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 Car hits fans at Dutch Royal Show

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Fo'andles
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Reports are that there are 2 killed and 14 injured.


WARNING IF YOU WATCH THE VIDEO IT CAN BE UPSETTING.

click on link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8026807.stm

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Tastysnack
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

What a cluster. Too bad for those people that were killed.

Had it been in the US, instead of the police talking to the driver, it would have been several black clad Security officers pumping round after round into his car until he was dead.

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Klaasvaak
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Fortunately we don't live in the US.

So far we think it is not accident and the car was trying to hit the bus with the royal family.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://frontpage.fok.nl/nieuws/110154/

edit:
google translate sucks, but its the only english link i have at the moment

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Nanny Ogg
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sounds really horrible.
My heart goes out to those people killed and injured on what was supposed to be a pleasant day out.
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Klaasvaak
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

4 dead Sad . The guy was acting alone.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8026807.stm

'Queen's day' national holiday will never be the same again. Sad

Eta: Suspect is charged with attempted attack on the royal family.

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Last edited by Dutch on Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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margory
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I feel for those people who were injured and I can only express my condolances to the relatives of the dead people.
Crying or Very sad Sad Crying or Very sad
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Tastysnack
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Klaasvaak wrote:
Fortunately we don't live in the US.

So far we think it is not accident and the car was trying to hit the bus with the royal family.



So let me get this straight, it's fortunate you don't live in the US, because security didn't attempt to shoot the driver?

And yet, in the next sentence you think that it wasn't an accident and he was trying to run into the royal family?

He should have been shot long before he even got that close.

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Ima Baeder
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

That's so sad. Crying or Very sad

@Tastysnack: I don't think the police would have immediately shot him had that been in the US. They don't just go around shooting people. Laughing
They didn't even know if it was purposeful at the moment it was happening.

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Tastysnack
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mod edit - full quote of post directly above deleted - SP

No, you are correct they don't go around shooting people.

But the Secret Service don't kid around. If they think something is going down, they don't mess around. Period. Have a read about some security in Chicago shortly after the election:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/autocorner/chi-getting-around-01-dec01,0,1508757.column

Either way, it's a tragic day for those involved.

Why is it that the moron responsible for these type of issues more often then not lives? And the innocent bystanders die?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

the driver was unconscious when pulled out of the car, apparently.

the car was very badly damaged when it emerged from the crowd.
not clear if that was as a result of ploughing into the crowd,
or if the damage occurred beforehand.

after emerging from the crowd the car carried on in a straight line until it hit a statue,
so it looks as if driver was knocked out when damage was caused.
it's lucky that the statue was there, because car was heading for another dense crowd.

police searched his car and home, and ruled out terrorism (not sure how/why).

given that every sight-line from police to the car had crowds behind the car, it's probably a good job that police did not open fire.
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Dutch
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^
Tastysnack wrote:
But the Secret Service don't kid around. If they think something is going down, they don't mess around. Period.


That won't be much different to the Netherlands. Of course threat- and risk analysis are being made in the preparation phase of this event. In this case the perpetrator is an average man, a former employee in a security firm, got sacked a couple of months ago, couldn't pay for the rent and was about to be kicked out of his house on Friday. He didn't have any criminal background whatsoever. There's not much a Secret Service can do in cases like this. I hate to think what might have happened had he driven a Hummer instead of a Suzuki Swift.

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Tastysnack
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mod edit - full quote of post directly above deleted - SP

Frankly, I was shocked that the royal brigade was driven past the accident. Seems to me they would have had some sort of contingency route. At least get everyone off the open bus! That seemed kinda goofy they kept driving on the route.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^ They were very close to their destination, less than half a mile, and they weren't being shot at or something. At that point I guess that bus would be the safest place for them should a second car have broken through the crush barriers. (@ r2d2: hitting 2 rows of barriers with high speed was the reason the car was damaged heavily, and of course smashing 17 people helped a bit as well)

BTW: #5 just died in hospital. The driver's situation is critical.

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margory
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 5:14 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Tastysnack wrote:

So let me get this straight, it's fortunate you don't live in the US, because security didn't attempt to shoot the driver?

And yet, in the next sentence you think that it wasn't an accident and he was trying to run into the royal family?

He should have been shot long before he even got that close.


It all happened so fast that the security didn't have time to pull out their guns. Not to mention the fact that Dutch police officers (who are alowed to wear fire arms) are trained NOT to shoot unless they have to.

