This is obviously a scam, any suggestions?

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 10

I was trying to sell a guitar via Facebook Marketplace, when I was contacted by someone, and I'll post what the dialogue was (but changing my name and address for security reasons). I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions:

Tammi Lee
Today at 3:15am
Report Message
PLEASE REPLY ME BACK TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS:
[email protected]

Hello,

i am interested in purchasing your item with no delay,but first? What is the final price of the item? Is the price firm? Will you be accepting a US certified Check or money order Contact me with the present state of the item and your contact information to mail out the payment to you as soon as
possible. Name you want on check:
Home Address:
City:
State:
Zip code:
Country:
Phone Number/Office Number:

PLEASE REPLY ME BACK TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS:
[email protected]

Ryan Johnson
Today at 3:22am
I am sending this to both your facebook account and the email address you provided:

The price is pretty final at $299, as I have looked around online, and it is retailing for 400$ and tends to sell used at 300$ or more. Not to mention, the guitar itself is still it very new condition.
I prefer Paypal for transactions as it tends to be the safest way to go.
Would you like me to email you pictures of the guitar itself?

Thanks,

Ryan

Tammi Lee
Today at 3:26am
Report Message
am okay with the price of the item,so i will pay $350 for the item,so kindly provide your name and address,and your phone number,so get back to me with your name and address to issued out the check.

you can mail to my private email address:[email protected]

Ryan Johnson
Today at 3:30am
Ok. Although I have to warn you, if you choose not to do this through Paypal, I will have to wait for the check to clear before I send the guitar.

Ryan Johnson, 1234 Smith Way, San Diego CA 90001, 858 *** ****

If you are willing to do it via Paypal, as it is much safer for both the buyer and seller, my Paypal email is *******@hotmail.com

Tammi Lee
Today at 3:31am
Report Message
money order or confirm cashier check will be send to you,so the check will be send to you soonest.the check will be include with the cost of the shipper on the check.

Ryan Johnson
Today at 3:34am
Ok then, make sure to include an address so I can ship the guitar. Do you have an approximation as to when the check/money order would arrive?

Tammi Lee
Today at 3:36am
Report Message
as soon as send out the check,i will let you know,ok.all is well.

Ryan Johnson
Today at 3:37am
Thank you

Tammi Lee
Today at 3:40am
Report Message
ok,all is well.i have arrange with the private shipping company to come for the pickup of the item,ok.all is well.

Ryan Johnson
Today at 3:46am
Like I said, since you do not want to use paypal, unfortunately I cannot ship or allow the guitar to be shipped until the check/money order clears the bank.

Tammi Lee
Today at 3:49am
Report Message
ok,the check is confirm money order or cashier check will be send to you soonest.

Ryan Johnson
Today at 3:50am
Ok, thank you.

Tammi Lee
Today at 3:51am
Report Message
don't border to shipped the item,so i have arrange for the shipping company to come for the pickup of the item

Ryan Johnson
Today at 3:51am
Ok, as long as they come to pick it up after the check clears that's fine.

Tammi Lee
Today at 3:55am
Report Message
ok,all is well.

After all this, their facebook no longer exists. Also, I got a bit worried about putting my own address, and sent an email to them:

I am sorry, by mistake I gave you an old address. I thought that I still had family there, but apparently I don't have anyone there anymore. My current address is 5500 Campanile Drive, San Diego, CA 92182. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Ryan

That address is a local university, so I figured there wasn't much risk there. So yea, any suggestions would be appreciated.

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:45 pm

I don't think you have anything to worry about. Check scammers are out for a quick score, and they won't waste much time on someone who hasn't wired them money. They will assume the vic wised up and move on.

Because this scammer has your contact information, I wouldn't bother trying to continue this as a bait. Yes, they are most likely thousands of miles away from you and odds are nothing will happen to you, but it really isn't worth any risk.

If you do want to try your hand at baiting this scammer, sign up for a safe email account like gmail and send a message like "I haven't heard back from you, are you still interested in purchasing the table?". These guys answer tons of adds and often they have no idea what it is they are supposed to be buying, or who they have contacted. Chances are, they will answer you.

