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 Need a legalese speaker

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Lew_Skannen
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Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I am looking for someone with a bit of legalese knowledge, a bit of time on their hands and a slightly whacky sense of humour.

This is not for a bait but just for a bit of fun where I work.

Despite [or perhaps because of] my planet sized brain and all encompassing skills I have been given the job of organising the staff feeding payment spreadsheet.
We have some rather well paid people working here and I am constantly amazed at how petty they become when they have to fork over $2 for what is a pretty good meal. They decided that everything had to be 'organised properly' because they are all worried that someone might eat a meal and not pay the $2 etc. Rolling Eyes

I drew up the list of rules which govern the feeding fund and soon realised that it was a disappointingly brief document. I was rather hoping that if it gets converted into full-scale legalese it might swell up to a few pages and be filled with such delicious words and phrases like "whereforinasmuchas" and "notwithstanding the hereuntoaforementioned" etc. I would like something that is rather pompous and intractable ... but correct.

I have decided that the canteen shall be called the Trough and that people eating there shall be referred to as Snouts.
If anyone wants to contribute a few bits and pieces the starting point of the document is as follows.


Rules of the Company Trough
A sum of 333 naira is to be levied for each and every one of three (3) meals consumed daily.
A meal is anything consumed in the dining room for breakfast, lunch or dinner.
Meals not consumed shall not be paid for.
Participants (to be known as 'snouts' ) shall be responsible for tracking their own consumption and indicating which meals have and have not been attended
The cost is to cover short term consumables such as meat and vegetables as well as long term consumables such as salt, pepper, thallium etc
This is separate to the Bar Account.
At the end of the year all unspent money in the kitty will be allocated to the bar account and squandered.



I would be grateful if a few legal minds could set upon this and tease out every nuance, possible ambiguity or loop hole so that they may all be securely nailed shut with a nine foot thick steel door of legal gibberish.
Thanks.

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JMRazor
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Funny. I don't think I have enough time to dedicate to the entire thing, but I would call it the "Employee Meal Consumption Regulations" and have it start with a bunch of "WHEREAS", e.g.

Quote:
WHEREAS the Company has deemed it desirable that its employees (hereinafter "the Scouts") consume digestible nutrition in the form of three daily meals, including all desirable and necessary condiments and spices (hereinafter "the Meals") on Company premises at the location to be designated within the sole discretion of Company (hereinafter the "Trough"); and

WHEREAS in order to promote a more an orderly dining experience, and to facilitate the carrying of the fully burdened cost of the Meals, the Company shall require all Scouts who dine at the Trough to abide by the rules and regulations set forth below, without exception (hereinafter "the Dining Regulations"); and

WHEREAS the Scouts hereby express their desire to consume the Meals at the Trough in accordance with the Dining Regulations; ....

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Marthataran
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

JMRazor wrote:
"Employee Meal Consumption Regulations"


EMCR? doesn't make a good enough ETLA.

How about "Consumption Regulation - Allowable Personnel" ---> CRAP
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lotta
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:19 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I have no answer....just wanted to say hi Lew! It's good to see you. Very Happy

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Lew_Skannen
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:03 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Razor, thanks! That is exactly the start I need. A good word 'whereas'.

Lotta, hi! It has been a long time but we finally have a decent stable interweb connection installed so hopefully I can take up where I left off countless years ago.
I have to catch up on the news and see what has happened over the past year or so. Is Western Union still a popular hangout for mugus? Is the safari business still thriving? Laughing

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Juan Freizwidatt
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:33 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Wow! Lew is back! Break out the Champagne, everyone! Good times are ahead. Great to see you back. Not to mention, best moniker ever........... Very Happy

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Wright B Hindyou
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:06 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
At the end of the year all unspent money in the kitty will be allocated to the bar account and squandered.

That's too vague.

Try this:

Quote:
WHEREAS at the termination of the annual accounting period, communal funds yet to be allocated will be appraised by a harmonization, normalization, notarization, computerization and re-documentation committee to finally perfect all the necessary documentation with regard to the complimentary disbursement of said funds at the shared, relevant and specified entertainment outlets.

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Lew_Skannen
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Beautiful!

I think I just need to attack all six rules in the same way and we are there.
Are there any requests for words or phrases that people would like included?

