


love that is the information you need,please i will be online on tuesday next week make sure you request for the invitation letter before we chat again ok . I love you my love you do sleep well ok
Mrs carolina send her greetings to you. i told her about your birthday and she said she will prepare the birthday cake here in newcastle so we celibrate it with you her ok
dear do take care of yourself for me ok

your husband mike Ellies

From Mikel Ellies Thu Jul 30 19:32:46 2009
X-Apparently-To: [email protected] via 124.147.38.18; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:32:48 +0900
X-Originating-IP: [98.137.26.132]
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Received-SPF: none (web112304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com: domain of [email protected] does not designate permitted sender hosts)
Authentication-Results: mta128.mail.tnz.yahoo.co.jp from=yahoo.com; domainkeys=pass (ok)


Received: from 98.137.26.132 (HELO web112304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.137.26.132)
by mta128.mail.tnz.yahoo.co.jp with SMTP; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:32:47 +0900
Received: (qmail 16243 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jul 2009 10:32:46 -0000
h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject: To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type;
b=XjSaCD5qlhF/ /AH1E4tvoVGMTqnqnwCbRg9+X+L8w043B1wZX/hdfZnJjjkMYolGjhossyGr6BrPIYhyGRvgkgBTyjOhSe8Em1
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
X-YMail-OSG: BzGymFoVM1nV3jTzgU9WkR1k_coFW2.JS6My01IxYR12UUj6k4MB.
Received: from [41.204.224.17] by web112304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 03:32:46 PDT
X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.0.19 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 03:32:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mikel Ellies <[email protected]>
Subject: THE INFORMATIONS YOU NEED
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary='0-552370048-1248949966=:15862'
Content-Length: 2185


Does anyone know him?
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Murry Guru
Baiting Guru


Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 5561
Location: Turned into Ralph


PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:55 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Huxy

Welcome to the Romance department

While I dont know this scammer, google does Wink Click Here

I think I would like to get to know him better, I will check my schedule Wink

please feel free to ask if you have any questions and please do call in at www.scamwarners.com where we concentrate of victims, warnings, education and scammer profiles.

ETA
I have begun a profile on this scammer at Scamwarners here http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3777

Adding again
I have just fired off an email to our 'friend' which has bounced , it seems somebody has reported the email address which will reduce the effectiveness of any reports.

That said, the reports may still save a victim here and there.


I would like to get my hands on any working email addresses he has as well as pictures and early emails if I can.

If you do have anything for me, please sent a mail to Ralph over there who can give you an addy to send me what we need to protect others from this scammer

_________________
"I want to hold your hand and let you scream at me while you bring our child into this world"- Linda Lopez
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Ivana
Master of Master Baiters


Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 852
Location: Beautiful Hot Springs


PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Good Scammer reporting -- Go get him Murry Twisted Evil

_________________
Pith Helmet x2 Lagos - Cont, Benin "i really waste my money,time,effort,energy" - j.m. (w/OD)
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spent a night in jail for "wondering aimlessly"in benin city - Kelvin

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Murry Guru
Baiting Guru


Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 5561
Location: Turned into Ralph


PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:25 am Reply with quoteBack to top

For the benefit of anybody playing along at home, The OP also posted here http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=172693

Hoxy, I have had a look through the details and would like you to confirm the email address for Kate, it appears to me that may be an ITP, could you please verify it and provide any further information

Thanks

_________________
"I want to hold your hand and let you scream at me while you bring our child into this world"- Linda Lopez
Safari Bait with Frumpy on the hitman "i though we are partners in this and now u turn around to stub me on the back"
Click to learn how to romance bait Click to get your name in mugu gold
Got info on a scam vic? PM a mod Recieved a scam warning? Say "thank you, I am a baiter"
Ruin your pets day, post their details at scamwarners
Nurse Nastys Audi TT <- I run like a girl
Mortar x12 Closed lad accounts ? not enough Twisted Evil
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hoxy77
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 8


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:21 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Kate email address is [email protected]
Mesi(Mikel's brothre) - [email protected]

Mod edit - x'd out address until it can be confirmed this is actually a scammer. - JF
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Murry Guru
Baiting Guru


Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 5561
Location: Turned into Ralph


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks Hoxy

That is the email address I tried and it led to details that appeared it may be a real person.