One final point, the reason these scams tend to be effective is that most people don't fully understand what it means when a check clears the bank. In the US, and in many other countries, banks are required to give depositors access to their funds within a few days. This does not mean the bank will take responsibility for the check when it is returned. That process can take weeks or months before a clearing house or the issuing bank discovers the check is fraudulent. When that happens, the depositor is held responsible, regardless of the origin of the check.

Welcome aboard! Very Happy

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 10

Alright, thanks for the help. I was a little sketched out at first, but wanted to sell my guitar, so I that's why I made the mistake of giving any personal information.
I've read quite a few stories about scam baiting, so I'll definitely see what I can do in my spare time.
Also, if they do still send a check to my original address, I'll take it either to police or ask the bank to look into it, but I won't deposit it.
Thanks again.

419Eater is my life Joined: 30 May 2009 Posts: 298

luckey wrote:

One final point, the reason these scams tend to be effective is that most people don't fully understand what it means when a check clears the bank. In the US, and in many other countries, banks are required to give depositors access to their funds within a few days. This does not mean the bank will take responsibility for the check when it is returned. That process can take weeks or months before a clearing house or the issuing bank discovers the check is fraudulent. When that happens, the depositor is held responsible, regardless of the origin of the check.

I keep wondering why the banking laws haven't been amended to close this loophole.

What I really can't figure out though, is why the depositor is punished just because the bank funded a phony check. This sounds like the bank screwed up.

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:11 pm

^^It's an important convenience. If everyone were denied access to their money until a check can be fully verified, imagine the cash flow problems people and businesses would have. Given that the overwhelming majority of checks are legit, the system works fairly well.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 10

Just an update:
They replied to me with this -
Hello,

Thanks for your response and concerned,ok.i just want to let you know that i will mail the check to you today via UPS SERVICES,ok.so you will received the check soonest.so the check i send to you is include the shipping company money as soon as you received it you will get it cash and deduct your money,ok.so you will send the rest of the money to the shipping company information attached with the check through western union money transfer.so the shipping company will come for the pickup of your item and other items that i have already bought down in Ohio and Texas,ok.i hope you understand this now.so get back to me.all is well.

So yea... The Western Union bit is super obvious at this point, but I guess I just shouldn't reply, right?

419Eater is my life Joined: 30 May 2009 Posts: 298

If I were in your shoes, I'd just act belligerent, and ask some really obvious questions and make angry statements like...

"No. I won't use your shipping company. I'll use the US Postal Service."

"No. I won't use Western Union. I'll send a personal check."

"How do I know your check isn't fake?"

Or a simple "You are scamming me."

I know the mantra is "He knows your real name and address, don't bait." Which is pretty sound advice, but I can't see a lot of harm in just being a resistant mark who after a week of back and forth exchange, doesn't pony up one dime of Western Union money. It's not like you're sending him to Chad or fleecing him for $700 or something.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 10

I replied with this for now:
"Is it possible to send it via USPS? UPS tends to have problems delivering on my campus. Also, which shipping company are you using?"

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:16 pm

RayAdverb wrote:

...but I can't see a lot of harm in just being a resistant mark ...

Because quite simply, when you bait or play around with a lad and get them mad enough to send you a lively death threat, it is all part of what we cherish and love, knowing we can sleep well at night because the scammer has no clue who we are or where we are at. Because we bait safe, they have no links to our real identity.

However, if a scammer has any of your RL info and you piss him off enough that you get some clever threats, it might make you a tad bit more uncomfortable knowing he DOES know where you live or your real name. And maybe you don't worry to much about yourself, but what about when they threaten your family?

And yes, the chances are slim that a scammer will ever show up on your door. But do you know that for sure? Do you know for sure they don't have friends in your part of the world?

Why take any chances? If you want to play with scammers, then the only way to do it is to bait safe.

QuiteObvious, our best advice will always be to drop the scammer. Just ignore the rest of his emails or send him one last one saying you found a local buyer.

