Africa wants polluters to pay for climate change

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Master of Master Baiters Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 571

it's ok everyone

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:37 am

luckey wrote:

If not with SUVs, then at least with a nice little nuclear winter.

Fry: This snow is beautiful. I'm glad global warming never happened.
Leela: Actually, it did. But thank God nuclear winter canceled it out.

-Futurama

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:42 am

Just think about this... in several hundred years we burned the coal and oil accumulated in millions of years.
The oil is almost finished. There are large reserves of methane left. But think at the ecological price.
It's not worth it.
If we keep going on, there will be no more Vanuatu or Maldives or many other tropical reefs.
And I'll have to wear a bedouin attire and buy camels.

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:09 am

Kabuto Sama wrote:

Just think about this...

Yep. I think we all have. This isn't the first time I've woken up and been concerned. There was even a documentary made about it.

Let's hope the alternative fuels, recycling, technology, common sense and all of us doing our part will be able to reduce the damage that's been done.

You're concerns are real and valid, but nothing shocking or new.

Our fate isn't determined, so hopefully the aliens that left us here come back to give us a helping hand and guide us into the future.

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:24 am

Let me say that I have no opinion on Global Warming, because I don't know all the facts about it. Sure, I've heard arguments on both sides, but I don't know if those are facts, or just opinions.

So I'll just offer this, because it's made me laugh for years.
The Planet is Fine!

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:53 pm

^^^Amen!

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:39 pm

Ah, George Carlin. Never fails to amuse.

So, to the mods, I can only imagine that the goat in my sig has something to do with this thread, hmm?

Baiting Guru Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 3123

Ha! So if I DID in fact start arguing my point, I'd get a goat too? Crying or Very sad

NN told me not to. Evil or Very Mad

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:36 am

Now it's global cooling. Shocked

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/globalwarming/6300329/Sceptics-welcome-BBC-report-on-global-cooling.html

Funny - in either event - taxes will be put up.

Baiting Guru Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 3123

Quote:

It is a surprise – a welcome one - that the BBC has put it as bluntly as they have. More often than not they (the BBC) put forward the brainwashing views of CO2-driven, man-made climate change.

Totally, 100% agree. Thanks Gomer. You've just made my day. Very Happy

Not quite a Newb Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 29

So a weatherman for hire says it's all a hoax. Well, yeah, I guess that obliterates tens of thousands of scientific studies. Boy do I feel silly now!

As for the rest of the article. It's all about time scales. Just as the fact that there have been ice ages in the past doesn't mean that the change we are seeing now isn't caused by human activities, periods of cooling don't mean that the GLOBAL AVERAGE TEMPERATURE isn't increasing. Climate scientists know all about the PDO and other oscillations and cycles. Still, the world is warming at an unprecedentedly rapid pace.

Has anyone else noticed how those who accept that global warming is occurring cite extensive studies carried out over years and years in a multitude of scientific fields, while those who don't want to believe it cite whomever they can dig up whose willing to say it's wrong.

If you judged any of these skeptics by the standards Nick applies to the IPCC (there's an article saying not every scientist involved read every word therefore it's all lies!) you wouldn't believe a guy like Corbyn for a second. But, clearly, skeptics have only one standard by which they judge spokespeople on climate change: does s/he agree with me?

You might say those who accept the facts do the same, but they do not. Fortunately, the scientific process allows for the consideration of data and interpretations of data that are outside the current view. That's what fuels progress. Unfortunately, it's also what allows idiots like Corbyn to get press -- by taking honest debate and turning it into "see, this one fact might possibly imply something else therefore it's all a hoax!"

But I'll stop now. Clearly, you do not want facts or to evaluate the source of statements. You merely want what you believe to be true to be true and you will go on believing it despite any evidence to the contrary. Like Stephen Colbert might say, "you believe in a truth that goes beyond facts." And if someone isn't willing to evaluate evidence, judge facts, evaluate sources, and think about their position, then there's no point in presenting them with data. If you want to say that 2+2=5, no amount of information is going to get you to change your mind. Sad but true.

Baiting Guru Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 3123

REMOVED - I'VE NEARLY BROKEN MY PACT.

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:58 am

I'm all for Global Warming.
We had a crappy summer here so a bit of sunshine won't go amiss.
And if Irish ends up sinking into the sea, tell me, who's gonna cry?

As for the actual topic of this thread? Who cares? You and I won't get a say in wether Africa gets any cash anyway. They're always asking for money and they get it or are refused it, regardless of what the public in the donating countries think. Unless you personally donate through individual charities you have no choice in the matter. And why worry about what you've no control over?
If it wasn't pollution, they'd have their hands out for another reason. It's just the way things are.
The bottom line is that it takes two to tango - sometimes the West screws up badly and has to pay a few bucks in compensation (and rightly so) and sometimes Africa tries it's luck trying to get cash from the richer parts of the world.
Swings and roundabouts.