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Yastreb
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

My favourite legal bafflegab is this oft-quoted example:

Quote:
In the Nuts (Unground) (Other than Groundnuts) Order, the expression nuts shall have reference to such nuts, other than groundnuts, as would, but for this Amending Order, not qualify as nuts (Unground) (Other than Groundnuts) by reason of their being nuts (Unground).

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wokabo
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

After all the WHEREASSES:

Quote:

THEREFORE, in consideration of the covenants and agreements hereinafter set, the parties hereto agree as follows:


and you should have a list of definitions:

Quote:
DEFINITIONS

In this agreement, unless the context otherwise requires:

"Salt" meaning the dietary mineral composed primarily of sodium chloride;

...etc

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Last edited by wokabo on Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:22 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Wright B Hindyou
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
The cost is to cover short term consumables such as meat and vegetables as well as long term consumables such as salt, pepper, thallium etc

Again, not specific enough.

Try:

Quote:
WHEREAS donated sums will be utilised towards securing supplies of and defraying the costs of organic perishables in both the animal and vegetable kingdoms, plus the laying in of adequate supplies of common inorganic and vegetable organic condiments such as crystallised sodium chloride and crushed piper nigrum, plus sufficient supplies of toxic heavy metal additives as required for special guests.

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wokabo
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is a nice definition too:

Quote:
“Net Realized Price” or “NRP” : a reasonable amount to cover all selling expenses properly chargeable in respect of such sales which shall include freight and handling, sales and agents commissions, insurance, distributor discounts, interest costs of payment terms and other charges and expenses paid or payable on, or in respect of any sales, it being understood that selling expenses, costs and charges may include those third party expenses and costs incurred by companies affiliated with the Company Trough, provided the same are reasonable;

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Wright B Hindyou
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Meals not consumed shall not be paid for


The meaning isn't very clear there.

Try:

Quote:
WHEREAS if designated gustatory opportunities are not utilised by the designated recipient, then in such a case, the remuneration requirements of the said designated gustatory opportunity shall not be borne by the designated recipient of the designated gustatory opportunity.

_________________
"YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO HUMANITY" - Douglas Minning

"bastard like you, I will kill you with my hand, son of nobody. May your soul rust in help." - Titi Andrew

"I trusted you very much without knowing that you are a drug addit person" - Emma Bambara

"THIS YOUR BEHAVIOR IS IRELEVANT AND CROSPOLOS CARACTER" - Madam Clarrise Keita.

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Nanny Ogg
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

How about a bit of Latin

Theres nothing about desserts in your first post so

de minimis non curat lex-
The law does not concern itself with trifles





liked the bit about salt, pepper, thallium ... Laughing

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Wright B Hindyou
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Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 1795
Location: Bangkok


PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
A meal is anything consumed in the dining room for breakfast, lunch or dinner.

Yes, that could mean anything.

Try:

Quote:
The term 'meal' shall be defined as the ingestion of solid, liquid or gaseous comestibles at any time during the day, particularly but not limited to the hours between 0500 and 0930 ('breakfast'), 0930-1400 ('luncheon'), 1400-1700 ('supper') or 1700-2200 ('dinner')

_________________
"YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO HUMANITY" - Douglas Minning

"bastard like you, I will kill you with my hand, son of nobody. May your soul rust in help." - Titi Andrew

"I trusted you very much without knowing that you are a drug addit person" - Emma Bambara

"THIS YOUR BEHAVIOR IS IRELEVANT AND CROSPOLOS CARACTER" - Madam Clarrise Keita.

"you must speak beter because we dont train mad people in this company." - Incredible Self-Baiting Pastor Joe
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Wright B Hindyou
Elite Baiter


Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 1795
Location: Bangkok


PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Participants (to be known as 'snouts' ) shall be responsible for tracking their own consumption and indicating which meals have and have not been attended


Can't see what you're trying to say, here.

Try:

Quote:
NOTWITHSTANDING the general requirements of personnel, a proactive culture among participants (to be known as 'snouts') will focus on ensuring deliverables such as keeping commitments to a summation of gustatory events attended, and no less, in a proactive sense and as a core competency, holding themselves accountable for results related to gustatory events unattended.

_________________
"YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO HUMANITY" - Douglas Minning

"bastard like you, I will kill you with my hand, son of nobody. May your soul rust in help." - Titi Andrew

"I trusted you very much without knowing that you are a drug addit person" - Emma Bambara

"THIS YOUR BEHAVIOR IS IRELEVANT AND CROSPOLOS CARACTER" - Madam Clarrise Keita.

