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 My friend is beeing scammed, please advise

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Corona
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I can't wait to see how this ends. Smile

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Joaquin
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Corona wrote:
I can't wait to see how this ends


Let's just hope we are not in for a never ending drama like the ER TV series ... Where new episodes are being written as we talk ...

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dear sir
after waiting at the airport for 3 hours i did not see you, i was there till the last pilot came out, what is the position , are you in belgium or still in usa pls write me back , am confused - Patrick Williams

you must be a mad man why can,t you understand simple language it your
stupid mother that have head like that of sadam hussien that was hang
may your mouth bend to your back idiot i am helping you and you are talking trash.
francis mensah
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MikeH
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:31 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Joaquin wrote:
Let's just hope we are not in for a never ending drama like the ER TV series ... Where new episodes are being written as we talk ...


That's what bothers me. The last time we went through this, the story changed and evolved as we challenged it, right up until the final "tee-hee, can't you take a joke?" post.

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Joaquin
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

MikeH wrote:
... the story changed and evolved as we challenged it, right up until the final "tee-hee, can't you take a joke?" post.


As I mentioned before, I have a sophisticated gauge that has measured the "levels" involved in this story. And I have also identified the kind of booze being served at this party.

But I will wait until after the much expected Rendezvous date (tomorrow) to fully disclose my findings.

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dear sir
after waiting at the airport for 3 hours i did not see you, i was there till the last pilot came out, what is the position , are you in belgium or still in usa pls write me back , am confused - Patrick Williams

you must be a mad man why can,t you understand simple language it your
stupid mother that have head like that of sadam hussien that was hang
may your mouth bend to your back idiot i am helping you and you are talking trash.
francis mensah
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mrJazz
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, it's kind of hard to post the truth when you're telling me that you don't want "new episodes" to be written. But here goes.

Just spoke with her again on msn. She's still in Porto. It seems she had some problems receiving the document that certifies the money being a gift, and she's working on that today. Will post when she replies again, hopefully later today.

Sorry to let you all down, and having you wait even more for the end of this. I assure you I'm really disappointed by this myself.
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lotta
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

You have not let us down - we're just really concerned for you. Please post more as you have it.

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jlc419
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

MikeH wrote:
Joaquin wrote:
Let's just hope we are not in for a never ending drama like the ER TV series ... Where new episodes are being written as we talk ...


That's what bothers me. The last time we went through this, the story changed and evolved as we challenged it, right up until the final "tee-hee, can't you take a joke?" post.


Well, if it is an attempt at trolling it's done by an amateur with no talent or skill. Any idiot can pick a forum, write something that follows the general discussion, and get people to reply. And while it may provide a brief respite from a lifetime spent in mom's basement, the sad part is it realizes that real trolls look at it like they do someone "trolling" rec.org.mensa; i.e. not a worthy practitioner of teh art.
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luckey
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Can we please stop calling troll? We frequently get victims here seeking advice. It's in no one's interest to create a hostile atmosphere that might make others reluctant to approach us.

If there is a problem here, you can be sure it will become more obvious without intervention. If we are getting a view of a scam in progress through the eyes of a potential victim, it is reasonable to expect some distortion. Let's let it play out.

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mrJazz
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

luckey: Thanks for showing your support.

I feel no need to comment insults or theories about me making this up. I've spent time and energy entering this forum, hearing your thoughts and sharing my own. I probably wouldn't have entered at all if weren't for my friend, and I am glad that I did. I feel much more prepared for anything now, and able to recognize more of the typical signs of this being a scam or something else that could be questionable. But I feel no need entering discussions that don't stick to the point. I only felt like I should respect my friend so much, that when he was convinced of this being a scam, I'd explain the whole situation in the forum, and listen to the thoughts and theories around this that would come up.

I have some thoughts about the personality of this girl. If she is in fact a scammer, she's been doing a really lousy job of convincing me. She's really displaying some major flaws about her own personality that in my opinion isn't something she can use to her advantage. She's presenting herself as an intelligent, independent and reflected person at first. But when I confronted her with the details around the declaration, she took the role of a know-it-all. I guess that's understandable, if she is in fact the daughter of a judge, her brother being a lawyer and herself doing her career in Europe. I guess you can get kind of full of yourself when being that privileged. That being said, she also displays the typical South American inability to being consistent and following up her words. She just didn't understand the importance of informing me about what was happening, and didn't tell me about her not making the flight until the same day I was supposed to travel. Also, the part of her insisting on knowing all she had to do when it came to declaring the money, and being SO well-informed is kind of upsetting, when she shows up today telling me the details around the declaration was a bit more complicated than she thought.

