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 Scammer's Real Names

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RezoTheRed
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 55


PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have something to add to the site. In my opinion, there should be a thread revealing the "Real Name" of a scammer. It could be a fun thing, baiting them to give up their Western Union information..

Here's an example of one:

from British High <[email protected]>
date Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 4:44 AM
subject Re: YOU HAVE BEEN SCAMMED REPORT IMMEDIATELY

BRITISH HIGH COMMISSION
Dangote House,
Aguyi Ironsi Street,
Maitama District, Abuja.
TEL: +234 7064934775
E-mail:[email protected]
The British High Commission in Nigeria


ATTN;


I Got your mail,And we Apologize for the harms and damages the scammers have made you go through all those times and we have receive your mailing address and your mobile number Also for easy and urgent communications,Secondly for this to be carried out please we will like you to forward to this office your DHL mailing account information if you have an account with the DHL courier service so we can register your ATM CARD as we have chosen to pay all the scam victims via ATM CARD,to be secured and i hope you have an ATM machine in your city as some of the victims have gotten their own money from the ATM machine and have confirmed that to us,so i advice you go ahead and send down your mailing account if you have any with the DHL courier service.


And we are doing this for the sake of building good relationship again with your country and your self so that is why we are paying you back the money that those scammers collected from you and the three countries has mapped out $800,000USD for each victim of scam ok so your ATM CARD will contain your $800,000 USD,Which you will be able to withdraw only the maximum $4000 per day.So get back to us with the dhl mailing account so we can proceed,but in alternative of you do not have a mailing account with the dhl courier service please kindly indicate so we can advice ahead.





Yours truly,
Mr. Robert S, Dewar
CONSULAR,
BRITISH HIGH COMMISSIONS
ABUJA.
Quote:



So.. he wants to give me money. What's my response?

I understand, thank you for being a good friend to us in the United
States. There are laptops that I want to send to you, only if you use
the shipping. Please call me 1-206-333-1596 so I can send them. At
first, I would like to send you 10 Anus XXL laptops to help your
agency to fight crime. http://www.anuslaptops.com/product.htm is the
page that shows the prices. To help you, I will send you 10 $1,799
laptops. Email me to: [email protected] where I can receive your
communication for these.

In the name of mighty God, I hope these free computers from my company will make a big help to you.

-Rodney
Quote:


Sure enough.. he responded back with his information. It's at the bottom:

BRITISH HIGH COMMISSION
Dangote House,
Aguyi Ironsi Street,
Maitama District, Abuja.
TEL: +234 7064934775
E-mail:[email protected]
The British High Commission in Nigeria


ATTN;



In reference to your last email,we already reach an agreement with the DHL courier to help make deliverys to the scam victims which most of the scam victims has already comfirmed their atm recompensation fund,And it may intrest you to note that the commission has settled for the insurance coverage and the yellow tag of your ATM CARD So all you have to do since you do not have an account with the DHL, you have to send down the mailing fee of $295 to DHL OFFICE here and after which you will be given a tracking number in which you will track your percel(ATM CARD AND THE 4 DIGIT CODE) as it will take just 48hrs to get to your door step.

Here is the payment information you need to send the money with via western union .

Reciever's Name: OJOMA DANIEL
Address:ABUJA,NIGERIA
Amount: $295USD.

GET BACK TO US WITH THE PAYMENT INFORMATION AS SOON AS THE PAYMENT IS SENT.





Yours truly,
Mr. Robert S, Dewar
CONSULAR,
BRITISH HIGH COMMISSIONS
ABUJA.
Quote:



This scammer's name and location is:

Code:
OJOMA DANIEL From ABUJA,NIGERIA



I would like other baiters to get their names and addresses just as I have. Should be fun Smile


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Nurse Nasty
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Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Vast majority of the names are faked as most lads collecting don't need ID. All they need is the MTCN and all the right answers. Those that do have to collect with ID are usually faked. Then you have the low level random people they use who do have real ID are are told to collect from WU and they will be paid a few dollars. I'm not sure what we'd do with the information collected.

