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 419 a Nigerian perspective

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Owd Git
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Just come across this blogg, makes interesting reading on the effects of 419 scammers on communities.

Written by a Nigerian, for Nigerians and commented on by Nigerians.

I had thought (stupidly) that nearly all Nigerians were involved in 419, or were at least complicit, how wrong I was. Embarassed


http://aderinola.wordpress.com/2007/06/17/festac-town-and-its-419-reputation/

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FrumpyBB
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is a great text.

(Even if the "g"-word is bound to appear...)

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lotta
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
The greediest member of this party is the man or woman (not in Nigeria) who wants to reap where he/she had not sown. 419 is a fraud made famous not by Nigerians but by their greedy preys abroad.


Rolling Eyes

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Owd Git
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ lotta I don't agree with many of the authors views, but it does give a good perspective of how some Nigerians view 419

Edit to add: And the effect that these Yahoozee gangs can have on a community

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lotta
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:40 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree, Owd Git....it is always interesting to see how Nigerians view 419. The rolly was at them. Laughing

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Newdonym
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

All I could think when reading that was that the author reminds me of this; Image

For those who don't watch south park, it's a giant douche. Whilst it may (read "doesn't") have some thought provocing and insightful arguements, it is still a giant douche.
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larry
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well if he hadn't traken the position that this is all the West's fault then the only other position open to him is that Nigerians moral standards are so low that any method of raising money legal or illegal is OK.

I do wholeheartedly agree with him on one point. I believe that the reason that law enforcement in Nigeria is not arresting these people is that the cops know who they are and are collecting a portion of teh money that is scammed. this is a common theme accross Africa.

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nicetry21
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:36 am Reply with quoteBack to top

In my humble opinion , the pictures say it all , from what I have seen elsewhere , the place is a " Hell Hole " and my question is , " whose fault is it ?"Certainly not the people of other countries ...

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larry
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Most African countries blame the various Eauropean colonial empires that established "western" style civilization as being the root of all their problems. Rolling Eyes

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HitchHiker
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:21 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
The greediest member of this party is the man or woman (not in Nigeria) who wants to reap where he/she had not sown. 419 is a fraud made famous not by Nigerians but by their greedy preys abroad.


[devils advocate]
Having seen this sentiment before on other Nigerian sites, by actual scammers, I have this to say.

If you, as an ordinary citizen knowing nothing about 419, were to receive an email from a lawyer/banker saying you were being asked to stand as next of kin to someone who had left a fortune in an African bank, or that you were asked by the only surviving son of an African dictator to help get that crooks ill-gotten gains out of the country, what would you do?

If you agreed then you are being greedy and are therefore a part of the continuation of 419.

One lad actually explained it thus:
"I am not doing fraud. I sell greed. Greed is the product that I am offering to others. It is their fault if they want to buy the greed."

I guess that if they tell themselves this, it becomes the truth to them.

That and the general corruption around them, especially in the ruling classes, makes them believe they are not criminals.

But as the saying goes. Two wrongs don't make a right. So they are just as guilty as the greedy ones who respond.
[/devils advocate]

Anyway, just in case anyone thinks I am a lad hugger, if I thought they were in anyway justified in what they do, I would not be here baiting them like mad and trying to get bank accounts and fakey websites closed.

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justicebdone
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:34 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
"I am not doing fraud. I sell greed. Greed is the product that I am offering to others. It is their fault if they want to buy the greed."


I would love to have his addy and when I was done with him I would remind him, as he was in the middle of the desert all but deaded from the heat, I was just selling greed & it was your fault that you wanted to buy. That would be friggin poetic justice b-ing done.

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Wright B Hindyou
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:11 am Reply with quoteBack to top

@larry

Quote:
Well if he hadn't traken the position that this is all the West's fault then the only other position open to him is that Nigerians moral standards are so low that any method of raising money legal or illegal is OK.

The 419 scammers are completely amoral, but are dimly aware that some people might think they are doing bad things, so they invent some half-assed excuse to try to justify it to themselves.

They avoid all the hard questions, such as how their 419 activities are causing foreign investors to utterly shun Naija and so they are condemning the vast majority of their own people to a continued life of hardship and poverty.

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Murakami
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:21 am Reply with quoteBack to top

larry wrote:
Most African countries blame the various Eauropean colonial empires that established "western" style civilization as being the root of all their problems. Rolling Eyes


Well, I kind of agree (and I'm European !). At the end of the 19th century, early 20th, European countries shared Africa. You just have to look at the borders, how rectangular they are : because it was an organized delimitation of borders. That's why we end up with these terrible riots or tribes fightings (think about Hutus and Tutsis, they should never be in the same country : they are not the same tribe !). Because Europeans didn't care if the people inside the borders were of the same tribe or not, they just cared about the wealth of the land and what they could get out of it.
And when African got freedom, well, they were left with freedom and a mess.

It is still not an excuse for murders, massacres, genocides or, at a smaller scale for scamming. But we are, in a way, responsible.
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nicetry21
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Here in The US we have honorable foundations trying to help third world countries and yes through trickle down economics doesn't live up to its full potential , but our intentions are good especially for the people that make the original donations to support them , but there is so much corruption in these countries , they are taking food , medicine , and education away from their own children ... their future !!! and point their finger at us , go figure ... What starts out as a donation here , gets sold over there ... Who is greedy here ?

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Hashi
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Murakami wrote:


It is still not an excuse for murders, massacres, genocides or, at a smaller scale for scamming. But we are, in a way, responsible.


Mod note - please don't quote whole posts, we can see 'em - RC


Read 'guns, germs and steel' for the real reasons Africa was a failure.
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Titania
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I notice that those who spout the "greed creed" fail to address scams like job scams (check mule and nanny scams), romance scams, and charity scams. They refer only to the NoK, Saddam Hussein's money, and lottery scams wherein the victims think they are going to get a large amount of money they didn't actually earn.

How, I wonder, do scammers justify the scamming of vulnerable or generous victims?

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larry
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:16 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Indeed. What do they tell their mommy's when they are over for sunday dinner? Cool

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Murakami
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

nicetry21 wrote:
and point their finger at us , go figure ... What starts out as a donation here , gets sold over there ... Who is greedy here ?


Yeah... Well, ever heard of the oil companies and their trade relationships with Africa ? If you have never read anything on the subject, I can assure you it is worth a look !

Come on, we donate a lot in Europe too, but they also learnt corruption from the best of us !
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nicetry21
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I am just saying that they are the masters of their own destiny ... what do they expect when they rape babies because they don't want to contract aids , the oil trade relationships have nothing to do with the feed the children and other such honorable foundations , and I also never said that other countries didn't chip in , but it seems that they never appreciate what the US has done ... or tried to do for that matter . I hate to rub it in but the cost of gasoline where I am located is $1.67 a gallon . So I guess that you have a few things to learn from us also , I am personally not interested in being educated in how to succeed through corrupt means at the expense of the innocent or for self gratification ...

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