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 Fighting Fire with Fire - Your thoughts?

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ihatescammerers
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Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hey peeps

I realise I am a new member and none of you know shit about me as such - one or two know a couple of things others are not privey to as yet but that is another story.

I would like to know what you all feel about fighting fire with fire when it comes to email, forum and blog spammers.

So saying I am assuming most members know what MLM is - but how many of you know what EMM is and have you considered using it on scambaits forum spammers and the likes?

What I mean is there is a system that the EMM marketers use that utilises autoresponders in a rather crafty way that could well be put to use for linkbaits you lost or just to set up spammers that are very obvious and give about as much for you and your time etc as they do for you and your's welfare.


Anyone any thoughts?

Do you understand what I am getting at?


Last edited by ihatescammerers on Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:46 am; edited 2 times in total
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Mugatu
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

ihatescammerers wrote:
Do you understand what I am getting at?


No.

What is EMM when it's at home?

Are you discussing phishing tools / mailbombing / viruses or similar skulduggery here? If so, I hear rattling keys.... we're above that. Confused

(Edited to add more dodgy modalities)

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Last edited by Mugatu on Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Captain Pike
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I don't know what EMM is but it sounds like you are contemplating hitting a scammer with it as some sort of "revenge".

We discourage that, as we also discourage spamming and mailbombing. The lad will simply move on to a new box, and in the long run you haven't accomplished squat.

The best way to torment a lad is to bait him. Get him on the hook and keep him there, and try to make it last as long as you can.

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ihatescammerers
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

EMM is "Exact Method Marketing" Mugatu

It is the use of autoresponders to send follow up emails

So lets say a baiter lost a lad they could set up a series of auto responder messages to keep emailing time wasting crud to said scammer just in order to keep wasting their time one - two - three years into the future or more.

Of course I have even considered really fighting fire with fire and making the unsubscibe link in said emails just make things even worse just like some of the more canny on these scammers do but again that is another story and could be a key rattler.


Last edited by ihatescammerers on Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pastor Frank
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

ihatescammerers wrote:
Do you understand what I am getting at?


I think I do.

Do you mean flooding their email addys with spam? Not a very good idea, they will simply close that email addy and open a new one. It would be especially damaging to our cause if LE was working on a case against a specific email addy, and it was suddenly closed.

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ihatescammerers
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Pastor Freak

It is along those lines of keeping a scammer baited - it just involves using auto responders and timed mails to bait using the same methods used in the EMM game which is like an exact science version of MLM but in email form


Last edited by ihatescammerers on Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ihatescammerers
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Pastor Feak

Well no although that is of course pssoble I was thinking more along the lines of using the EMM way of thinking for scambaiting purposes

So you could in most cases anticipate an answer and have a autoresponde message set up ready to deal with/respond
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Mugatu
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ah, you're talking about a sort of "Auto baiting". I think I see now. I'd never really thought about it.

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remmy223
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

should this thread have a poll, as i havent got
a clue to what on earth EMM and MLM are too.

we deal with scammers not spammers here.
havent we got enough to be getting on with????

edit...now i look a prat for taking the time to make coffee!!!
please ignore this post now as its been answered

Embarassed Embarassed

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Last edited by remmy223 on Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pastor Frank
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

ihatescammerers wrote:
Pastor Freak


Ouch!

Are you talking about an autobaiter?

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ihatescammerers
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

remy

MLM is = Multi Level Marketing - EG Pyramid selling - it is how gangs in some cases make money using affiliate prgrams and by abusing Google PR (PageRank TM)

EMM is - Exact Method Marketing it is a marketing method used to extract money from people by using tried and tested wording and phrases containing "call to action" words that in a percentage of cases result in a purchase.

These methods given the broad knowledge range here on 419eater could be utilised to "as another poster said" be used as an autobaiter.

Further to that a clever use of "titles" in response attributes as directives for the auto responders to deliver the relevant response mails could also be incorporated into such a systems

remy223 - A poll - why - with what choices?

Please note I am not advocating MLM or EMM just pointing out some of their methods you may not have known about and possible/probable adaptations you may or may not like to contemplate/think about

Please also note I am also not advocating mail bombing.

remy223

I find I look a prat a lot - it is the so called stupid questions that help and we should get used to asking though me thinks


Last edited by ihatescammerers on Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pastor Frank
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:16 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I give up, this is way over my head.

