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 So Im Trying To Scam Scammers, But People Say Im Just As Bad

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heywood_jablomie
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Joined: 25 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi
I'm new here. I heard about this place on that radio interview.

So my thing is that I'm trying to scam craigslist scammers by getting them to pay for me to send them rocks and such things. These are people who sent fake paypal emails. People are telling me I'm committing mail fraud. Is this true? I tend to think its not since the scammers are ONLY paying for shipping, not the computer itself. So people tell me i'm just as bad, and that I'm scamming him committing mail fraud etc. Am I breaking laws? Is it against the law to send a box that doesn't contain an item that a scammer hasn't actually paid for?

I'm sure on a forum like this, most of you will think what I'm doing is great, but I'm wondering what the real legality of it is? Can I get in trouble for sending scammers boxes of rocks?

So far I only had one success from a guy that emailed me a prepaid fedex label for my computer (that he hadn't really paid for).

Thoughts?
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BrownFedora
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Joined: 07 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I believe that you are committing mail fraud by having people pay you, and then sending a box of rocks.

From what I've read, in my short time here. What you are doing is not what 419Eater is all about.
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heywood_jablomie
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:44 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I could see if I was just pocketing the money, but something about using the money to ship them a box, as intended, and just not sending them a computer because they didn't pay for it . . . doesn't seem illegal... ?
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JumpinJayJay
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

what does your ad say you're going to send them?

as a general rule we don't take money off people here, scammer or not.

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Donato
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:47 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Why don't you ask your friendly local cop? Very Happy

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Breddan Butter
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

heywood_jablomie,
You may have got the wrong idea altogether.

Most Craigslist scammers are only out to send you a fake cheque; get you to bank it and send them an overpayment by some means (usually Western Union or Moneygram)

They are not about to send you real money to pay for postage to receive anything.
Even if they were, we at Eater would not condone the practice.
Taking money from a scammer just makes you a scammer too.


Oh, and by the way, congratulations on being the 50th Eater member with a variation of Heywood Jablomie Smile

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Ab5olutD
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Some people would argue that basically that is the same as making them waste their money in internet cafes, scanning documents and taking safaris, and some people will argue it is not.

There is a line, a rather thick one, between making them waste their money taking advantage of their greed, and stealing money, even if you are Robin Hood and you are giving it to charity. Besides, I think that what you are thinking to do is not fair. Maybe I did not understand it perfectly, but by doing that you could have victims who actually are not scammers.

I am not going to tell you wether to do so or not. But just think about it. In any case I think the phylosophy of 419Eater is not that, or at least that is what I have seen so far.

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heywood_jablomie
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:55 am Reply with quoteBack to top

~ Breddan Butter,

I'm going to have to disagree (on the scam i mean). All of the craigslist scams I get hit with, are people out of the country who want to buy my item, and NOT pay for them at all. Sometimes with a fake money order, but usually with fake paypal 'escrow' payments. But its not to get me to send them a refund, they really are trying to get me to ship them my items. And yes one time the user DID pay for the shipping, he emailed me a real prepaid fedex label. So far that was my only scammer scam.
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heywood_jablomie
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

~ Ab5olutD,

No no no! I really am trying to sell a few laptops! And if the person buying it is legit, they won't get scammed, they'll get a new computer and I'll get the money for it. What i'm doing is only for buyers that i know 100% are scammers. Paypal doesn't send emails from domains like gmail.com and consultant.com

Basically I'm not baiting scammers, i'm really trying to sell some items, and just messing with the scammers that come to me. I was considering continuing on with a fake listing once my stuff is sold. Telling legit buyers i'm just baiting for scammers, and then scammer the scammers.

You guys know as well as anyone, its VERY easy for someone that knows what they are doing to easily tell the different between a legit buyer (especially on craigslist where everything is local), and a scammer who wants to buy the computer for his daughter who is away at school in africa.


Last edited by heywood_jablomie on Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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A SKYHOOK
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

well i dont see them as rocks but computer inhancement tools but i feel you should be sending instructions & have rocks labeled

put rock 1 in hand when ever you get the feeling to scam and smash the key board till the feeling goes
rock 2 should be placed on the head and hit with rock 1

depending on how many rocks you can get in to box ill leave the rest of the instuctions up to sender Twisted Evil

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heywood_jablomie
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Joined: 25 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:02 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Also let me just repeat again that I'm not trying to get money to pocket from these scammers. I'm just trying to get the scammer to pay for the shipping of the items they are trying to steal from me. I just want to be extra clear about that.
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heywood_jablomie
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

A SKYHOOK wrote:
well i dont see them as rocks but computer inhancement tools but i feel you should be sending instructions & have rocks labeled


There was an included note, it read "sorry no computer"
And I put apple stickers on the box... a box that was obviously too small to hold a MacBook Pro Very Happy
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Donato
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:14 am Reply with quoteBack to top

They don't want the 'items' they couldn't care less what it is (it's why so many of them ask if the 'item' is available) they want your money.

THE ONLY THING THEY WANT IS YOUR MONEY.

edit to add-if you are selling legitimate stuff on craigslist (re your edited post) then the scammer has some of your real life info. These are criminals and will not take to kindly to being jerked around. You may think he's in Africa somewhere, trust me his associates will be in the next town.

