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 So glad when I did this - and so wish you'd told me that

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Branwen
Baiting Guru


Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 4771
Location: Down on the (Playmobil) farm


PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Six months baiting and I still feel kind of new and inexperienced. But there is one thing I'm so glad I have done; and one thing I wish someone had warned me about.

I'm glad I invented a severely brain-damaged character. He had been in a road accident. Hit by a drunken driver and awarded maximum compensation. He said yes to everything and did as he was told, with no comprehension whatsoever.

The scammers were so patient with him, giving him step-by-step instructions about how to withdraw large amounts of his compensation money from the bank and send it to them via Western Union.

It drove home to me what scum they are and what depths they will go to.

But I wish someone had also warned me that some scammers can also be most interesting people. It threw me a bit when I found I was actually looking forward to their mails, and reading more about life in their country. 'Lads lie' - so I would google the things they said - and find that they were telling me the truth. Fascinating culture, fascinating politics, fascinating daily lives and attitudes. This goes on. I've got a horrible money-grabbing Lad at the moment who is writing me long mails about health improvement ideals in his country and why they are or are not working. And is seemingly (from all his questions) genuinely interested in health initiatives and policies in my character's own country (which is coincidentally the same as my own) too.

When he eventually gives up on my character due to the non-payments, I will actually miss his letters.

I miss some of the discussions with others that have by now deserted my characters. I fed them rubbish; but they had something interesting to say.

It doesn't disorientate me anymore. But the first time it happened, it did. And I wish someone had warned me that some criminals are actually also quite human in other areas. So I was ready for it.

And I'm just wondering about other baiters. What are you glad you did or knew when you started? What do you wish someone else had warned you about?

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It is your first time to use western union so therefore none can blame you. It is always like this at the first experience. - Yes lad, and at the second, and the third... you'll see.

I don't want to guess the number - But, lad, isn't that the best fun to be had with MoneyGram reference numbers?
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Master of Puppets
Baiting Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 3295
Location: Pulling the Strings


PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I haven't had really that much lads... and all of them actually were money grabbing fools. I had this blackmailing lad which turned into a ten-page thread but he didn't get any further than 'yelling' (=caps lock) at me to pay him or he would release my tape...
And I have got an old-widow-lad-character (and her attorneys) now, but the old lady just died as I suggested that we use here money to pay for the documents. There's no depth to that lad...

So... No, there's nothing I really regret about my baiting history (which isn't that long anyway). What I am very glad about is the big, responsive (and often quickly too!!) and helpful community that I found here. (as well as a lot of people with just the kind of humour I appreciate so much)

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Ivana
Master of Master Baiters


Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 852
Location: Beautiful Hot Springs


PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I do romance scammers and spend most of my time with them on IM.

I've run across the issue where I start to feel as if maybe I am special to them, even though I know they are scammers - then I come read here and find almost word for word things they'd said to make me start to feel that way.

I've had conversations about everything from yam festivals, to cloth making, to the various areas of nigeria and their cultures/languages/jobs, etc...

I've had the odd lad who just would say "give me money" but for the most part, the lads really do go out of their way (it's their jobs) to remember (write down) little details about my life - ask how a friend is doing - etc.

I use a lot of details from my real life (not anything personal to identify me) but things like friend's names and such so I can keep my story straight - so I find myself talking for hours on end about such friends, life problems...and it's nice to have someone new to talk to - they become almost pen pals...

And when I don't pay out and they disappear for 2 weeks (pay day is every 2 weeks), it pisses me off - and I shouldn't be emotionally invested with my lad...but I do think that somewhat makes the lad trust me more...