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ihatescammerers
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Pastor Frank

I do not know if that is a good or bad thing!

You giving up and it being way over yor head - I mean.
I say this as the methods used by most scammers and spammers incuding all the bank transfer scams contain these "call to action" words that either pull at the heart strings or compel with something attractive

there is a very thin line between ethical wording and downright disgusting word usage that mean knowing about MLM and EMM with regard to scambaiting and what is and is not possible you way just want to follow so you can say "Oh I see - this is not way over my head!"

I hope other members will help me to make sure that you understand this enough to at least know the aspects I have seen that are decidedly dodgy
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Pastor Frank
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^I'm just a simple straight baiter that extracts an occasional trophy. I am just being honest in the fact that I really do not understand what you are getting at, no insult intended.

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Titania
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Confused

I thought only computer geeks spoke a language that sounds like English but somehow isn't.

Now I see that marketing people do it, too.

Confused

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Tsnerd
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Auto baiting is fine; there are several folks have tinkered with this.

These target lads, though. Forum spammers are just banned here, and we don't have problems with that, and most email spam is just deleted by most of the users here, since it is pointless to mess with those.

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ihatescammerers
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Autobatings is fine

care to elaborate and discuss "title" attributes Tsnerd?
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Tsnerd
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
care to elaborate and discuss "title" attributes Tsnerd?


I could, or at least steer you to the right people...but I'm not sure what you're asking.

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remmy223
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^IHS

there was a slight hint of wit in my sarcasm when i asked for a poll.
ie we have three choices
1 do we use MLM
2 do we use EMM
3 does anyone understand either

Very Happy

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the vampire
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:32 am Reply with quoteBack to top

@IHS Have you used EMM yourself for baiting ? If it is effective we can all use it as a tool , and i think what you mean with EMM but i have my doubts it will work .

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GomerPyle
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I use gmail that allows you to set up a one level auto-responder and, as I operate it on my 'catcher' account, it hits Lads in the way you describe.

I have also set up templates to use for mass baiting, which again is a way of baiting without thinking or effort. I consider that the benefit is that I can annoy and irritate the majority of Lads and also snag those who show themselves to be up for more fun, though by amending the script I use, I can change what effect I get.

At one stage in the Mass Lotto Lad baiting thread some baiters were using multiple gmail accounts with auto-responders to bamboozle and confuse Lads without much effort.

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The Man
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:33 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Gomer:

At one point I was using 3 gmail accounts to extract bank details. I would send out mass e-mail to the lads from account 1 with the reply to set for account 2, account 2 would auto respond with the request for the bank info and have reply to set to account 3, account 3 would make a more firm request for the account. Then I'd drop them if I did not get the account. I got quite a few that way.

I think this is along the lines of what the OP is talking about.

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ihatescammerers
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Ah so it has been tried.

If there are standard scambaits that nearly always go the same way it would not be too difficult to set up autoresponders in a very similar way to how the EMM marketers use it.

It's all just a matter of making sure the emails respond to things correctly and have the desired effect.

I am just thinking of ways to save time

The use of autoresponders set up properly using forms and attributes of the forms to send out the correct responses though to set up initially would take some time to get right in the long term it could be used as a template for many scambaits. Which would then save people quite a bit of time.

Would take a bit of fine tuning of course.
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Nelsonsbattle
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

IHS. While all members of 419eater describe their activities here as altruistic, to waste scammer's time and keep the world safe for internet fraud innocents, the truth is slightly different.

Most of us scambaiters also like to get a little fun out of baiting these bastards. Making them try to respond to unusual requests, or come up with plausible responses to out of the normal situations, not only wastes their time but with a little creativity can make a bait worth publishing for the enjoyment of others.

(Then there are those truely selfless individuals who spend 24 hours a day closing fake bank websites. But that's another story.)

I see the problem with autobaiting is that once the situation gets out of the scammer's control and he feels that his e-mail address has become compromised, then he'll just abandon it and open another yahoo or hotmail account. Now if someone else has this particular scammer in the thralls of an incredibly intricate bait - there is the chance that they'll lose him in the change of e-mail addresses.

I do recall some members using autobaiters, but these seemed to be along the lines of just how long the scammer would keep answering the silliest questions. The ability of the autobaiters to keep the scammers in contact for ten or so exchanges of e-mails did reinforce the overwhelming belief here that the lads are generally a sandwich short of a picnic - or just so greedy that they'll answer anything.

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