Oh and someone else on here was selling something on Craigslist recently and was jerking scammers around-within five minutes he'd given me his name, address, telephone number, what time he was home and where i could meet him. Now what if i was a scammer that he'd pissed off?

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heywood_jablomie
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:20 am Reply with quoteBack to top

~ Donato,

I swear thats not the scam at all. These scammers want the item for free. I promise you thats the scam, these aren't overpayment scams.

Also back on topic, I'm reading various definitions for mail fraud, and since the scammer-buyer didn't actually pay for the item in question, I don't think I'm committing mail fraud by sending them a box of rocks. Thoughts on that?
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Donato
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams

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heywood_jablomie
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:32 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Donato wrote:
http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams


?
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luckey
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:38 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^It's true, there are scammers who go after items. Typically they go for small, valuable things like cell phones, laptops, jewelry, etc. Donato and BB are correct in saying that most Craig's List scammers tend to be overpayment scammers.

Regarding your original question about legality, I'm not sure how you are working out the payment for shipping, but if you are receiving money directly, in my mind you are cash baiting and breaking the law. If you are getting them to pay for shipping and you are confident they are scammers, I think you're OK legally, but I wouldn't do it myself.

Even if they are paying directly to the shipping companies. Most likely, they are paying with stolen credit cards or using compromised shipping accounts.



Edits: typos and clarity

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Last edited by luckey on Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:42 am; edited 2 times in total
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Breddan Butter
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:38 am Reply with quoteBack to top

H-J,
Whatever is happening, you made the following statement:
heywood_jablomie wrote:
. . . . . . . I'm trying to scam craigslist scammers . . . . . . .


Eater is a scambaiting site.
We bait scammers.
We get them to do all manner of things.

However, we certainly don't scam the scammers.

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bill2
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:39 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hey Wood, if you want our approval, wrong place my friend.
If you feel bad about it, good, might teach you something.
If you're going to do it again, don't tell us, we're not interested, you have the eater opinion, what more do you want?

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Dorothy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Even if they aren't overpayment scams (and you would be surprised how often they turn out to be even if they don't appear to start out that way), chances are you won't have the effect you are hoping for.

The local internet cafe, bus system, and local taxi drivers most likely won't take credit cards. When the lads fill out and print forms, take photos, and go on safari, they are using their own cash.

Chances are, that shipping is being paid for by stolen credit cards or phished paypal accounts, or they are using stolen accounts with the shipping companies. When it is discovered that the payment method is a fake, the shipping company or credit card company eats the cost, and then passes it on to the rest of us.

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Ceres
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

heywood_jablomie, were you influenced by the Powerbook scam?
http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/

If you were, well, we don't really do that kind of stuff here.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:19 am Reply with quoteBack to top

heywood_jablomie,
IF you have come here looking for approval , for what your doing , I doubt you'll get it..

Anyone on here will tell you the same thing "bait safe" What your thinking of doing, is not safe. Shipping anything overseas requires YOUR personal details on the customs declaration, and on the freighter manifest.

So you send someone a box of rocks, and a week later, when your telling yourself just how smart you are. You get a knock on the door at 3am..

And the following week your shopping on Craiglist for a wheelchair.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:31 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm afraid I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one! Laughing

Seriously Haywood, its not the done thing here and you are just leaving yourself wide open to these dangerous criminals!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:42 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I appreciate you're doing it with the best of intentions, but it's not Eater house style, so you're unlikely to get the reassurance you need here I'm afraid.

Sadly the scammers you're after will not lose out - fake escrows, stolen cards for shipping, etc. And they aren't even spending much time and effort, you're working harder than they are!

Instead, try opening up a couple of new email addresses unrelated to your real life ones and just write to a couple of the addresses you've been given stating "Hey, I'm glad you want to buy it (be deliberately evasive), is the colour ok for you? How will you be paying and where am I shipping to?"

They will assume you're one of the (many) adverts they've answered, they really won't care or ask about the item (the colour will be just fine), then you can mess with them - read the stickIes, start with a bit of straight baiting, use parceldir3ct or another baiter courier service that guarantees non-delivery and much frustration, send them forms to complete (warranties, homeland security, money laundering, local property transfer taxes, etc), slap them when they don't complete forms correctly, etc - they work harder and suffer more than some innocent third party paying for you to ship rocks, and you've got no real life details known to them ... a better plan all round Smile
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LetsGoYanks
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I see receiving a pre-paid label for shipping rocks to a scammer as no differnet than a scammer paying to ship you fake checks or art, or whatever.

However you said you are trying to sell legitamately, so what's stopping the scammers that you baited and sent rocks to from making a new email and then pretending to be a legit buyer, and get your real name address, phone, etc? How will you know?

In any case, your baiting reminds me of this: http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/

I would try to stick to receiving pre-paid labels rather than actual cash. Either way as long as you aren't keeping anything for your own gain I don't see the problem. However, I don't know if you're doing something that is exactly safe which is why I would shy away from it.

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Last edited by LetsGoYanks on Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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