When it comes time to take revenge for the human race, I'm always more than gleeful at the results of whatever I throw at him Wink

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Pith Helmet x2 Lagos - Cont, Benin "i really waste my money,time,effort,energy" - j.m. (w/OD)
Pith Helmet x2 Lagos - Cont. Benin, Lagos - Benin city - "i wasted my time and my money" - collins (w/OD)
Pith Helmet x2 Lagos to Benin city - kelvin (thanks again OD !!!) ongoing bait Very Happy
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"that i might be talking with an antichrist" - Kelvin
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FrumpyBB
Dean: Eater University


Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 5988
Location: Germany


PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I use to pester my environment a lot about baiting modalities...they enjoy it (I hope). I tell them a lot about ongoing baits on Eater, and why we do this, but to them I stress the fun aspect a little more than the education aspect, and I tell it to them like an episode story, like an ongoing soap opera (that´s how I understand baiting and its dramaturgy...).
What could be condoned as pure vanity (though I get heaps of useful alibis as to why-not-yet-payment and ideas of what to say next to them), it has served the third time today as a "phew, glad I did it!"moment...when a 15 year old child of an acquaintance whom I´ve telling a lot to just unusually raised his voice and said "That´s what happened to me during the Easter Holidays and I´m glad you had mentioned it because I wanted to buy an iPhone from a market site on the net (a smaller, regional variety of Craigslist) and it was a good offer but then they wanted the payment to be sent to Nigeria as an advance payment, that made me think of what you had been saying, and I went away from that offer."

Or was this off-topic? - Well... I spend a lot of time with this...not physically...but I´m thinking all of the day about what to answer next to the lads...the actual email-writing then takes only some 5-10 minutes a day but certainly my mind has been wandering off that day for more than 2 hours. I cannot remember having this about any other pastime I have had and taken seriously. And the more I read about RL vics on ScamWarners and elsewhere, it seems the more I take baiting seriously. Oddly.

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PeopleExpress
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 81


PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:36 am Reply with quoteBack to top

A successful scammer is one who can get the most out of his victims. To do so, tit has to appear as legitimate as possible, which is why scammers will go to great lenghs to show compassion, interest, intelligence, etc. Without revealing too much about my real life job (not in law enforcement btw), I've had lenghy interactions with con artists, theives, etc. They all have interesting tips, stories, and tricks they use but everything they've taught me has always had the same goal; to appear as legitimate and as honest as possible.

Most 'normal' people (those who don't scam for a living) have a natural tendency to lean towards most people being honest and they actually feel wrong for assuming that person may be a scammer. Scammers know how to play on this, as most normal people are not confrontational, scammers will be.

I wish I could talk to some of the folks who have fallen for a 419 scam, I'm betting they're the same people who have inadvertantly given money to panhandlers, assuming they're actual people in need who have fallen on hard times. I genuinly feel bad for people who have fallen for these guys (419 and panhandlers)
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frank.lester
419Eater is my life


Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 475


PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

interesting thread,

I have also found some of the scammers they are very good in playing on the emotional keyboard, whilst others are more the primitive typ - just go now to WU and send me this, ok.

but until now did not have one I would like to communicate to, beside of baiting. and often it feels just like wasted time, to read that boring junk again and again.

I want a automated baiting program, at least for first 5, 6 mails. something like ELIZA , http://www.cyberpsych.org/eliza/
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the vampire
Boring Baiter


Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 3601
Location: playmobil land


PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I never get emotianaly involved with a lad. I think of them as a turd lying in the toilet about to be flushed away. I would never become a pen pal with a lad as Drbo and some other baiters are doing. I really hate coruption, scammers and con artists and my main goal is to make the life of my lads as misarable as possible. I don't care much about sig icons, i'm going for siggy lines. If my lad gives me one i know i made his life miserable. So yes, i am glad i started baiting and do something against these criminals even if it's just waisting their time.

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mr.scissorkick
t3h pwn3d


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 1973
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:26 am Reply with quoteBack to top

During a recent phone conversation, I taught a lad from Ghana all about Easter Egg hunts. I was truly shocked when he told me he'd never heard of it; he was actually interested enough to ask me questions (how do you get candy into the egg, etc.) instead of talking about the dormant account he's trying to pawn off on me. I don't think I changed him into a great guy, (about 2 weeks later we were planning out a vehicular murder on an imaginary dolla chopper), but i suspect the Amaizu family will have the rockinest Easter in Ghana.