Well, anyway, I guess we all have to wait and see if she gets around to work the details out. If she's "sticking to her story", she'll have to make the travel before the next 14 days are over. She's said to be starting classes again on the 15th of June.

I understand if some of you get tired of this whole story not going anywhere as fast as it was supposed to. But for those of you who manage to stay calm for a little while more, I will tell you how it turns out, in the end.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:57 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks Lucky Wink

My Thoughts exactly

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

<pacing back and forth, and holding my tongue with Luckey and Murray.

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Joaquin
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Luckey wrote:
Can we please stop calling troll? We frequently get victims here seeking advice. It's in no one's interest to create a hostile atmosphere that might make others reluctant to approach us.


Well I do agree that is absolutely true. And we certainly don't want to scare away any real victims.

But on the other side, I don't think 419eater wants to project the impression that any happy old troll can come around with a story full of leaks and have almost 3,000 people read it in 6 days and also get dozens of valued members to invest their precious time and hard earned expertise to help the alleged victim. Or do we?

And based on the latest "turn of events" in this incredible journey, may I ask what is the next step now and whose move is it?

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dear sir
after waiting at the airport for 3 hours i did not see you, i was there till the last pilot came out, what is the position , are you in belgium or still in usa pls write me back , am confused - Patrick Williams

you must be a mad man why can,t you understand simple language it your
stupid mother that have head like that of sadam hussien that was hang
may your mouth bend to your back idiot i am helping you and you are talking trash.
francis mensah
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mrJazz
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I thought I made the next move quite clear. It's really just for her to figure things out and find out when she will make the travel. If she does, that is.

I'm beginning to have my doubts.
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paraguay
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

manbiteslion, probably it's not a "hat game" in English but a "shell game"? Possible? You know 3 bottles, cups, shells, hats - you have to gues where the ball is. (Somewhere it was hat game, but probably in another language. "Huetchenspiel" auf Deutsch, probably? Don't remember, sorry.)

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Joaquin
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mr. Jazz wrote:
I'm beginning to have my doubts.


Well, we do have something in common, finally. You now have doubts. Except that you are beginning to have them. And I've had them from day one. But although the timing and what we are doubting are very different, Welcome to the Club.

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dear sir
after waiting at the airport for 3 hours i did not see you, i was there till the last pilot came out, what is the position , are you in belgium or still in usa pls write me back , am confused - Patrick Williams

you must be a mad man why can,t you understand simple language it your
stupid mother that have head like that of sadam hussien that was hang
may your mouth bend to your back idiot i am helping you and you are talking trash.
francis mensah
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Titania
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Joaquin wrote:
But on the other side, I don't think 419eater wants to project the impression that any happy old troll can come around with a story full of leaks and have almost 3,000 people read it in 6 days and also get dozens of valued members to invest their precious time and hard earned expertise to help the alleged victim. Or do we?


Actually, I'd prefer that impression to the one that we cry "TROLL!" at anyone who posts something that doesn't fit our pre-conceived notion of how a victim "should" or "would" act.

Whatever is going on here, the story is intriguing to say the least.

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Joaquin
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

MSNBC wrote:
June 1: An Air France jet with 228 people on board vanishes from the radar during a flight from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to Paris.


Watch out. It can now turn out that our mysterious Brazilian philanthropist was traveling on that plane.

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dear sir
after waiting at the airport for 3 hours i did not see you, i was there till the last pilot came out, what is the position , are you in belgium or still in usa pls write me back , am confused - Patrick Williams

you must be a mad man why can,t you understand simple language it your
stupid mother that have head like that of sadam hussien that was hang
may your mouth bend to your back idiot i am helping you and you are talking trash.
francis mensah
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manbiteslion
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I don't believe potential victims all react and respond identically, and doing some time with Warners has compounded that. I'd rather we treat people civilly unless they prove otherwise.

I seriously doubt now that she will show - if she's as smart and "I know" as she sounds, surely she'd have sorted the paperwork before the day of travel? Maybe just a hoax/fantasist - please force an email out of her as we do need that IP address.