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:01 pm

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:31 pm

It's logical and obvious that the most green thing you can do is not reproduce. With less people demanding less consumption, energy demand falls and there is less production that causes pollution.

This is not a popular reality for people, governments or business to face.

Facing reality is not just a problem for those who deny climate change but it's obvious that if people reduce demand for consumption, but just replace that with more people, you've got nowhere.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 29

Craig007 wrote:

The same applies to yourself. You attack the subject with such ferocity, nothing will sway you.

Wrong.

If you presented credible scientific evidence that proved that either the earth is not warming or that humans are not responsible, I would reconsider my position.

A few articles by skeptics saying "these scientists are wrong" is not credible scientific evidence. Saying gravity doesn't exist isn't evidence that it doesn't.

If you have evidence that genuinely refutes the conclusions of the IPCC report, I'd love to see it. As, I'm sure, would Al Gore and a few billion other folks.

Quote:

Whenever I get my hands on some polystyrene, I burn it in my back yard, just for fun. I hope I makeup for what the liberals have taken away.

Might I suggest starting a factory to produce plastics and then burning them for energy? That should really grow some hair on your chest.

Quote:

It's the moral priniciple I standup for.

What moral principle is that? The principle of being unwilling to listen to reason? The principle of being unable to consider that your actions have impacts on others? The principle of being as wasteful as humanly possible for no reason whatsoever?

Slightlyoutofit wrote:

I'm all for Global Warming.
We had a crappy summer here so a bit of sunshine won't go amiss.

Sorry Squirrel, but due to ocean circulation patterns, your part of the world may be in line to become colder, not warmer, as the planet heats up.

Quote:

You and I won't get a say in wether Africa gets any cash anyway. . . Unless you personally donate through individual charities you have no choice in the matter.

Agreed! And if you have some cash to spare and want to control where it goes, might I suggest you throw it to the good people at Link snipped. 7/9. They are a microlending group that allows you to make small loans to entrepreneurs in tough economic circumstances the world over. Check it out.

Baiting Guru Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 3123

Quote:

REMOVED - I'VE NEARLY BROKEN MY PACT.

I've had enough of this. There is no way I will rise to these blatant insults.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 29

Whether or not you are a prick is indeed a matter of OPINION. Whether or not the earth is warming is a matter of fact. Scientific, testable, verifiable fact. It doesn't stop being true because you don't believe in it any more than your plane will crash to the ground if you stop believing in aerodynamics.

As for the old "I paid for it therefore I can do what I want" trope. The true "cost" of your vehicle goes well beyond the money you paid for it. The true cost of your wastefulness goes well beyond your own backyard.

As for you being an adult. I find it quite interesting to read that statement at the beginning of a paragraph in which you express a guiding moral principal of doing what you want when you want because you want with no regard to anyone else. I hope I'm not the only one who appreciates the irony.

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:53 pm

I find it hard to change peoples´ behaviour by purely demanding to. There must be something to offer, too.
Give all West Africa fast broadband access but have them prosecute scammers. Ship containers of free computers over there but demand their local governments to work with the donators against online fraud.
Oh well maybe I am too blonde. I shouldn´t have read this thread anyway. The only on-topic thing I know is, better let it be a give-and-take rather than a demand-with-loud-words. It usually makes the conservatives welcome these subjects like oysters Wink

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:03 pm

Sorry, I've been reading this and trying to figure out exactly what is suppose to be new or shocking about this revelation of Global Warming. I'm also trying to figure out how a discussion on a internet forum is going to solve the problem, let alone solved by individuals who get on soapboxes to ram a few subject matter facts and heated opinions will somehow endear others to that opinion.

This is going nowhere fast. If you're ultra concerned about saving the planet, turn off your computer and save some power.

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:07 pm

Craig, I appreciate your willingness to withdraw from a heated discussion that will not likely result in anything but animosity between other members. However, by removing your post, Magnolia's post now looks like an unprovoked attack on you. I don't believe that was the case.

In general, when participating in a discussion like this, lets either discuss it rationally and with mutual respect, or find another outlet. Provocative comments and insults will only get topics locked, and perhaps force us to make the policy against discussing volatile issues such as politics and religion much broader. That would be unfortunate since we have so many members who are articulate and knowledgeable.

Some baiters seem to thrive on conflict. If you have that trait, and that's all you are getting out of participating in a discussion like this, take a step back.

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