US vs UK drinking culture?

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Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:53 pm

How is the young persons beer drinking scene across the pound? Over here everyone in the UK lives for the weekend, especially the younger people as it means a free for all 48hr drinking marathon. Towns by day are filled with shoppers and then night time it is transformed in to a sea of drunk people drinking as much as they possibly can as it is so cheap to get drunk with countless bars and clubs trying to pull people in with cheap offers on beer and spirits.

There are countless arguments in the streets, sexual assaults, fights, and general yobish behaviour. In 2008 it cost the NHS the following:

£1 billion spent on treating people in hospital due to alcohol
£372 million on ambulance journeys
£646 million on A&E visits.

There are a few adverts that we have been seeing of late. I think it's a bit of a shame that we're having to actually tell people in the form of adverts that drinking to much is a bad thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VmILmUWpic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDTtDWRdtQ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ISgu3etXMU

Something that has recently come about is

Quote:

Drinkers will be forced to form a Post Office-style queue at bars selling cheap alcohol, under tough new measures to combat a massive spike in drink-fuelled violence.

The scheme is designed to bring order to bars offering two-for-one drinks promotions and 'all you can drink' for a set entry fee.

It will mean drinkers have to join an orderly single-file queue, lined by barriers.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1205479/Drinkers-forced-wait-Post-Office-style-queue-crackdown-bars-selling-cheap-alcohol.html#ixzz0Np6k9nSC

Is it anything like this in the States?

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:13 am

it cost me ~£100 to clean the vomit off my door every year.
-i live next to a public house.

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:39 am

drew.p.coque wrote:

it cost me ~£100 to clean the vomit off my door every year.
-i live next to a public house.

you should visit the loo before returning home Wink

Baiting Guru Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 3123

Its a disgusting culture here. I drink alcohol because it TASTES nice. Not because it gets you drunk. I enjoy alcohol for its effect on the palate, not the brain.

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:10 pm

I much prefer the US "bar" culture over the UK pub one.

The only thing that puts me off slightly is the US ability to carry weapons in some states.
I keep referring back to my UK experiences where if we had guns and went to pubs, there would probably be massacres on a daily basis.

The problem is that the big breweries and the govt (through taxation) don't give a crap about the consumer as long as they're making money. That helps to fuel binge drinking and that leads onto other problems.

Culturally, something has to give in the UK. I hope it's sooner rather than later.

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:15 pm

Would raising the legal drinking age help any?

Other European countries don't seem to have such an issue. Perhaps you should only be allowed to purchase and consume alcohol if you have an IQ over 120.

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:25 pm

The big supermarkets selling their own brand beer cheaper than the bottled water have a lot to answer for, heathwise, law and order wise, and for the closure of thousands of local pubs.

Unfortunately, teenagers make particularly lousy drunks, I was one once. Now I need enough to drop a horse before I become a nuisance.

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:30 pm

After a bottle of Vodka an IQ of 120 is usually cut by a third.

I have happily been without alcohol for 18 months & 2 weeks. I thought I was much more fun drunk, and I was. I never started a fight drunk, but finished plenty.

The only thing I miss is a Alabama Slammer and playing pool in the states. Such a good and fuzzy memory. US chicks really go for the Australian accent. God Bless America, and all those wonderful boobies. Very Happy

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:32 pm

Ms Mockinatrix wrote:

Would raising the legal drinking age help any?

It might alleviate a small amount of the problems but personally, I doubt it would have much impact.
The attitude to alcohol in the UK needs a total overhaul.

@Roy. Supermarkets aren't responsible for the closure of local pubs. That's purely a whine created by the govt and the breweries to hide the fact that they are the ones who are really to blame.

The Monopolies Commission, the smoking ban, big chains, the paperwork and daft laws that small businesses are hit with and over-taxation are the major culprits. Add to that the attitude of only going after the consumers' cash whilst disregarding all other implications (as I've already pointed out) and cheap supermarket alcohol is the least of the industry's problems.

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:37 pm

I was in a nightclub in Chicago 20 years ago and saw a booze fuelled punch up good enough to grace and UK town on a Saturday night.

I once witnessed a street fight in Scotland that was like something out of a movie.

I am rubbish when I am drunk - doesn't happen much now thankfully!

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:41 pm

The US certainly sees its share of drinking and drunkenness, but it's not as extreme every week as you describe (of course at certain events it may be, like spring break, concerts, and music festivals).

We have had "drink responsibly" statements on alcohol commercials as well as numerous commercials about drunk driving for years.