Could you pleas eedit it back out of your post until we can confirm it is a scammer.

I am also interested in any of the early emails you received, the email addresses have all beeen closed so they are useless to us, I am hoping the emails will lead to some email addresses we can actually use.

_________________
"I want to hold your hand and let you scream at me while you bring our child into this world"- Linda Lopez
Safari Bait with Frumpy on the hitman "i though we are partners in this and now u turn around to stub me on the back"
Click to learn how to romance bait Click to get your name in mugu gold
Got info on a scam vic? PM a mod Recieved a scam warning? Say "thank you, I am a baiter"
Ruin your pets day, post their details at scamwarners
Nurse Nastys Audi TT <- I run like a girl
Mortar x12 Closed lad accounts ? not enough Twisted Evil
Goat Goat <- this one belongs to Ralph.
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hoxy77
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 8


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:11 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you for your help. They seem to be a real person but I feel stronlgy they are scammers. Mikel Ellies tried to call me two times by cell phone - these numbers were Nigerian numbers. I was not familiar with scammers or Nigerian scammers at all at the time but later I noticed these numbers were Nigerian. I did not remember these numbers. They work 4 people at least. I talked to fake docotrs - Lewis Gaberial and young docotrs on the phone, their English was terrible, I could not understand thier saying. Sometimes I was wondering Mikel understood my saying or not. He seemed not to get it what I talked.

I also sent email to hospital. Please read this;
Dear Sir and Madam,

I am XXXX XXXXfrom XXXXX. I am looking for my friend. He is supposed to be in your hospital. His name is Mikel Ellies, Man, 42 years old, 25 August 1965(his birthday), he is from Alfold, London. He got accident on 15 May 2009. He will have been in your hospital by November 2009.

Is Mikel Ellies in your hospital?


Sincerely yours,
XXXXX XXXXXX

Email from The Newcastle Nuffield Hospital;


Dear XXXXX XXXXX

I am sorry in this instance I am unable to help you because of patient confidentiality ruling. I am not allowed to give out information on our patients

If your friend was in an accident I can say we do not offer emergency treatment here at The Newcastle Nuffield Hospital.


Yours sincerely

This IP address;
From [email protected] Thu Aug 20 22:06:51 2009
X-Apparently-To: [email protected] via 124.147.38.15; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:06:56 +0900
X-Originating-IP: [85.158.140.195]
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Received-SPF: none (mail193.messagelabs.com: domain of [email protected] does not designate permitted sender hosts)
Authentication-Results: mta155.mail.kcd.yahoo.co.jp from=nuffieldhealth.com; domainkeys=neutral (no sig)
Received: from 85.158.140.195 (EHLO mail193.messagelabs.com) (85.158.140.195)
by mta155.mail.kcd.yahoo.com. with SMTP; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:06:55 +0900
X-VirusChecked: Checked
X-Env-Sender: [email protected]
X-Msg-Ref: server-7.tower-193.messagelabs.com!1250773611!22845600!2
X-StarScan-Version: 6.1.3; banners=nuffieldhealth.com,-,-
X-Originating-IP: [212.46.129.25]
Received: (qmail 32697 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2009 13:06:52 -0000
Received: from nfw3-ext25.network-i.net (HELO keys.nuffieldhealth.com) (212.46.129.25)
by server-7.tower-193.messagelabs.com with AES128-SHA encrypted SMTP; 20 Aug 2009 13:06:52 -0000
Received: from dc2pexc002p.nuffieldhealth.com ([10.225.26.3])
by keys.nuffieldhealth.com (PGP Universal service);
Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:06:52 +0100
X-PGP-Universal: processed;
by keys.nuffieldhealth.com on Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:06:52 +0100
Received: from nufsnewcastle.nuffieldhospitals.org.uk ([10.21.2.5]) by dc2pexc002p.nuffieldhealth.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830);
Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:06:51 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Subject: Response to your enquiry
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:06:51 +0100
Message-ID: <[email protected]itals.org.uk>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: Response to your enquiry
Thread-Index: AcohlxbBjmfVx4fGRUeQBZq3u0TdMw==
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Return-Path: [email protected]
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2009 13:06:51.0890 (UTC) FILETIME=[158E3520:01CA2197]
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA2197.154347BA"
Content-Length: 9487

I also posted this story on another site - romance scam but noboy encounter this scammer.
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Murry Guru
Baiting Guru


Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 5561
Location: Turned into Ralph


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:05 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The email above appears to actually be from the hospital so it is of little use to us.

