SmartFeedSmartFeed          

Porsche Hangout


WELCOME - YOU ARE CURRENTLY VIEWING 419EATER AS A GUEST

By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics and access other forums reserved for members. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join our community today by clicking here.

ScamWarners.com - Internet Anti-Fraud Center - now open!


 Split from Radio show thread: Ethics of the Chad Bait

View next topic
View previous topic
 
Post new topicThis topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
Author Message
Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

capricio wrote:
But if you applied your logic and used deception on a person like that in the US/UK and were caught at it, you could likely face prosecution or at a minimum, a civil lawsuit that you would lose. The justice system would frown upon it, and you would have a devil of a time trying to convince them that you need to do their job for them.


No you wouldn't.
I have a few friends in Law Enforcement and they think that what we do is great. They're only pissed because their hands are tied by red tape whereas we can bend the rules a little.

And as one Police Sergeant put it to me: "Get into trouble over it? Do you reckon a scammer would stand in the dock and give evidence against you? If he did, he would be laughed out of court."

_________________
Star pony pony pony Nurse Nastys Audi TT Purple Flower Whip
Safari Jolly Roger Mortar Closed lad accounts Cellphone United Kingdom

God will see you true for all this you have done to me you bastard. - Collins Kalu
MAY THE HAND THAT TYPE ON KEYBORD BECOME STRICKEN AND TRANSMIT VIRUS TO YOU ENTIRE BODY. - Dr Linda Akeem
oh what a mess its time cabbage punks like u will be expose for trully what they are. - David Cole
View user's profileSend private messageYahoo MessengerSkype Name
capricio
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 95


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Slightlyoutofit wrote:

I have a few friends in Law Enforcement and they think that what we do is great. They're only pissed because their hands are tied by red tape whereas we can bend the rules a little.



Ask a District Attorney or Judge instead of a police officer. I'm betting you'll get a different answer. Smile
View user's profileSend private message
Tommo Shanter
Swiss Toni


Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 5379
Location: Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad. - Euripides


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

[Post deleted by poster.]

_________________
£1,052,334.30 (=US$2,121,125.60) lads fake cheques out of circulation (at 11/6/2008)
Closed lad accounts x135 (at 26/9/2008) Easter Egg 2013 Cellphone x138
"i see your not interested in the transaction but catching your fun, calling names and my muckery of me." - Usman Bello
"You need to visit a good psychiatrist very fast, because some nuts are missing from your brain." - PROF.SOLUDO
"...it is very important you forward the your cycling proficiency certificate which by right belongs to you." - Prof Charles Soludo.
"note i can still change my mind to blow you off and whenever" - T0ny 'The Killerman' Erik
YOUR GENERATION WILL ROAST IN ABSTRACT POVERTY,BASTARD IDIOT -Daniel Mensah

pony pony pony Pretty Rose Pretty Rose Pretty Rose Goat

Last edited by Tommo Shanter on Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
View user's profileSend private message
Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ Capricio.
It would have to get that far first. And it wouldn't.
The law works in stages and if it fell at the first stage, there's nothing to answer for.

_________________
Star pony pony pony Nurse Nastys Audi TT Purple Flower Whip
Safari Jolly Roger Mortar Closed lad accounts Cellphone United Kingdom

God will see you true for all this you have done to me you bastard. - Collins Kalu
MAY THE HAND THAT TYPE ON KEYBORD BECOME STRICKEN AND TRANSMIT VIRUS TO YOU ENTIRE BODY. - Dr Linda Akeem
oh what a mess its time cabbage punks like u will be expose for trully what they are. - David Cole

Last edited by Slightlyoutofit on Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profileSend private messageYahoo MessengerSkype Name
capricio
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 95


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Tommo Shanter wrote:


No shit Sherlock. Shame more of them don't pursue that avenue and put all of us here and at scamwarners out of a job.

You've been here since June, read the stickies, bait safe, get a mentor and join the real world.


@ Luckey & Rodus

This is pretty much what I was talking about. Rolling Eyes

@ Slightly

Drug dealers rob eachother all the time and never report it. It doesn't mean nothing illegal was done by either party. Is nothing being reported your litmus test for legality? Smile
View user's profileSend private message
GomerPyle
Pervert Bastard


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 8875
Location: Wherever I lay my hat


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This judge you mean ?

Image

_________________
Fake sites killed 1 x Australia 9 x United Kingdom 3 x 168 X Closed lad accounts Easter Egg 2011
Pith Helmet - the 'Asparagus Kid' - Accra to Lome - You Must surly Die in The Name Of Jesus Christ
Pith Helmet - Steve - Lagos to Accra
Pith Helmet - Frank - Lagos to Cotonou - co-bait with the vampire
Pith Helmet - Shorty - Lagos to Cotonou - My Agro Base farming where i rearing chicken and other animals was set ablazed overnight and we do not know who is actual behinde all these evils! -
I and my crew was locked up for 3 good days….They wanted to charge us to court but later we are fined an huge amount of money…I asked them why did they arrest the men, they started laughing and saying all sorts mockering words! -
…because now, am left with nothing and remember i told you my Guy (Joe) gave up earlier this morning
View user's profileSend private messageSkype Name
capricio
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 95


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ Gomer

My bad, I meant "Barrister", not District Attorney. Laughing
View user's profileSend private message
Tommo Shanter
Swiss Toni


Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 5379
Location: Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad. - Euripides


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ capricio

I love a good rolly. Laughing I ain't gonna fall out with you because a) we are both supposed
to be on the same side and also b)I'm tired and off to bed and c) I've seen it all before.