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NotPhil
419Eater is my life


Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 479


PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

if you miss lad add a hotmail account to your gmail account (yes, check hotmail from within gmail, and use gmail to send as hotmail) and bait him all over again pushing harder on the buttons that annoy him the most

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Dorothy
Baiting Guru


Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 3114
Location: somewhere over the rainbow


PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mr. Scissorkick--
As fun as it is to have those discussions, you don't want to educate the lads on local culture (unless you have slipped in a sufficient amount of misinformation of course). Sadly, he was probably curious because he saw the practical use of the information in his scamming, not because he wanted to try something new with his family. The lad is going to turn around and use that information on a real victim.

For example, if you taught your "American" lad about Easter egg hunts, he is likely to go to his next victim (especially if he is running any romance scams, and it is very common for lads to run several different formats at the same time) and describe "his" Easter. If his information is accurate, the victim is more likely to believe he really IS "American"--for a victim who was on the fence about whether he is real, that information could be what ultimately wins them over.

On the other hand, if you taught him some goofy information like the baiter--I can't remember who--who taught her lad that American Halloween parties involve dressing up as an Easter bunny wearing odd colored socks and bobbing for eggs (or something like that--can't remember exactly but it was quite outlandish and the lad did in fact "use" that information on another vic who happened to be another baiter character); the lad will still use that information on a potential victim, but the victim is very likely to run screaming in the other direction Very Happy

edit to add: he may not be playing American in your scam, but it is very possible that he is lying about his country of origin in another scam.

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Last edited by Dorothy on Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Master of Puppets
Baiting Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 3295
Location: Pulling the Strings


PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^ That is great... I might try that sometime Razz

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Dramaqueen
Juan's stalker


Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 1424


PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I totally agree with Dorothy. ANY opportunity to misguide your lad and lie lie lie to him is the best way to go. Never give out real information if at all possible.

I have convinced my lads (romance lads) that by calling me fat means they are accepting my character.
I get them to refer to me as big ass and reward them with gushes of affection and tell them how happy they make me when they do this.

I have told them I love being called their shrew. I tell them how women love being talked dirty to and the nastier the better because romance is boring and we like nasty porn.

My main goal is for the lad to pick this up and use it on a victim who will get huge red flags from this and hopefully drop the scammer.
I lie about everything I possibly can so when they get a new victim they will look crazy or insane to them.

Most lads are very smart and will pick up useful information if given the chance. To think that scammers are stupid just because they talk funny is so wrong. They can adapt to anything and use it for their benefit.
Always try to de-educate. Sorry I rambled off topic. Embarassed

On topic I will admit I like talking to my scammers too. The more I can talk to them and say outrageous stuff the more fun I'm having at the same time.

I laugh a lot at the things I say and do to them and the crazy things they say back.
They do share parts of their culture and histories and it is useful to learn from this so I can better understand how their minds work.
Use the information I gather from them to use against future scammers I will be in contact with.

Those of us who talk with our scammers on YIM do become more attached to our lads because we spend so much time with them. We do miss them when they finally freak out and dump us but we know we have done our job well and wasted as much time and resources of the scammer as possible. Not to mention the de-education we have hopefully instilled into their heads..

There is nothing wrong with enjoying our hobby by having fun and helping fight against scammers and fraud at the same time.
We must always remember that, although they are fun to mess with, they are criminals and hurt lots of innocent people.

I have a particular pet right now that I enjoy talking with very much.
It doesnt mean in anyway that I am going to stop trying to get him to safari, get tattooed, spend hours of time talking to me in YIM and calling me for 46 mins on the phone like he did yesterday.

I have him calling me fat ass and DQ and I'm loving every minute of it.
I love learning about his culture too. It will be useful in the future to use against him.

So yes our pets can be very enjoyable. Twisted Evil
I never burn a lad either because a lot of times they will come back for more and that is perfect. Wink

Enjoy talking to your lad and never feel bad about it because in my opinion the more they tell us the better because knowledge is power.

Their job is to make their victims feel good and trust them.
My job is to do the same to them. Very Happy
So I let them kiss my ass all they like because I will surely play along and know I am just a meal ticket to them and nothing more.

I know they will do anything to me if given the chance and I will do the same to them. Having fun with your pets, in my mind there is nothing wrong with it and it helps to pass the time if you enjoy what you do.

Always remember they are criminals and hurt lots of people no matter how sweet and innocent they play.

