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 419-alike, I need help identifying the scam in question.

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concernedBusinessman
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 2


PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi, I'm currently an employee of an e-commerce business that sells jewelry over the internet.

Now, as we deal with jewelry we often deal with a lot of people who don't know much about computers. We've recently however been running into a series of problems.

We've been getting an increasing number of attempts to defraud us by people posing as customers via email. The first few were easy to identify and stamp out, but I'm facing a unique situation. My manager is extremely concerned about sales right now, as we're still in the slow season for business. Management is so focused on sales right now that they'd do just about anything to make another sale, and if they think for even a split second it may be possible they'll bend over backwards (and in turn make us do so) to get the sale, with absolutely no regard for the risks involved or the viability of the sale (I.E. we spend so much effort that we've basically taken a loss in making that sale because of the labor costs.)

Because of that, if I want to warn them of any fraud I have to give them an exact, detailed response certifying the message as a fraud 100% and assuring them completely that there is absolutely no chance under any circumstances that we will ever receive any money. If there is even the tiniest margin for some doubt on this matter they will reprimand me and go ahead with what I was warning them about anyway.

Some of these scams I can do enough research on myself, but this one I need some help, here's a slightly censored version of the email (removed anything that could identify my company)

Quote:
from XXXXXXXX <removed>
reply-to removed

to removed

date removed
subject intested/URGENT
signed-by removed


i will like to buy your Faceted Drop Shaped Purple Crystal Earring from you and i will like them to be delivered to my country in Nigeria for my wedding cerimony and i will like to arrange your money through your bank account and check payment and the shipping payment .If you agree with all my conditions i will like to get your payment information such as your:
NAME:
ADDRESS:
CITY:
STATE:
ZIP CODE:
COUNTRY:
TOTAL AMOUNT TO BE PAY (excluding the shipping charges):
WEIGHT OF THE PRODUCT:
EMAIL ADDRESS:
TELEPHONE NUMBER:
ACCOUNT NUMBER:
Hopping to read better from you ASAP so that the payment can be arrange ASAP because the item are needed very urgently for my wedding..
Hopping to hear form you soon


He will only pay via bank wire transfer but as we have to arrange this through an international bank we have to give him a lot of information to successfully transfer the money. I need to know how I can explain to them for a fact this is a scam and also explain to them what he could do if we send him all of the bank account details. This will help me explain the danger to the company much better.

Any help would be highly appreciated, thank you all so much in advance.
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Newdonym
Elite Baiter


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 1043


PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The language is very lad like, but that means nothing as he already says he's in Nigeria.

Could you post the full headers? (If you don't know how, post the mail client you use and someone will direct you.)

The rest reads exactly like a cheque scam. If you notice, that they want the price minus shipping. This is so they can use their own shipping company. In reality, they don't care too much for the item. If it were to arrive then it's a bonus for them. They would send a cheque for more than the stated amount. You would be asked to forward the rest to the shipping company.
The cheque - being fake - will bounce and your company will be responsible for the whole amount.

If anyone ever asks you to cash a cheque and wire money anywhere else, then it is a scam.

You go on to say he wants to use bank transfer, this is safer than a cheque, but there are still many ways you could be scammed.

Most likely it is either a fake bank website, or he will spoof a message from your bank. That may be why he wants the details, so he can create a believable email.

What info is he asking for. As far as I'm aware, you do not need that much info to transfer money. I'll have a look for a decent source, but if someone else knows, please answer.

There is also the possibility that they will "flash" your account. That is where a merchant account will put the money into your account (I think they need card details for this) and will withdraw it again after the item, or excess has been shipped.

If he has enough details, he might be able to take money out of your account or charge items to it.
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Mugatu
** Retired **


Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 3773
Location: The star of India


PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^ Newdonym explained that extremely well. It's basically going to be a bank flash or (more likely) a fake cheque. I also see a possibility of a stolen or fake paypal account payment being offered if you refuse the bank transfer or cheque.

Whenever you get a dodgy sounding email, google a passage from it. If it's fraudulent in intent, it will give you a lot of hits showing as much.