Drinking age is 21 in general, and while underage kids certainly get their share of alcohol, there aren't as many in bars --the bars and bartenders can be fined heavily and even lose their liquor license for serving them--and ID's are getting harder to fake. Here, bar employees can also be charged with a crime if they serve an obviously drunk patron and he/she later drives drunk--I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but many bar owners and employees do take these risks seriously--and with lack of public transportation in many areas, driving drunk is a serious concern. Many years ago, I worked as a waitress in a bar, and while people certainly got drunk, the bouncer or bartender wouldn't hesitate to cut off the alcohol and/or throw customers out if they started getting out of control. The drink specials, etc. definitely exist here too.

In a lot of college towns, Thursday night is actually the big night for students to hit the bars/clubs/etc. with their college friends. Then on the weekend, they go home or travel somewhere else.

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:47 pm

^^ All of the safeguards you have stated are already in place in the UK and have been for years except for the lower drinking age.
In fact, they are probably more stringent - in the UK a licensee is responsible for a person's actions whilst under the influence even when after that person has left his premises. The councils and the police also have very strong powers and are able to close down a pub or club immediately - they can do so just on the basis of suspicion without any crime even being committed.

It doesn't stop the problems though. It's not down to the individual pubs (and their staff) and other vendors. It's down to the culture, the attitude and the climate created by successive govts and big breweries over the years.

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:49 pm

European week and attitude to drink:

Mon - Sun work proper hours, hopefully with a siesta at lunch, eat out with friends and enjoy a couple of bottles of wine in the evening.

British week and attitude to drink:

Mon - Thurs work stupidly long hours, go home and eat or get take out.
Fri - Sat try and cram as much alcohol into your system as you can, stuff a kebab in your face and hope it soaks up the drink.
Sun - hope the hangover doesn't last all day

I conform to the European attitude, without the friends and the siesta Wink

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:07 pm

@Slightly,

I understand your problem with firearms if your from a firearm free country originally. However, in all states having concealed carry laws bringing a firearm into a drinking "establishment" is FORBIDDEN! Doing so can result in a higher level misdemanor (summary) to felony(indictable) charge on the individual. The only time I have ever heard of carrying a firearm in to an "establishment" is when an undercover officer or agent is required to carry his weapon in the course of his duties.

Other than that, the drinking culture is more affected by locality in the big wide country the the U.S. is. My locale is rumored to have the highest incidences of DUI (Driving Under the Influence) in the U.S. Though I have heard that caviat applied to other locales at the same time as mine. I guess you could take it at face value. I, myself have never trusted anyone's driving ability between the times of 12am - 4am. Chances are they are DUI.

Another factor is age group as well as upbringing. So many variables here!

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:08 pm

i drink port, so to vomit it up is just a waste.

Elite Baiter Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 1407

Badgerbait wrote:

@Slightly,

I understand your problem with firearms if your from a firearm free country originally. However, in [b]all states having concealed carry laws bringing a firearm into a drinking "establishment" is FORBIDDEN![/b] Doing so can result in a higher level misdemanor (summary) to felony(indictable) charge on the individual. The only time I have ever heard of carrying a firearm in to an "establishment" is when an undercover officer or agent is required to carry his weapon in the course of his duties.

Incorrect.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/two-states-legalize-guns-in-bars/

These states allow it. However, they 'forbid' the person with the weapon from drinking.

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:50 pm

I'm in the USofA, I only drink when I'm on this forum and I have a weapon. Laughing

Oh, and I love Jesus! Very Happy

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:12 pm

^^^
My kinda girl Corona! Wink

@ Tastysnack - Wow! That's news! Good to see they are still keeping one or the other out of the equasion, though. Alcohol and Firearms and the wrong person equals a bad night out! Shocked

I wonder the penalties for the barkeep for serving an armed person (though I am sure some unscupulous persons would not tell for fear of completely circumventing the whole concealed carry concept. In that vein, the law only becomes an enhancer unless barkeeps and restauranteers install metal detectors and hire armed bouncers (not common in the northern tier of the U.S. but I have encountered armed, off duty deputies acting a bouncers in the South, left that bar in a hurry!)

Elite Baiter Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 1407

[quote="Badgerbait] I wonder the penalties for the barkeep for serving an armed person (though I am sure some unscupulous persons would not tell for fear of completely circumventing the whole concealed carry concept. [/quote]

I think you are underestimating those that have a conceal carry permit. They require training, in class, a written test, and in some cases a proficency test in firing the weapon.

Those that have applied for the permit, for the most part, are the responsable portion of the gun owing public.

I live in a state where CC isn't allowed so it's not an option for me.

They are not going to put their license in jeopardy for the sake of a beer. That's not to say there wouldn't ever be someone that would, but I see that as an unlikely issue.

What you should fear are those that carry without/license (ie the criminals)!

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:30 pm

Well, who knows what makes the mind connect with things? When I saw the words 'drinking' and 'culture', and reading some posts, I remembered an article by Christopher Hitchens a couple of years ago about his countrymen or (ex), should I say?