And welcome to Eater! Very Happy

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 10

Alright, works for me. Thanks.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 10

He's replied since then:
Hello,

Thanks for your response and concerned towards this transaction.I just want to inform you that you will receive the payment for your item by today.Once you have received the payment in the mail,you will get the payment cashed and you will deduct the sum of your item and the extra $50 am adding for you in this transaction.You will send the rest of the money to the shipping information i will be providing for you now via western union money transfer .Once you have send the funds to them,you will get back to me with this necessary information you have used to send the funds to them,such information like
This is the ACCOUNTANCY GENERAL INFORMATION of the shipping company where you will be sending the funds to via WESTERN UNION MONEY TRANSFER.

Peggy Hamby
Lula, GA 30554
United State

You will get back to me with this wiring information as soon as you have send the funds to them,such information like

1,MTCN CONTROL NUMBER (10 DIGIT NUMBER)

2,EXACT AMOUNT SEND AFTER WESTERN UNION CHARGE,S

3,SENDERS NAME AND ADDRESS

4,EXACT ADDRESS FOR THE PICKUP OF THE ITEM.

I WILL BE VERY GLAD TO READ FROM YOU TODAY AS SOON AS YOU HAVE RECEIVED THE PAYMENT IN THE MAIL AND COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION TODAY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE,SO THAT THE PICKUP CAN COMMENCE ON SATURDAY.THIS IS UPS TRACKING NUMBER FOR THE PAYMENT:J215 319 4002.I COUNT ON YOU IN THIS TRANSACTION

He also sent me another email telling me where nearby Western Union outlets are.

Anyways, I'm going to attempt to cut contact, and tell him the deal is off, but I dunno what any of you can do with that information he provided. It may be helpful to bait him in the future.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 10

Btw, here is my reply, hopefully he'll leave me alone now:

I appreciate your understanding so far. But unfortunately I have some bad news. The guitar is really my dad's and he wanted me to sell it for him, but apparently he already found a local buyer and had sold it without my knowledge. I'm sorry for the inconvenience, but don't worry, your check will not be cashed, so you have nothing to worry about. It has been a pleasure doing business with you, and I'm sorry it did not work out.

Ryan

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:56 pm

This sounds like a similar situation to mine. I advertised a car for sale, got lots of emails from scammers. Most of them left me alone but one was real persistent so I gave him a false address to send the cheque to. But because he has my RL name (he may not be aware of that fact) I figured it was best to drop him.

Then I discovered the sport of scambaiting. I told the lads who were pestering me that the car was sold. I have now set up a load of fake personae and I sent those lads emails like 'Are you still looking to buy a car?! and LO! they come crawling back out the woodwork.

I have now re-advertised the car but using one of my baiting email addresses.

Let the fun commence!

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:09 pm

This could be a victim or a mule for the scammer. I am going to pass this on to a scam warner and have her notified. Very Happy

QuiteObvious wrote:

Peggy Hamby
Lula, GA 30554
United State

Not quite a Newb Joined: 22 Jul 2009 Posts: 42

I do like you reply, one of those "to dumb to fake things." (Real life is stranger than fiction, don't get the wrong idea, not calling your reply "dumb".) After all, you weren't on a bait, weren't behaving strangely, just an ordinary guy trying to sell a guitar.

I'd definitely relist it, but a use a baiting account, maybe take a different pic though...play dumb if the scammer pops up again, hey you got me confused with someone else...it is still your right to sell the item!

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 10

Alright, oh, and he replied. I've been out for the day, and he apparently did not like the email silence, as I got 3 more emails from him:
"PLEASE HELP ME OUT‏
Hello,
i'm reputable person,so i have being in this transaction over 5year without any problem on my neck,so i believe we can do business together with you,so please i count on you,so since your dad want to sell the item locally,so i want you to do me a favor,so i want to cash the check,so deduct $200 for yourself,so the rest of the money should wire via western union to the shippers.please help me out .

This is the ACCOUNTANCY GENERAL INFORMATION of the shipping company where you will be sending the funds to via WESTERN UNION MONEY TRANSFER.