What I need is the early emails from the scammer.

Scammers will reuse their early emails over and over again so by searching on parts of them we may be able to find more information.

From what you have told us, I agree, it looks like you have been dealing with a scammer but I am unsure about the email address for Kate that you posted as a search on that comes up and there is no proof that it is a scam.

_________________
"I want to hold your hand and let you scream at me while you bring our child into this world"- Linda Lopez
Safari Bait with Frumpy on the hitman "i though we are partners in this and now u turn around to stub me on the back"
Click to learn how to romance bait Click to get your name in mugu gold
Got info on a scam vic? PM a mod Recieved a scam warning? Say "thank you, I am a baiter"
Ruin your pets day, post their details at scamwarners
Nurse Nastys Audi TT <- I run like a girl
Mortar x12 Closed lad accounts ? not enough Twisted Evil
Goat Goat <- this one belongs to Ralph.
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hoxy77
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 8


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:31 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I do not have his early emails anymore due to termination of all my yahoo.com accounts because I found out he was a scammer.

Actually, it does not hit Kate and Mesi's email address on Internet. In the beginning, I could not find and there was no proof that Mikel Ellies was a scammer. I posted my story on another site but nobody knows or encounter this scammer. I believe he is a new scammer. Kate and Mesi might not be a real person but I am sure they do not exist. Also I believe not many people meet him but a few people had been involved by this scammers.

I do not want enybody to be involved by this scammer.
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Murry Guru
Baiting Guru


Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 5561
Location: Turned into Ralph


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Our intention is to make the scammer's life as hard as possible and try to prevent others from being scammed by him.

The best way to do this is to post as much detail as we can about his scam.

In this case, as his email accounts are closed, the scammer will already have a new lot of addresses to use that I would like to be able to find, unfortunately its like a needle in a hay stack trying to find anything based on what we have to go on here.

Reporting scammers email addresses for closure, despite what we are told by yahoo and other "official" departments, is counter productive, I would even go as far as to say it helps the scammer and here we see that at work.

We have nothing that brings up search results and teh scammer now has a new email address that we cant post which makes his scam imposible to find.

I should also point out, the other people he introduced you to are more than likely him as well and if not part of teh same group of scammers.

The only lead I have to follow is that Kate email address which seems to have brought me to a dead end.

If you do find anything, please post it as the smallest detail may be what leads us to him.

Meanwhile, these 2 links may help you

Firstly, general advice on how to spot a Romance scammer http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3607

Next is a link that will explain how to stay safe when posting but also explains the kind of information that will help us. http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3561

Could you also please edit out Kate's email address until we can prove that email address is connected to a scam

_________________
"I want to hold your hand and let you scream at me while you bring our child into this world"- Linda Lopez
Safari Bait with Frumpy on the hitman "i though we are partners in this and now u turn around to stub me on the back"
Click to learn how to romance bait Click to get your name in mugu gold
Got info on a scam vic? PM a mod Recieved a scam warning? Say "thank you, I am a baiter"
Ruin your pets day, post their details at scamwarners
Nurse Nastys Audi TT <- I run like a girl
Mortar x12 Closed lad accounts ? not enough Twisted Evil
Goat Goat <- this one belongs to Ralph.
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shadowwolfsupra
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 1


PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I was also targeted by this same IP adress........ except that this person is now acting as if they are a female by the name of Sarah Wilson. She wrote to me in a message on okcupid.com and when I went to reply, the profile was deleted and all I had was an email adress in a message that was left in my inbox. I did my own personal research before I came to this site and found allot of dirt on this person. this is what they wrote (including all the email info too that lead me to the dirt):