Don't forget that this happened at a busy (like REALLY busy) event with loads of innocent people around. And the car driver got injured at the first accidents (where he hit several people in the audience).

So far there are 5 people dead and the idiot who drove the car is seriously injured in the hospital. I even read a report somewhere that he appears to be brain dead.

EDIT: that's also one of the good parts about Queens Day in Holland. You get to 'meet' the Dutch Royal Family. They do have good security though, don't get me wrong. But sometimes there are idiots who pull of stunts nobody else would have thought of.
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Nanny Ogg
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:03 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Just a thought
Even if the driver HAD been shot the momentum of the car would have carried it forward anyway with much the same consequences.

Hear the driver has been declared dead
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Roycropper
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 9:23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I guess now he's dead we'll never know what posessed him to do this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8028317.stm

Looking at the footage, the luckiest guy was the cop on a mountain bike (in a white top) who was in front of the monument - the car came straight at him but he got out of the way.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 10:11 am Reply with quoteBack to top

How the bloody hell did something like this turn into a 'my security teams tougher than yours?'

That was rhetorical.

Some wanker drove a speeding car threw a crowd of people to ram it into a vehicle 10 times it's weight and size. He might have scratched that bus. As I am sure any security experts here would agree, shooting into a crowd of people isn't the greatest of ideas.

Not even a sniper on his best day with clear skies, warm weather and a slight tail wind would have made a split of difference in this situation. Trust me. but.. but.. No. It would have happened all too quick.

Not knowing anything about anything, lets not speculate on hindsight. I'm more concerned for the children who were crying because her mothers head was open.

Please be nice Very Happy, and have some perspective.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 11:56 am Reply with quoteBack to top

if anyway squeamish don't open

Mod edit - image url removed, if people want to see children and adults immediately after being hit by a car, they can do a search for it, don't post that crap on here Evil or Very Mad - SP

sincere apologies warning was given but I accept the rebuff

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 3:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Tastysnack wrote:
Klaasvaak wrote:
Fortunately we don't live in the US.

So far we think it is not accident and the car was trying to hit the bus with the royal family.



So let me get this straight, it's fortunate you don't live in the US, because security didn't attempt to shoot the driver?

And yet, in the next sentence you think that it wasn't an accident and he was trying to run into the royal family?

He should have been shot long before he even got that close.


I am really glad our law enforcement almost never use tasers, guns or any other form of weapons. Shootings over here are almost non existent. Only the top level criminals may have a gun, but not your avarage wannabe hippiegangster.

Quote:
He should have been shot long before he even got that close.


He should not have been shot, he should have been stopped.

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Tastysnack
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 5:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'll just say these 2 things.

1. The intentional act was terrible. I feel bad for the families of those killed.

2. I have no issue with security forces engaging in deadly force. While I don't own a gun, have never been in the military, or any training, I fully respect those that do.

I'm not going to question the gunning down of some loose screw intent on harming others.

Would deadly force have affected the outcome of this situation? It's hard to say. ( After watching again, probably not) But I'm not going to rule it out for future incidents.

I had said it before, but I was SHOCKED that they allowed the parade to pass by the car. My thought would have been to keep the Royal Family away. How could they have ruled out that the vehicle didn't have some sort of explosive device on board in the time between hitting the monument and the parade passing.

Just an observation.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 11:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Tastysnack wrote:
I was SHOCKED that they allowed the parade to pass by the car. My thought would have been to keep the Royal Family away


The collision with the statue happened next to the royal bus. Keeping the bus moving and increasing it's speed looks like the only sensible thing to do in this case. What would you have decided? Stopping the bus next to the car, and unload the royals with the probability there's explosives in that car doesn't look like an option, does it?

Under the circumstances I think everything within the power of police/ MP/ security/ Red Cross/ Ambulance personnel worked well.

The incident is being investigated and analysed thoroughly now. No doubt threats like this one will be prioritised in the next events. Roadblocks come to mind, to prevent the ability for a car to build up high speed outside the parade course. Or setting up a no go area within one KM of the parade route. But even then there's enough sicko's around that could cause harm one way or the other.

Victim #6 died today. Still one critical.

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 3:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Tastysnack wrote:
Just an observation.


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

just to fill you in tastysnack from what i read in the media here it was not others he intened to harm , apparently he wished to kill himself after loosing his job and his home . if thats true ( or even if it;s not ) it's very very very sad for the other people who died my heart goes out to thier families . if a person is so determined to kill him or her self there are ways of doing it without taking others with them .

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6201863.ece

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