They deserve anything and everything we do to them and more.
Have fun with your pets, and enjoy your time with them, it will hurt them worse in the end.

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Cachuma
Baiting Guru


Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 2284
Location: Blowing bubbles at 130 fsw


PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I used to get more involved in my baits, in terms of crafting lengthy responses and nurturing the relationships (and throwing in as much disinformation as possible). But these days my time for baiting is more limited, and my objectives have changed.

When I first started baiting, I was probably more interested in the funny, silly side of it (inspired by some of Shiver's classic hilarious baits). I sometimes pushed the silly envelope too far, losing some lads, but resulting in some epically funny baits. But now my objectives are more about fighting 419 crime than having fun...so I bait to waste as much of the lads' time as possible, using as little as my time. I pretty much just straight bait, keeping my responses brief and confusing. My character has changed - I used to be a horny 52-yr-old widow falling in love with all her lads, now I'm a dotty 72-yr-old widow. (And sometimes 92 - if I want to play REALLY dotty).

I'll still trot out the horny widow sometimes, if I see a lad that seems like a good prospect for that. But for the most part I just keep it straight. I've gotten much better at knowing what to say, in as few words as possible, to get the lads all wound up. What this means is that I only have to spend a few minutes, and my lads end up spending hours trying to move me to payoff.

It may not be quite as much fun, from a creative-writing perspective, but I do feel like I'm being a more effective baiter. And it also means that I don't get involved in "relationships" with them.

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manbiteslion
Baiting Guru


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 4816
Location: Connecting my chair and keyboard


PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I read every email, no matter how well researched or special they're trying to make me feel, as blah blah money blah blah.

Some of them really are quite quite charming and we may even get on if we met in the pub over a pint...but having seen how professionally charming and disarming they are (like any good salesman) I know that if you smile too widely they'll steal your teeth.

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Badger Grylls
Chemically Abused


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 395
Location: Outlying Wastelands of Bolton


PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Agree with Vampire.........
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Ivana
Master of Master Baiters


Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 852
Location: Beautiful Hot Springs


PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm still new enough that I try to de-educate the lad, but it's hard for me to come up with stuff, but I know with time that will come ... so I mainly try to waste their time - making them do most of the talking (so I know they aren't talking to other people too).

I guess I made a mistake about educating a lad about easter egg hunts - they did easter eggs, but never a "hunt"...

Luckily I have my ole man who I can laugh about specific phrases and "special moments"...helps defuse the emotional aspect of it ... and again, coming here to read romance baits helps a lot...

I always keep in mind that they are criminals, and want nothing more than my money and if they weren't wasting time with me they'd be on someone who may not realize they are with a criminal - but the IM time especially causes emotional feelings, I think that's just normal human nature...

I'm a fairly anti-social person by nature, but the anonymity of the IM's causes me to loosen up a little in chatting...

Now I just need to develop a good sense of humor and use it when it's appropriate Wink

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Pith Helmet x2 Lagos - Cont, Benin "i really waste my money,time,effort,energy" - j.m. (w/OD)
Pith Helmet x2 Lagos - Cont. Benin, Lagos - Benin city - "i wasted my time and my money" - collins (w/OD)
Pith Helmet x2 Lagos to Benin city - kelvin (thanks again OD !!!) ongoing bait Very Happy
spent a night in jail for "wondering aimlessly"in benin city - Kelvin

"that i might be talking with an antichrist" - Kelvin
"thanks for all your effort witch never prove positive" - kelvin over m7cn s3cur3
"is hard ok i can not sleep becouse of it" - due to m7cn s3cur3 - Kelvin
"i even had a sleepless night because of it" - 2nd lad, m7cn again Very Happy
"i cant go through the stress overnight again" - 3rd lad from M7CN
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DoraTheExplorer
Anonymous


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 9264
Location: Magnolia, Mississippi


PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
And it also means that I don't get involved in "relationships" with them.

I understand this school of thought. I don't have very many 'relationships' with my lads.