Paraguay, cool, cheers, I know the playing card equivelent Smile

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mrJazz
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Nope. I spoke with her this morning. She was already in Porto. But for a second I thought that as well when I read the news. Some tragedy, by the way...horrible.
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luckey
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

manbiteslion wrote:
I'd rather we treat people civilly unless they prove otherwise.


That is not a preference. That is a forum requirement, especially in a thread like this.

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Cachuma
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree with Lucky, Murray et al that this is NOT a troll...and those of you who are poking him with the troll stick are not helping the situation. Such behavior could also dissuade other victims from coming forward.

So, setting the troll thing aside...I would like to toss out something a little different here - although I'm a bit surprised nobody else has suggested this.

Mr. Jazz, the bare fact is that this can only be one of two things:

1) She's a scammer, and we just haven't figured out her angle yet
2) She's for real, and really does want to give yuo $30,000.

Let's look at possibility #2. If she's for real, my question to you is: why are you allowing her to do this? What is your true interest in this woman? I understand from the beginnings of this story that this is a potential romance that you've been nurturing online, and when she found out that you were having some financial troubles, she offered this incredibly generous gift. If that's the case, the RIGHT THING for you to do would be to tell her that while the offer is very tempting, you wouldn't feel right accepting that much money from someone you've never met.

If you really are interested in pursuing a relationship with her, it would NOT be right to have her hand you such a large sum of money at your first meeting. The ETHICAL thing to do would be to ask her to put the gift on hold until you meet and determine if there's really a connection there. If you meet, and things move forward, then she can gift you in some far-less-complicated method that doesn't involve declarations and documentation and all that. Hell, she could write you a check! Shocked It might take a while to clear since it's an out-of-country bank, but if the check was good, it would clear eventually. And all this nonsense about carrying cash across international borders would be moot.

So...the question now becomes, are you really only interested in her for her money? If that's the case - if you refuse to ask her to put the gift on hold until you determine if there really is a possibility for a relationship - then the reality is that you are leading this young woman on for the sole purpose of getting a large sum of money out of her. And that makes you no better than any of the romance scammers that we bait.

And if (as is most likely) it turns out to be possibility #1, you will deserve whatever you get. Please know that I'm not saying this to be harsh. I'm just trying to ensure that there are NO victims here, on either side.

Now, let's break it down one more time.

If she's for real, and manages to figure out a way to travel to you with that large bag o' cash, and you go to meet her, in my opinion you are behaving unethically. You have to realize it is just not normal for someone to hand that much money to someone they have never met. And, as tempting as it might be, you would be taking advantage of her by accepting it.

If she's a scammer, and travels to your location and you go to meet her, you are putting yourself in danger, as has been pointed out by others in this thread. Scammers are excellent social engineers, and there's just no telling what they might have planned.

Either way, by making plans to meet up with her to accept this huge gift, you are doing something wrong.

I urge you to give up the effort to collect her money. Tell her that you are still dying to meet her, and want her to come visit you...but you want her to put the gift on hold until after you've met. That will remove the complication of traveling with the money - and the gift can come later.

If she's for real, this would put this relationship back in a "normal" mode where you can actually see if something is there between you.

If she's a scammer, she'll drop you because without the enticement of the money, there's no opportunity for scamming you.

Whatever you decide to do, please let us know. Part of me wants to encourage you to keep going, just to satisfy my curiosity about what the scam twist is. But then, *I'D* be behaving unethically, because I'd be encouraging you to do something that is either dangerous, or unethical!

But if you do pursue it, please don't leave us hanging. Also, please understand about the baiters here who have been skeptical about you. We're baiters - it's in our nature to be skeptical. That's how we reveal scams, and save victims.

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Catcher In The Lie
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

MrJazz wrote:


Quote:
I feel no need to comment insults or theories about me making this up.


Please don't take it personally. Obviously you are on a site which focuses exclusively on scams, so by it's very nature, there will be skeptics. If I'm not mistaken, you posted here for input, which doesn't preclude cynics.

Many, (including you yourself) have pointed out and raised numerous red flags as to why you/we think this has scam written all over it.

You wrote:

Quote:
She just didn't understand the importance of informing me about what was happening, and didn't tell me about her not making the flight until the same day I was supposed to travel.