Then on those rare occasions a lad uses his real information to collect, you are dealing with a legal system that doesn't really care about chasing these up. It would be one of those lessons in futility. There is nothing we, or an authority that would care, that can do with faked information.

Edit: Sorry forgot to add. In the past I've baited real information out of lads. I've gotten them so far off script and convinced I will give them everything they want that they will fill out a real visa application and send me very real ID. Confirmed ID. Even forwarding that information to authorities has proven to be pointless.

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RezoTheRed
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Joined: 29 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You are absolutely correct. I've gotten flamed pretty hard on various forums in regard to my comments involving law enforcement. The leads go absolutely nowhere, and I lost a lot of motivation due to this. Actually, I have been inactive for quite some time due to it. It wouldn't be difficult for law enforcement to speak to western union about a forum thread showing potential fraudulent transfers overseas.. but I won't expect it. The funny thing is, our government pays out high salaries to individuals to create these sorts of "traps" to avoid the public from getting harmed. We are apparently interested in forwarding leads, but many quit because no "system" is in place to make any use of it. I'm ashamed that Doctorate and Master degree earning Americans are being beaten daily by uneducated 3rd world country "average Joe's." Create a place for reports, allow access to that database to law enforcement, investigate, arrest. We lose $38 Billion a year to drug trafficking to Mexico.. and we wonder why we are in a financial crisis. I know the last president wanted oil, but if we start thinking about fraud and cocaine, we might start getting money back right away.

Thanks for the response!

-Rezo

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Cachuma
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

RezoTheRed wrote:
It wouldn't be difficult for law enforcement to speak to western union about a forum thread showing potential fraudulent transfers overseas.. but I won't expect it.


Western Union has zero motivation for fighting fraud. They make a shitload of money off all of these transactions. I have stated before in Eater that my personal opinion is that the PRIMARY reason that 419 crime exists at all is because of Western Union and Money Gram. There are MANY things they could be doing to fight these crimes, and they don't. Every single transaction to Western Africa should trigger a security alert - every single person who sends money to Nigeria, Ghana etc. should be shown a simple list of information describing the common scams. That right there would at least catch some of the victims, when they recognized their situation as a common fraud. And that's just one small thing they could do. But why should they? That would mean they'd be cutting their own profits, since it would stop the transfer and they wouldn't get their fee.

Without WU and MG, 419 crime wouldn't exist.

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Branwen
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Cachuma wrote:
Without WU and MG, 419 crime wouldn't exist.


Or, maybe, it wouldn't be so easy.

I had one scammer who (after the MG problems and two failed bank transfers) suggested I sent the £400 in cash, hidden in a greetings card, and gave me an address to send it to. Where there's the greed, there's the way.

I assumed the address belonged to a friend or associate, and was not their own.

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It is your first time to use western union so therefore none can blame you. It is always like this at the first experience. - Yes lad, and at the second, and the third... you'll see.

I don't want to guess the number - But, lad, isn't that the best fun to be had with MoneyGram reference numbers?
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Dorothy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Although I agree that WU and MG certainly could be doing more, I have to say that over the past few months, I have run across several victims (especially love victims) who WERE warned by WU employees when they tried to send the money.

Unfortunately, in most of these cases, the victim was convinced that the romance/deal was real, that the WU employee was wrong, and they sent the money anyway, Of course they ended up feeling twice as bad when they finally realized they were being scammed knowing they had been warned.

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Ima Baeder
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Without WU and MG, 419 crime wouldn't exist.


That's a bit broad and not a fair comment. Scammers would certainly find other ways. In most baits, when WU and MG fails, the scammers move to bank transfers.

Western Union and Moneygram aren't to blame for AFF any more than the Postal Service is to blame for the scams that come through the mail. They provide a service that is misused by scammers. From what I've seen, they have plenty of warnings about not sending money to strangers.