"you must speak beter because we dont train mad people in this company." - Incredible Self-Baiting Pastor Joe
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Yastreb
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
A sum of 333 naira is to be levied for each and every one of three (3) meals consumed daily.


Incorporating part of Wright's suggestions...

Quote:
A sum of 333 Naira will be levied upon each participant (as defined in Section 1(a)) for the provision of three (3) meals (gustatory opportunities as defined in Section 1(b)) per participant per working day.

The above sum is calculated upon baseline 2007 cost-of-living parameters and is to be seasonally adjusted in accordance with inflation upon the discretion of management in consultation with remuneration authorities.

Said sum is to be considered as a Fringe Benefit for the purpose of taxation and remuneration.

Failure to utilise said gustatory opportunities will result in a pro rata reduction of the provisional levy at the following rate:
[1] 20% for breakfast
[2] 40% for luncheon
[3] 40% for dinner

Any gustatory opportunities that are partially utilised shall be considered as totally utilised unless, in the view of management, said partial utilisation was the result of factors beyond the control of the participant.

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Wright B Hindyou
Elite Baiter


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
This is separate to the Bar Account.

Nope, can't understand what you're getting at, here.

Do you mean:

Quote:
Funds allocated for this purpose (gustatory) should, as part of the need to leverage our opportunities synergistically while integrating diverse viewpoints, be regarded as separate, though equally valued if required as empathic listening in a highly charged or conflicted situation, to funds allocated for refreshments, designed to achieve appropriate life balance, at the bar.

_________________
"YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO HUMANITY" - Douglas Minning

"bastard like you, I will kill you with my hand, son of nobody. May your soul rust in help." - Titi Andrew

"I trusted you very much without knowing that you are a drug addit person" - Emma Bambara

"THIS YOUR BEHAVIOR IS IRELEVANT AND CROSPOLOS CARACTER" - Madam Clarrise Keita.

"you must speak beter because we dont train mad people in this company." - Incredible Self-Baiting Pastor Joe
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Lew_Skannen
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Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:16 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:

Nope, can't understand what you're getting at, here.


Wow. I never realised how ambiguous my writing was. Thanks for clarifying for me, Wright.
Cool

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JMRazor
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Wright is interjecting some very valuable corporate-speak which is a very good idea. Use "synergies" as much as possible.

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Wright B Hindyou
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^ Laughing Laughing Laughing

Wonderful to see you around, Lew, you've been missed...

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"YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO HUMANITY" - Douglas Minning

"bastard like you, I will kill you with my hand, son of nobody. May your soul rust in help." - Titi Andrew

"I trusted you very much without knowing that you are a drug addit person" - Emma Bambara

"THIS YOUR BEHAVIOR IS IRELEVANT AND CROSPOLOS CARACTER" - Madam Clarrise Keita.

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Marthataran
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ JMR

The best use of the word "synergy" award in recent weeks has gone to Nokia Siemens Networks
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Lew_Skannen
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Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 2084
Location: Sydney, OZ


PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is the kind of thing I am working towards. This my christmas greeting from my brother last year.

Quote:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral celebration of the summer solstice holiday, practiced with the most enjoyable traditions of religious persuasion or secular practices of your choice with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all.

I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2009, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make our country great (not to imply that one country is necessarily greater than any other country) and without regard to the race, creed, colour, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee.

By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms:

This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her / himself or others and is void where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.

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Lew_Skannen
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Long term consumables now includes salt, pepper and nuts so that crowbars the nut definition 'disambiguity' in there nicely...
[and thallium, don't worry]

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Klaasvaak
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Wright B Hindyou wrote:
Quote:
A meal is anything consumed in the dining room for breakfast, lunch or dinner.

Yes, that could mean anything.

Try:

Quote:
The term 'meal' shall be defined as the ingestion of solid, liquid or gaseous comestibles at any time during the day, particularly but not limited to the hours between 0500 and 0930 ('breakfast'), 0930-1400 ('luncheon'), 1400-1700 ('supper') or 1700-2200 ('dinner')


LEGAL LOOPHOLE FOUND!!!!!!
there is a gap between 2200 and 0500. people will abuse this Very Happy

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