Speaking in general terms, Americans really do have a fondness for our friends across the pond and from down under, and are suckers for both of your lovely 'accents' as well Smile

Amusing article.

Of course, this is typical acerbic, tongue and cheek Hitchens:

From: Brits Behaving Badly
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2007/04/brits200704

Quote:

New York's grand British club, the social embassy, is Soho House. Go up to the bar on any Thursday night and see the serried, slouched, braying, bitten-nailed ranks of them, all in need of a toothbrush, a cotton bud, and a dermatologist. Nursing beers and a well-thumbed ragged project.

and on accents:

Quote:

And then there is the air of patronage, combined with an odor of neediness and a thick-skinned, unembarrassable meanness. "Oh God, have you eaten with the Brits here?" a friend asked me. "They'll book a table for six, and then nine of them turn up. Ask for the check and they'll all have to go to the bathroom or smoke a cigarette or make a phone call, and there'll be one guy left at the table. That'll be the D.A.S.—the Designated American Sucker, who through sheer naked embarrassment will pick up the tab, and suddenly they'll all be back at the table, thanking him with their impeccable manners. This will be the only time they've actually spoken to him, because for the rest of the meal they'll be talking about people who they were at school with, who all have the names of small dogs. If there's no D.A.S., they'll hold an auction over who had the steak and two beers. I'm not kidding. You know what gets me? It's not like they're poor. Not really poor, like lots of immigrants. They just think we're lucky to have them. They walk into a room and imagine it just got classier."

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:33 pm

Tastysnack wrote:

They require training, in class, a written test, and in some cases a proficency test in firing the weapon.

That sounds like a typically British response - you have to do a training course, pass an exam, but we aren't really that bothered whether you can hit what you shoot at, just pass the exam, OK?

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:40 pm

@Slightly, I have to agree with you about the state of the UK regards drinking.

No amount of legislation or blame will solve the problem that the moral standards have declined.

I feel this is symptomatic of the problems the whole of civilisation faces, especially in the west. We have become far too worried about fairness (not saying we should not be fair), but we should not not be so accommodating to others at the expense of our own culture. We care more about the human rights of criminals than we do about the victims. we are unable to do anything without the risk of litigation. The ordinary person has no guidance in their lives and no discipline, and no incentive to do the right things. Greed is seen as good, for it brings rewards that are tangible.

We have other cultures that are trying to impose their values, rules and even laws on us, and we are unable to oppose them due to political correctness. No wonder it is becoming "live for today" and "gimme gimme gimme"

I wonder if this was the way the Roman Empire went before its collapse.
Maybe the current civilisation is coming to an end. If it is, it's likely to be a bloody one.

OK! That's my rant over for today.

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:52 pm

So we are turning to a firearms discussion?

Just because they are issued a permit (not all states require what Tastysnack mentions, some only require a background check!) doesn't mean that they are not human. I have dealt with CCW (Concealed Carry of Weapons) permit holders who do not follow the regulations they supposedly subscribed to when applying and receiving their license. I never underestimate another person, it's what gets lads their money (being underestimated, that is). Tastysnack you are right, though, the real problem lies with those who carry without a license contrary to the law. Effectively, they have no rules until they are caught. Usually after the incident has occurred.

As for the barkeep, in the U.S. there is a growing trend toward a lack of responsibility for one's own actions. A need to blame an "enabler" of some type for allowing a person to commit a crime. Soon we will be culpable if we have nice stuff in our houses ("you enticed that burglar!").

I am not saying the barkeep who serves alcohol to the person who the actor in a DUI involving a fatality is not responsible for stopping a person from drink more. I am saying how fine is the grey that we can be an expert on someone else's physiology to determine if they are indeed beyond the ability to drive. If you need to use a car to get to the bar/pub, use a cab or bus or have a Designated Driver. Do not operate a vehicle when imbibing PERIOD!

@Hitch - There does seem to be a gross lack of common courtesy and common sense in the world these days!

Elite Baiter Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 1407

Alan B'Stard wrote:

Tastysnack wrote:

They require training, in class, a written test, and in some cases a proficency test in firing the weapon.

That sounds like a typically British response - you have to do a training course, pass an exam, but we aren't really that bothered whether you can hit what you shoot at, just pass the exam, OK?

You are aware of course that even the police, with high degrees of training have a very low degree of accuracy?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/nyregion/08nypd.html?pagewanted=print

In 2008, NYC officers had an accuracy of 34%. The value of a Conceal Carry License is in it's deterent effect.

Elite Baiter Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 1407

And no, I don't want this to be a firearms topic. I just wanted to point out that some states do allow firearms in places that sell alcohol.

But the patrons that are carrying, are NOT to drink.

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