Quote:
Every single transaction to Western Africa should trigger a security alert


That sort of profiling isn't fair to any law abiding people wanting to send money. Additionally, that doesn't do anything about the money that is wired to all of the other places in the world and picked up by scammers.

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Last edited by Ima Baeder on Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:46 pm; edited 2 times in total
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pablo
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

There is some evidence that EFCC is starting to see WU and MG as a part of the problem. Scams are a small part of the service that WU and MG provide. The EFCC has become concerned that legitiment money is being sent to elderly relatives that don't know to pick up the money or are charged "fees" that are a large percentage of the transfer.

The problem with information that baiters supply is in many parts of the world no real crime has been commited until money actually changes hands.

Of the baiting I have done I only believe that I have two real names and addresses. I have several other that are in the possible catagory and several more that are likely ITP.

p.
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ScammedOut
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Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 1440


PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Really, even with names and addresses, what can law enforcement do against the tidal wave of scam emails?

If I, as one person, have received over 200 scamming emails in my various accounts in the last 3 weeks, imagine even 1/4 of computer users getting just a fraction of that. The volume truly overwhelms.

And many, many scam victims absolutely refuse to stop sending money, no matter how much evidence they're shown. Education and mass advertising, internet sites, YouTube videos etc. aren't getting through, and although I'm sure WU could maybe put further security into place (maybe not - I don't know), businesses can't tell people they aren't allowed to wire their own money, no matter who it's going to.

It's easy to say afterwards, "My bank shouldn't have let me withdraw the money....WU shouldn't have sent it"....well, imagine if someone really had a friend in Nigeria (or Senegal or wherever) who was borrowing money (or being repaid for a loan) and the bank, or WU, told them they could not withdraw or send it?

Lawsuit, big time. As long as someone is not declared legally incompetant they can do as they see fit with their own money.

And scammers have been in operation long before WU was around.
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Cachuma
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ima Baeder wrote:
That's a bit broad and not a fair comment. Scammers would certainly find other ways. In most baits, when WU and MG fails, the scammers move to bank transfers.


I agree that this a broad statement, and not entirely fair. I acknowledge that my opinion is not necessarily a fair one - but it is my opinion nonetheless. I strongly believe that WU and MG could be doing far more to fight 419 crime. Yes they have done some things - and I know there are some victims who HAVE been saved by caring WU/MG employees who got suspicious and warned potential vics off. But IMO these are the actions of a few caring individuals - not a corporate policy to stop their services from being systematically used in a worldwide scourge that victimizes thousands of people every year, and brings millions of dollars into the pockets of criminals directly from WU/MG's offices.

The bare fact is that 419 crime would be much more difficult without the option for basically sending money off into oblivion without any ability to trace it. While bank transfers can work, they are far less likely to be successful...not to mention they are far more traceable than WU/MG. In my experience, I have to get a scammer to completely believe that I've bought into the fantasy before they'll give out their personal banking info. It's far more difficult for scammers to constantly shift bank accounts as their victims realize they've been scammed, then it is to just wave bye-bye to them as they pocket their spoils while walking out of the WU office.

Quote:
Western Union and Moneygram aren't to blame for AFF any more than the Postal Service is to blame for the scams that come through the mail.


I disagree with this. The postal service has no visibility whatsoever into the contents of the items they deliver. Whereas money transfers to scammers often have certain easily identifiable characteristics that could be watched for. No it won't catch every fraudulent transaction, and it might cause some headaches for certain legitimate transfers that might look like 419 transfers, but isn't it better to try to stop the crime, even if it means extra hoops for some customers?


Quote:
They provide a service that is misused by scammers.
I do agree with this. It is a service that IS valuable, and is needed by many people. I wouldn't want to see it eliminated. But I do think that it needs to be more tightly controlled, because of the strong potential for misuse.