Flag this messageLittle about me And my Picture'sMonday, October 12, 2009 3:25 AM
From Serah Wilson Mon Oct 12 07:25:47 2009
X-Apparently-To: via 76.13.9.93; Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:25:53 -0700
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
X-YahooFilteredBulk: 98.137.26.132
X-YMailISG:
X-Originating-IP: [98.137.26.132]
Authentication-Results: mta169.mail.re2.yahoo.com from=yahoo.com; domainkeys=pass (ok); from=yahoo.com; dkim=pass (ok)
Received: from 98.137.26.132 (HELO web112304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (98.137.26.132) by mta169.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:25:53 -0700
Received: (qmail 78234 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Oct 2009 07:25:47 -0000
[i]Snipped for blowout. TS

Message-ID: <[email protected]>
X-YMail-OSG:
Received: from [172.190.20.105] by web112304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:25:47 PDT
X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.3
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:25:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: This sender is DomainKeys verified Serah Wilson <[email protected]> Add sender to Contacts
Subject: Little about me And my Picture's
To: personal information snipped -ghost
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-844453962-1255332347=:78089"
Content-Length: 341033

Message contains attachments4 Files (247KB) | Download AllSarah1.jpgSarah2.jpgSarah3.jpgSarah4.jpgNo virus threat detectedFile: attachments_2009_10_17.zipDownload File
Compact Headers
Thanks for taking your time respond back to me i really do appreciate that so much and you really do sound so creative in a man! this just a little about me My name..Sarah..and i am just as simple as u want...i would like you to write to me and tell me all about yourself as i would do too if u so wish..well i am a mixed, African and America born in American but raised in the states...i lost my dad when i was 5 years old and that is when we moved to the Nigeria with and my mum later moved back to Africa I am with her right now...i Born in West beach FL but currently out of the states currently in Africa visiting my sick mum and My school for Professional Nurse {hope you are not discouraged} but i will be back in the states as soon as she get better."[email protected]" email address you can mail me through.....i am online right now and if u use the yahoo messenger u could add me or IM me! so we can have a chat and get to know one another more better.....Thanks for being patient enough to read ......I'll be expecting Ur response and i will also send you pictures of me too....Hope to talk to you soon!!!

Sarah....[/i]

anyway, I hope this helps allot for all of us that I brought this fresh information on this. since I found this forum today and found this on my search for the dirt, now I will be here more often to keep tabs on anything suspicious online. now I hope that this info will be useful Smile
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Titania
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Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 2442
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hello, shadowwolfsupra, and welcome to the Eater. Very Happy I'm glad you checked things out before being drawn in to a scam.

Thank you for posting that information. Every bit we get will help keep others from being scammed.

_________________
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hoxy77
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 8


PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I was very surprised to receive email from scammers yesterday. Mesi sent email to my cell phone. It was amazing! I thought the problem was over in August but they do not give up on me yet. They still pretend to be real person. Please read this.

hello XXXXX
it has been a long time i talk to you ,
i am very ,very sory for that it is because of my study here so tell me how is my
brother how have u be doing i hope to see you people soon for the exmas holiday i will be celibrating it in uk.
say hi to my brother mikel
i love you all


your Mesi


Mesi claimed to go to university in Idia. Mikel and Mesi are same person because his sentences are same grammer and writing. This email is from [email protected]. I did not have IP address because this email was sent my cell phone(I do not know how to find IP address in my cell phone).
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hoxy77
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Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 8


PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:59 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I got phone call from Miekl Ellies yesterday(30 Nov 09). Actually, he called me on 26 Nov 09 and called 6 times on 28 Nov 09. He still tried to be real person! I am so tired of this scammer. I told him at the end of August - you were scammer. He replied he insulted me.

Please be careful for this scammer.
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bethc8
Master Baiter


Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Posts: 128


PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

He claims to be in the UK, and then he tries to hit you up for a medical bill?
I was thinking that the UK has socialised medicine? So then why would he have medical bills?? Other than to get you to send funds?? He sure writes like a scammer!! His grammar and spelling are poor.. But don't tell him that!!
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