However, that being said (along with what everyone else posted), we do have to remember that each person baits their own way. I don't think one way is better or necessarily more 'effective'. Wasting any of a lad's time, even if it is just to respond to several emails from a baiter, is 'effective' and worthy in my book. And if you can add some de-education and give them nothing to use against potential victims, it is all the better! Wink


There are so many ways to help in the fight against 419. Being a mentor, encouraging new members, posting baits to attract new members to join the fight, killing sites, becoming active with ScamWarners, etc, etc, all are different ways to also indirectly waste a lad's time.


And a special note to the romance baiters: I don't do what you do, but you impress me greatly. And one of the particular aspects of your specialty is that you can spend a lot of time with your lad. And thus, you do get close to them. Emotionally attached in a way that most other baiters don't get. I respect you greatly for what you do! Very Happy

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drbo
Master Baiter


Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 127
Location: Canuckville


PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

the vampire wrote:
I never get emotianaly involved with a lad. I think of them as a turd lying in the toilet about to be flushed away. I would never become a pen pal with a lad as Drbo and some other baiters are doing. I really hate coruption, scammers and con artists and my main goal is to make the life of my lads as misarable as possible. I don't care much about sig icons, i'm going for siggy lines. If my lad gives me one i know i made his life miserable. So yes, i am glad i started baiting and do something against these criminals even if it's just waisting their time.


I never said I was a pen pal with that lad. I said that he acted more like a pen pal. The way I see it mr vampire is that the longer I keep them replying and posting to me, the less time he has to waste on real victims.

I also have never gotten emotionally involved with a lad.
I have many siggy line worthy things from lads... just don't feel the need to post them at this time.

I don't think anyone here does this just for shits and giggles, that's just a bonus.

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mr.scissorkick
t3h pwn3d


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 1973
Location: 50.299209,-3.650293


PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

In my defense, I never taught him about plastic Easter eggs, so he thinks candy is inserted into hard-boiled eggs. Also, I told him that he should hide them so well on Sunday that his family (I told him it was an activity for all ages) would be looking all week. In any case, I know this lad quite well, and I don't think he is smart enough to use Easter eggs to scam anybody. If he really wanted people to think he was American, he would tell everybody about his high blood pressure and heart disease, right?

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-This is why your wife divorced you! ~Melveille Turner (Hawaiian Punch)
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Pith Helmet Accra-Lagos = "you made me and my people to wiat at the air port for nothing sake.and pay for hotel resavetion its not sound." -John Asamoha
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Nurse Nasty
Eloquent Noob


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Cachuma wrote:
But now my objectives are more about fighting 419 crime than having fun...so I bait to waste as much of the lads' time as possible, using as little as my time. I pretty much just straight bait, keeping my responses brief and confusing.


I would have to say that I believe everyone's objectives here are about fighting 419 crime. The 'having fun' part is a necessity when dealing with people. How else do we relieve the constant barrage of manipulation. I find the 'fun' is what best gives us that juxtapose of having to deal with these scammers. So what if we have fun for all the effort we put in. It's a trivial concern.

90% of all my baits are pretty much straight baits (whatever that means these days) - I'm not sure how to classify a straight bait, or see the difference between this type of baiting and what I do. I don't see any difference between what anyone does here. We have our preferred methods, styles and objectives when we bait, so it's pretty hard to box people into a mold of what can be defined as an effective baiter. Sometimes my lads just offer me the opportunity to get them doing something ridiculous.

I spend a lot of time with my lads to nurture relationships and build trust. Getting a lad to spend an entire day building me a go-kart comes from building these relationships. I do love a lad humiliating himself, but that takes work. The old rule of making the lad do all the work. I threw that one out the window the moment I joined. All the work I do to make myself a good victim is recyclable, so I believe it's time well spent.

We all do what we can with the tools we have. We're all very different in how we approach our baiting. I would suggest people open their eyes to this fact. Being effective is simply being here and baiting, regardless of your methodology.

I know we're a little off-topic, but even thought I've been here a long time and constantly baiting, I still consider myself inexperienced and I learn something new everyday. Some of the work done here always astounds me. I appreciate the efforts of everyone, and enjoy sharing in my peers victories.

Now if you please. I have some very serious baiting to do. I have a lad trying to cut holes in the buttocks of his pants for me. It's a new trend I'm attempting to start. I hope it catches on.

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