Surprise, surprise. There's your 'first' delay, and here's your 20th clue:

It is absolutely ingrained in anyone raised in or around the legal profession (father, brother, etc.) that timing and communication as to appointments are critical to any issue at hand. If nothing else, (and disregarding your very broad statement using South American mentality as a reason or excuse), 'she' would have learned that much just through being around it all of her life. If she portrays herself as being educated and intelligent, it doesn't matter where she is from......by her very background, she would know this is an intrinsic standard of the profession.

I certainly wish you well, but after all is said and done, it sounds like she's keeping you off balance with 'mixed messages' of hope, thereby keeping you hooked..... (for another 14 days).

In the end, human nature dictates what we wish to hear and see, or not.

I sincerely say 'Good Luck' to you!

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drab
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I would assume that the woman is real. That she is insulted and upset that when offered, a man that has admitted to her that he has no romantic interest in her any longer, would still accept a large monetary gift. She is now wasting his time and playing with his emotions as punishment. That is probably what I would do. For some reason I have no particular interest in reading about the conclusion of this.

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mrJazz
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:16 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I know that the nature of this site is skeptisism and what appears to be a scam easily is thought of as just that. I read all of the responses, and listen to your thoughts because I do realize you are much more informed on the subject than me.

I'm not offended by anything that's been said, because this is after all an anonymous forum, and we do not know each other.

I'd like to point out however, that inspite of what some of you may think, I do in fact reflect upon the theories and thoughts being presented here. That was after all my reason for telling the story. If I was as "dumb" as I might seem, I wouldn't be interested in asking for the opinions of a bunch of strangers, them being experts in this field or not. Many of you have helped me to think this through in many diferent ways, and I do appreciate that.

I have a lot of thoughts about this girl, and her behaviour seems more and more supicous. Right now, I've kind of lost interest in the encounter itself, and I'm not focusing as much on it as I used to do. It'll be up to her to take contact, and try and make plans and such. But I'm not sure that I'll be accepting anything.

I guess I was more of a believer to begin with. But even then, my intention was to meet up with her and talk, first of all. I got the idea from her as well that she wanted to meet me and get to know me somewhat in a more personal way before dealing with the whole money business. I wasn't really intending to go and just collect the money. In fact, I was thinking more that I wanted to see what this was all about. And also, of course, to meet this person, and see what she's like in real life.

I'm leaning more and more towards not accepting her offer at all. I might travel to meet her if she decides to travel in the end, but there's a LOT of thoughts spinning around in my head when it comes to the money gift, and if I can't feel completely right about this "favor", I simply can't go through with it. If she's really that wealthy, and gladly will throw away 30.000 out of generosity, she also should be able to accept my rejection of this favor in person, without making a big deal out of it.

If she gets mad and hysterical, then I guess her intentions aren't that pure after all. And then, well, the worst thing that could happen, is for her to storm out of the place, city, and country, and out of my life. I guess that would not be anything but good riddance. I do not think I'm risking anything, BEFORE recieving the money in my hand (or bank account). THAT'S when the consecuenses of her potential non-friendly motives could be realized.
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Cachuma
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Okay, Mr. Jazz, I'm happy to read that you are beginning to question whether or not it would be right for YOU to accept this gift from her.

But I'm troubled that you haven't agreed to decline the gift BEFORE she travels. You are still willing to meet up with her and see if you feel comfortable accepting it. That says to me that you are still hoping this young woman will travel to a foreign country to hand a huge bag o' cash to a man she's never met.

If you really do want to "do the right thing", AND protect yourself from any possibility of scam, AND leave open the possibility of a relationship, the way to do this is to decline the gift now...before she comes. That will eliminate the possibility of scam (without the money enticement, there is no scam). AND it will eliminate the complications keeping her from traveling to meet you - if she's for real.

If you really are interested in exploring the possibility of a relationship with this woman, shouldn't meeting her in person be the most important thing? Wouldn't you want to eliminate any obstacles to that occuring? Wouldn't you want to remove any complications that might poison your budding relationship before it even starts?

That's my advice. We each have to set our own ethical standards. I realize that not everyone sees anything wrong with agreeing to accept tens of thousands of dollars from a young woman they have never met. I do. I will now leave you to your own internal ethical battles. And I wish you all the best.

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