Peggy Hamby
Lula, GA 30554
United State

You will get back to me with this wiring information as soon as you have send the funds to them,such information like

1,MTCN CONTROL NUMBER (10 DIGIT NUMBER)

2,EXACT AMOUNT SEND AFTER WESTERN UNION CHARGE,S

3,SENDERS NAME AND ADDRESS"

And the second one about 30 min later:
"PLEASE I COUNT ON YOU,SO MAKE SURE YOU GET IT DONE TODAY,OK.ALL IS WELL."

And the third one, about 4-5 hours later:
"WHY SILENCED SINCE ALL THIS WHILE???????????????MAKE SURE YOU COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION TODAY‏
why silenced since i didn't hear anything from you again,so what is going on,so i want you to call the ups services to delivered the check for you today,so i need your respond towards to this transaction.so get back to me as soon as possible.make sure you complete the transaction today,ok.all is well.how is the condition of the item now.stay bless"

He actually tried calling me earlier today, but he had what sounded like a VERY heavy European accent, and I could barely understand anything he said, something about UPS. Anyways, it sounds like he shipped something to a local university and is expecting me to somehow deal with it. At this point I think I'll just start ignoring the emails and not replying at all.

Good idea McBait, I'll consider that. And I also didn't use any actual pictures of the guitar, just stock photos. So I can probably just do that again.

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:04 pm

QuiteObvious wrote:

At this point I think I'll just start ignoring the emails and not replying at all.

That's the best bet for now, QO. And your scammer is just a bit annoyed cause he thinks you are stealing his money. Just leave him wondering what the hell happened. Very Happy

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 27 Jul 2009 Posts: 3

Cool thread! Just what I was looking for....

Bear with me. I'm new to deciphering schemes and need help. Smile

If I read this thread correctly, the lad is paying $51 over QO's asking price, off the bat. I don't understand where that came from, unless there was missing correspondence regarding shipping fees (makes sense).

Since the lad was probably not going to have the guitar picked up (??), was "he" actually trying to work a $50 scam, here, or am I missing something?

I recently received a very similar scam email, as QO's, but the lad jumped straight to his guy picking up my for sale item (a motorcycle) after his CC or MO check had cashed. Again, assuming a guy was never to show up after I cashed his check, how was he going to get over on me? Perhaps more correspondence besides "bring cash" was needed.

I hope this not considered a hijack, and thanks for having me. Thanks for the thread, QO.

Back to setting up a Gmail account.

JDB

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 10

No worries, yea, I wasn't trying to bait this guy, so I'm not sure how much the UPS thing cost him, but at least he paid something out of pocket. He sent it to the wrong address anyways, so I won't be cashing it, of course it would later bounce anyways. And yea, there was no missing correspondence, the guy just offered to pay $350 after I only asked for $299, saying something about a private shipping company, so that was a nice clue, lol.

I've been floating around the 419eater forums, and if I had to guess, the guy will probably send you too much or something, and ask for you to transfer some back, or something like that. I'm sure someone with more experience than me would probably have more insight.

And JB, if it's up to me, you can continue on this thread with how yours goes, but then again, I don't think it's up to me Razz

Yeah, both the reason I posted here and kept correspondence with that lad for a bit was just out of curiosity to see how he'd be making his money. As soon as he talked about sending more money, and having me send it back (with his shipper or Western Union or w/e), it was "quite obvious", so that's all I cared about. But I may soon try my hand at baiting if I find some time for it.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 27 Jul 2009 Posts: 3

QO:

Cool, thanks for the clarification on the extra dinero.

I'm going to re-list my bike and add my new Gmail account, just for fun. I'm guessing "Bob Manuel Haule" will be back in contact with me. I've got another one to work with, as well.

Thanks!

JDB

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:14 am

QO and Bitterman--just so you realize, he is probably not out any money, as the lads generally send checks using stolen credit cards or phished UPS/fedex accounts. However, another fake check is out of the hands of a victim, and that is a good thing.

As far as the new motorcycle lad goes--the scam works a few different ways, all of which are intended to leave your money in the lad's pocket, and sometimes your item with the lad. I doubt he is expecting to receive the motorcycle, though--usually when they are after the item, it is smaller electronics.