Quote:
That sort of profiling isn't fair to any law abiding people wanting to send money. Additionally, that doesn't do anything about the money that is wired to all of the other places in the world and picked up by scammers.
You are right. I completely agree. It's NOT fair to the law abiding people who use WU/MG for legitimate purposes. And I agree any security policies put in place specific to certain geographical locations wouldn't stop crimes in other parts of the world.

But my question is...isn't it worth it to cause a few additional headaches for the law-abiding people, to save the many innocent victims who get ruined by scammers? If they're not doing anything wrong, they'll be able to do their transactions...while some scammers will be stopped, and some victims saved. And given that the vast majority of 419 crime DOES happen in West Africa, wouldn't it make sense for WU/MG to implement a bit more security in transactions that are directed to those countries?

I am not a security expert. I'm not even an expert in WU/MG. I don't have the answers. But I know that several years ago when my relative, who was clearly in the early stages of dementia, went to her local WU office and started sending thousand upon thousands of dollars every week to a dying widow in Lagos so that she'd be able to bring her "millions" to the US to help "widows and orphans", which my relative happily told the dude at the WU counter...why did no one say a word to her? Why did no one bother to suggest to her this might not be a good idea? Why didn't some corporate policy FORCE that employee to contact someone before he went forward with those transactions?

It's hard for me to feel much compassion for WU when I know that this type of thing happens regularly, and the corporation itself is not doing anything on an institutional basis. It's left to the conciences of whomever might be at the counter. Sadly, in the case of my relative, the WU employee was apparently more interested in making his own cut off my relative in this obvious scam, then he was in protecting a sweet old lady from criminals.

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Cachuma
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sorry for the double post - I'm just responding to a few comments that I feel deserve response. I'm not trying to start a debate - I'm just stating my opinions, which are admittedly strong.

ScammedOut wrote:
And many, many scam victims absolutely refuse to stop sending money, no matter how much evidence they're shown. Education and mass advertising, internet sites, YouTube videos etc. aren't getting through, and although I'm sure WU could maybe put further security into place (maybe not - I don't know), businesses can't tell people they aren't allowed to wire their own money, no matter who it's going to. .
Sadly, I know this is true. I know that there are victims who have been so sucked into the fantasy that they just simply cannot accept that they've been scammed. It's a tragedy.

But I can't help but wonder if, the very first time they were about to send money to the lad, if ONE WU counter person had asked them a few pointed questions, and handed them a flyer describing common scams, perhaps a few of these vics would have recognized themselves...and been stopped BEFORE they were in too deep to be able to accept that it's all been a lie?

Quote:
It's easy to say afterwards, "My bank shouldn't have let me withdraw the money....WU shouldn't have sent it"....well, imagine if someone really had a friend in Nigeria (or Senegal or wherever) who was borrowing money (or being repaid for a loan) and the bank, or WU, told them they could not withdraw or send it?
I agree with you. And I'm not in any way suggesting that WU should not offer these services. I'm just saying they should do MORE than they are doing today. As for what more - like I said above, I have some basic ideas, but I am not an expert. All I know is, they sure aren't doing much now. And I believe that it is morally wrong for these large corporations to continue to knowingly allow their services to be used in the perpetration of life-destroying crimes without at least TRYING to do more.

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Master Nicholas [email protected]: I must confess that i am higly obliged to be a cretin, it is a rare privilegde.
pony pony Safari = Mr. Mandl4 & Mr. Brown, 1480 total miles: Johannesburg to Gaborone; Gaborone to Maun; Back to Gaborone; back to Johannesburg.
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Ivana
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

yeah it makes me wonder if WU/MG could start a database of reported "fraud stars" - then when someone tried to send money to that name in that location, the user could be warned it was a reported scammer...

or insist that the money send to a country actually be picked up IN that country...even if you are a stranded tourist, you know what country you're in...cut down on the people saying they're in the UK when in reality they are someplace like nigeria...