In this instance I googled:
Quote:
Hopping to read better from you ASAP so that the payment can be arrange ASAP because the item are needed very urgently


And it came up with this blog:
http://www.jkontherun.com/2005/01/microsoft_disse.html

Scroll down until you see this bit of spam:

Quote:
We will like to buy(3)pieces of your NEW pocket pc from you and we will like them to be delivered to the company international store located in the overseas country (South Africa/Nigeria) and we will like to arrange your money through your bank acount and check payment and the shipping will be personally handle by the company on payment approval by the seller using one of the company's seller account.If you agree with all our conditions we will like to get your payment information such as your:
NAME:
ADDRESS:
CITY:
STATE:
ZIPCODE:
COUNTRY:
TOTAL AMOUNT TO BE PAY (excluding the shipping charges):
WEIGHT OF THE PRODUCT:
EMAIL ADDRESS:
TELEPHONE NUMBER:
Hopping to read better from you ASAP so that the payment can be arrange ASAP because the item are needed very urgently at the international store and our international store manager will be awaiting to received them there.
Hopping to have more


Sound familiar? Wink


For more examples of cheque scams and payment scams, be sure to read through the specific forum at www.scamwarners.com

Oh, and give the link to your bosses. They're acting in a pretty crazy manner and need educating about this kind of thing. Kudos on you for calling in.

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Last edited by Mugatu on Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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luckey
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Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 5630
Location: Check the lost and found


PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

As I understand it, there are a number of ways account flashing can work. Very often, the lad has access to another bank account. It may belong to him, an accomplice, or another victim. He gets money into that account by making a deposit in the form of a fraudulent check, wire transfer from a compromised account, etc. He then transfers the money to your account and you ship the goods, or return money to him when he suddenly needs to cancel his order. Days, weeks, or months later, the initial transaction is discovered to be fraudulent and the transfer is reversed. It will not matter to your bank that you were not behind the fraudulent transaction, they just want their money, and they will hold you responsible.

Edit to add: The Western Union knife cuts both ways. Victims who use it to wire money to scammers can kiss their money good bye. Since it is available in most countries, and Nigeria in particular, you can use it as a test. Tell him you will only accept payment via Western Union. If he has excuses why he can't do that, you know it's a scam.

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bill2
Baiting Guru


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 5496
Location: Yeah who can tell me where I am?


PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Faceted Drop Shaped Purple Crystal Earring
value?
If they insist on bank transfer it's likely a bank scam else they wouldn't need that much info.
NAME:-- company name they already have that
ADDRESS:-- not needed for simple transfer, I paid for whole containers without knowing that all I needed was their name, bank-account number and the receiving banks Swift number.
CITY:-- comes with the bank swift code so they don't need it, but it will be on your site?
STATE:-- ditto
ZIP CODE:-- no need, you ship it to them you need theirs Wink
COUNTRY:-- as State so ditto
TOTAL AMOUNT TO BE PAY (excluding the shipping charges Question ):-- your invoice
WEIGHT OF THE PRODUCT:-- not important to them, you ship and charge them
EMAIL ADDRESS:-- they have that already are they stupid?
TELEPHONE NUMBER:-- not needed
ACCOUNT NUMBER:-- maybe, but it is against company policy, let them pay by Western Union and ship when money has arrived.
They might set you up as Newdonym mentioned ^^
So make sure that the info you don't have to give them isn't free available online Exclamation
We would know more if we had the whole email though as said ^^

Google says welknown scam Results 1 - 10 of about 325,000 if I search for "and i will like to arrange your money through your bank account and check payment and the shipping payment .If you agree with all my conditions i will like to get your payment information such as your: "

Drop it and go on to the next customer. Laughing

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concernedBusinessman
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 2


PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you all very much for the information you've been able to give me. I've put together my arguments and will be presenting them soon. Common sense told me it was a scam, now I have specifics.

As for the headers, unfortunately I can't do that. I'm afraid posting too many details may get me found out, and that'd be problematic. Officially speaking I'm most likely not supposed to be doing this, but at the end of the day I really do like my job and want to make sure that this small business succeeds, so I decided to take a risk.

Again, thanks for everyone's help. I may be back if there's anything else I can't research on my own, you guys are worth your weight in gold. Smile
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Donato
Baiting Guru


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 2923


PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^

If you want to find out how to pull a header have a read here

Copy and paste the geeky looking stuff into this http://headertool.apelord.com/

Take the last (bottom) number and paste it into here http://www.ip-adress.com/ipaddresstolocation/

That'll tell you where the email originated from.

It won't work on emails sent from gmail, fastmail or hushmail which all strip the IP and replace it with their own.

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HeikeOK
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Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Posts: 2
Location: NE Oklahoma


PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

My Dad wanted to send me some money.

I gave him my bank's routing number and my account number and with ONLY that much information he was able to complete a wire transfer to my account.

So .. all that other info they're asking for is spurious trash .. it isn't needed to PAY you.
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