The standard scenarios:
-The check is for over cost, and his guy is going to pick up, but you have to WU the delivery money to his guy in advance before he comes for pickup (most likely)
-The check is for cost or over cost, but immediately after you receive and deposit it, lad has a ghastly accident/family crisis, blah, blah, blah... and a motorcycle is no longer feasible. He wants the money refunded, though he is generous enough to offer to let you keep a small fee for your trouble.
-The lad pays with a stolen credit card
-The lad pays with a stolen paypal account
-lad "pays" using paypal or bank transfer, and he sends you a fake confirmation page showing payment, then quickly and aggressively pushes for shipping money/item/refund depending on which he is after. If he wants the item (most likely to happen with small, high-value electronics), the fake page will most likely reference escrow and say that the transfer will be complete once the item has shipped.

In all cases, the lad needs you to send the money or item before you realize the check or payment is fake, so he will be very aggressive in response to any stalling.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 10

JDB: Toldya someone more knowledgeable would have more insight than me :-p

Thanks Dorothy, I'll keep that stuff in mind for the future too, especially in case some friends or family come across some scams as well.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 27 Jul 2009 Posts: 3

QO:

Lol! Yep, you nailed it!

Dorothy:

Awesome info. I greatly appreciate it! They are such simple scams, but I'm guessing highly effective.

Back to seeing what's up with my lad.

JDB

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 28 Jul 2009 Posts: 4

I would actually bet that the check was for more than the $350 he talked about. I saw an in depth story on this a month or two ago. He sends you a check for, say $2000. You charge him $350 for the item but you "refund" the balance ($2000-$350=$1650). Of coarse, you make sure that the money has cleared *your* bank. A while later, the bank (your bank) sends you a nasty letter telling you that you deposited a forged check and they take the $2000 back out of your account.

Not only are you out $1650, you may also go into an overdraft situation when they pluck that money out of your account.

If you look in one of the emails he/she sent you, he says cash the check and send me the money --- Keep $200 for your trouble. Who in their right mind would pay someone $200 to cash a check. Unfortunately, people fall for this all of the time.

--edit
Yep... It was for more than $350:

Quote:

Thanks for your response and concerned towards this transaction.I just want to inform you that you will receive the payment for your item by today.Once you have received the payment in the mail,you will get the payment cashed and you will deduct the sum of your item and the extra $50 am adding for you in this transaction.You will send the rest of the money to the shipping information i will be providing for you now via western union money transfer .Once you have send the funds to them,you will get back to me with this necessary information you have used to send the funds to them,such information like
This is the ACCOUNTANCY GENERAL INFORMATION of the shipping company where you will be sending the funds to via WESTERN UNION MONEY TRANSFER.

Notice it says to deduct the price of your item PLUS the additional $50 and send the REST back...

I believe this was the story I saw on Dateline (the video has to be out there somewhere but I have no idea where it would be):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29903354
--
(not) Jerry

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 11 Aug 2009 Posts: 1

QuiteObvious wrote:

He's replied since then:
Hello,

Thanks for your response and concerned towards this transaction.I just want to inform you that you will receive the payment for your item by today.Once you have received the payment in the mail,you will get the payment cashed and you will deduct the sum of your item and the extra $50 am adding for you in this transaction.You will send the rest of the money to the shipping information i will be providing for you now via western union money transfer .Once you have send the funds to them,you will get back to me with this necessary information you have used to send the funds to them,such information like
This is the ACCOUNTANCY GENERAL INFORMATION of the shipping company where you will be sending the funds to via WESTERN UNION MONEY TRANSFER.

Peggy Hamby
Lula, GA 30554
United State

Wow, I got the same exact thing happen to me just this weekend. Facebook account by the name of Albert Sean. I was trying to sell a spanish book for $20, and he/she sends me a check for a little under $2000. So shady. Even got a call from the Shipper with the thick accent.
Also, the Peggy Hamby email, just like yours.

I told him that im sure the bank would find it suspicious for a broke college student like myself to suddenly deposit and withdraw 2000 from some odd check in less than 24 hrs. I plan to ignore for now, and I'm guessing i'll be getting the annoying emails and calls with the urgency, bribery, and bad english. Yay.

Somebody needs to find these A-Holes and punish them for this.

This is obviously a scam, any suggestions?	View next topic View previous topic