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RezoTheRed
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Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 55


PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Excellent comments, thanks for responding all!

Pablo, the EFCC is just one organization that has been looking into it? I think it's interesting that many of the users here aren't even familiar with the EFCC (at least the ones I have met, and the people in my part of the United States that are concerned) What other groups and/or coalitions represent the "Scammed?" or the "unfortunate" in something like this. I've dealt with the BBB and Consumer Protection to feed them tips about business practices that harmed the consumer.. but who's out there? I think it would be a good idea to get in touch with some of them if at all possible.

Forwarding information to the United States Sleeping Service (oops, typo, I meant Secret Service) are accountable for the investigations regarding the 419 scams happening. $38 billion goes to Mexico annually (that means every year) for drugs, and quite a handful more going to 419.

If I can ask everybody in this forum to try to figure out a way for the EFCC to come up with methods of catching them, and emailing them the information.. maybe we can achieve something?

Thanks!

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GSN_fan
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ivana wrote:
yeah it makes me wonder if WU/MG could start a database of reported "fraud stars" - then when someone tried to send money to that name in that location, the user could be warned it was a reported scammer...

or insist that the money send to a country actually be picked up IN that country...even if you are a stranded tourist, you know what country you're in...cut down on the people saying they're in the UK when in reality they are someplace like nigeria...



The first one wouldn't work. How would they investigate fraud reports.

The second one would.

I think there is no easy solution. Maybe you should answer difficult, original questions (not what for? etc). Maybe if the questions were like, " find the cross product of the vectors in the plane 3x + 9y + 4z = 31", then it would weed out the scammers.

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pablo
419Eater is my life


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

RezoTheRed
Quote:
Pablo, the EFCC is just one organization that has been looking into it?


EFCC is a Nigerian ministry charge with the broader mission of eliminating corruption. They have been reasonably sucessful sorting out bank corruption. They seem to be focussed on administrative officials. At one point only three of about 40 state governers were NOT under investigation. There has been a lot or real estate scams.

Little wonder that advanced fee fraud (419) typical small amounts gets very little attention.

Every once in a while when a large scam succeeds and pressure is put on the Nigerian government with actionable evidence something happens.

It isn't that the laws are not tough enough it is there are a lot of fraud problems most with bigger implications to the country.

419 fraud keeps some of the internet cafe's open and some of the lads scaming faceless foreigners instead of engaging in street crime. This will get cleaned up only when the downside starts to have serious consequences to their society.

p.
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RezoTheRed
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

GSN_fan: Those kinds of equations are probably a cakewalk for coders. One thing that I have learned since computers really hit the mainstream are you can say "if this does this, then this does this, and saves it as this" etc. I'm just surprised that we have so many methods and so much information to go on. When you can determine what a person is going to do time and time again, you can write it out, and then figure out a smart way to make a program deal with this. I considered putting it together myself, sort of like this:

Nigerian will email, Email will open and reply, application will scan their new email response for contact information and save it in a list.

At which point, the information gained would be in a neat list, and could be forwarded to whichever agency can make use of it.

The sad thing about it is though, I have forwarded all sorts of information from programs I created, and as a test, sent them to the proper authority regarding it. Sad to say, I monitored their activity to see if they were eliminated, and they were not. Within intervals of 1 week, to 1 month, to 6 months I charted the success rate. The percentages were weak.

I just think that if we can write an official "this is what happens, then happens, then happens, etc" we can hope to see the authorities create a program for it and let the computers do the bait job, while we watch them get busted.

Thanks for all the responses guys, I know that I tend to post "unimpressed" posts, but hopefully we can start to make more sense of these situations that have had "no answer" for years.

I would also like to add that programs are not always perfect. At the same time, A START of a program that could later be modified to be more aggressive and remove changes would offer us something. Spam filters vary from ISP to ISP and Email Account to Email Account. Gmail has much better spam filtering than AOL, as I use gmail and my wife uses AOL Email. We look at it regularly and are surprised at the weak filtering done by AOL. My belief is that we can better our technology, start an application to save suspicious information, and draw out more specifics per attack. Once we work out "the kinks" over time, this will greatly reduce our issues.

Another thing I would like to point out.. is the methods in which individuals are arrested in the United States involving WU fraud. A place that deals in Western Union has surveillance, and the video recorder does a time stamp. If a Nigerian used a specific name, it will be used more than once. WU can check the transaction location and time, and get a copy of the tape for further investigation. For everyone in here that responded by saying "they use fake names, using their names is meaningless." I hate to say it, but so long as WU carries a record of the name, date, location and time of the transaction.. it is a strong lead. What do you think law enforcement uses as soon as a crime is committed?

-Rezo

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Grassy Knoll
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Public education is, in my opinion, the only way these crimes can really be combated. I remember back when fax machines were a major conduit for scammers and hearing it talked about on a talk radio show. Years later when I saw a next of kin scam in my email box I knew exactly what it was.

Why do we not have public service announcements about these crimes on radio and TV? We have PSA's about darn near every other thing that can either kill, maim, cause brain damage or give you cancer out there... how about just one more government agency that will protect us from ourselves Confused

"This message was paid for by the U.S. council on foreign fraud stars, the agency against fee based crimes, the coalition against greetings in the name of Jesus, your local baiters forum and the federal advertising commission."

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Ima Baeder
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Joined: 03 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ads like these ran in the US for a while:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iR6mZO9qXU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1qoP9tB8yA&feature=related

At the end it says sponsored by the US Postal Inspection Service for the first and Alliance for Computer Fraud Awareness for the second.

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Cachuma
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Darn, I can't watch the youtube vids right now - I'm at work and they blocked youtube. Mad But I will look forward to watching them later.

I agree that public education is the key factor in fighting 419 crime. If every single person who gets an NOK email can say, "Oh look, it's a NOK scam!" the first time they see it, then the potential for success with that particular scam modality will disappear. Unfortunately the few efforts that have been made haven't been enough. I'm continually stunned at how many people I meet have never heard of "Nigerian email scams" of any kind. And I mean adults -- successful people that I meet through work, or through boating or diving, or at cocktail parties, or whatever.

I would love to see a publicity blitz. Have a victim appear on Oprah, Dr. Phil, Larry King - all the talk shows! Along with an expert in scams who could outline a few quick-and-easy ways of recognizing them. That might save a few vics. Smile

Anyway, sorry this thread got so far off-topic - my fault. Embarassed

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RezoTheRed
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Please Cachuma, don't be sorry. I'm actually glad that I've learned a few things, and we are taking a moment to consider new ideas to give help to the general public. I agree that those commercials are important for the public to view, and neither of those *sponsoring* organizations were ever in my knowledge until now. It appears that there are a couple of tiny agencies that have made a small effort with those commercials, and it does help the "average person." I wonder why the Department of Homeland Security does not classify the removal of Billions Of Dollars a threat. I would call it "National Security" but at the same time, the pain is one sided.. it is an attack on American soil that is not causing any casualties outside of the United States. As we move into the 21st century, we can brag that 9/11 was the ONLY attack on United States soil. On the other hand, moving into the 21st century brings technological warfare into the picture, and I consider many to have been, or currently ARE attacks on the United States as a whole. Some have regarded me as a person that has been familiar with many atrocities within technological warfare, but when I realized the attacks were on the United States citizens, I began to act, bringing me here. I would like to continue to add and hear multiple suggestions on how we can be protected.

Thank you all for the suggestions, I would love to put something together and request aid in these areas from high level officials.

Very Happy

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Ima Baeder
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

There are more of those fakechecks.org ads. When you look at those on youtube, you'll see the links to the others.

I think that there was recently an episode of Oprah regarding romance scammers, but didn't see it myself.

I agree that creating awareness is the best defense.

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