_________________
£1,052,334.30 (=US$2,121,125.60) lads fake cheques out of circulation (at 11/6/2008)
Closed lad accounts x135 (at 26/9/2008) Easter Egg 2013 Cellphone x138
"i see your not interested in the transaction but catching your fun, calling names and my muckery of me." - Usman Bello
"You need to visit a good psychiatrist very fast, because some nuts are missing from your brain." - PROF.SOLUDO
"...it is very important you forward the your cycling proficiency certificate which by right belongs to you." - Prof Charles Soludo.
"note i can still change my mind to blow you off and whenever" - T0ny 'The Killerman' Erik
YOUR GENERATION WILL ROAST IN ABSTRACT POVERTY,BASTARD IDIOT -Daniel Mensah

pony pony pony Pretty Rose Pretty Rose Pretty Rose Goat
View user's profileSend private message
luckey
Moderator


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 5629
Location: Check the lost and found


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:46 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
@ Luckey & Rodus

This is pretty much what I was talking about. Rolling Eyes


Fair point. Thanks for self-editing Tommo, but let's all limit ourselves to respectful and constructive comments.

Quote:
Drug dealers rob eachother all the time and never report it. It doesn't mean nothing illegal was done by either party. Is nothing being reported your litmus test for legality? Smile


What we do is not illegal. That's another reason we never get arrested.

_________________
Moderator: \ˈmä-də-ˌrā-tər\: noun
A material which slows down neutrons after fission to speeds at which their probability for interaction with the fuel material is increased.
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

capricio wrote:

@ Slightly

Drug dealers rob eachother all the time and never report it. It doesn't mean nothing illegal was done by either party. Is nothing being reported your litmus test for legality? Smile



Aw... come on dude. You can do better than that. The lads can be compared to drug dealers, but us baiters?
Maybe if you said a drug dealer robbed a guy going 1 mph over the speed limit in his car..... Even then, I'd say that's harsh on the baiter.

There are holes and loopholes in every country's laws. If there weren't the lads themselves wouldn't exist and we would be redundant. Technically, there may be times when baiters overstep the mark (I can't think of any examples off the top of my head though), but there's a big difference to doing something that's technically in the grey area to out and out criminal activity.

Personally, I would like to see JoJo, Prof and YW in jail (on Death Row). But they'll never get sent there for baiting lads. No-one in the legal profession would risk their reputation prosecuting them - even if they do stray into that grey area.

_________________
Star pony pony pony Nurse Nastys Audi TT Purple Flower Whip
Safari Jolly Roger Mortar Closed lad accounts Cellphone United Kingdom

God will see you true for all this you have done to me you bastard. - Collins Kalu
MAY THE HAND THAT TYPE ON KEYBORD BECOME STRICKEN AND TRANSMIT VIRUS TO YOU ENTIRE BODY. - Dr Linda Akeem
oh what a mess its time cabbage punks like u will be expose for trully what they are. - David Cole

Last edited by Slightlyoutofit on Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
View user's profileSend private messageYahoo MessengerSkype Name
Titania
Hell on wheels


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 2442
Location: Rollin' rollin' rollin'


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@Gomer, I don't lie. I write romantic fiction. Mr. Green

_________________
i do not know you.you need to expanciate more - C0llins W3aver
those words really made me felt completely bad..and i had to dust my ass and wipe tears Micheal David
pony pony pony Mc Fry Goat Goat Closed lad accounts Mortar x 8
Safari Stanley's Christmas Adventure 2008 - Lagos to Abuja - massbait
View user's profileSend private message
capricio
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 95


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

luckey wrote:

What we do is not illegal.


I'm not entirely confident about that, at least not in every case. I used to date a girl that was a county DA. I told her what goes on here and about some of the hilarious baits that took place. She didn't find any of it funny and was somewhat appalled. Needless to say we broke up eventually.

Granted there is nearly a 0% chance any baiter would be called to court for it, but strictly from a legal standpoint, I'm not confident that everything done here is completely legal. I'm pretty sure a court would frown upon using deception to manipulate people, even criminals. But, I'm not an attorney, and readily admit that I really don't know for sure. I'd be curious if anyone ever got an opinion from a real attorney...
View user's profileSend private message
Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

capricio wrote:
luckey wrote:

What we do is not illegal.


I'm not entirely confident about that, at least not in every case.


Back it up with an example, dude.

_________________
Star pony pony pony Nurse Nastys Audi TT Purple Flower Whip
Safari Jolly Roger Mortar Closed lad accounts Cellphone United Kingdom

God will see you true for all this you have done to me you bastard. - Collins Kalu
MAY THE HAND THAT TYPE ON KEYBORD BECOME STRICKEN AND TRANSMIT VIRUS TO YOU ENTIRE BODY. - Dr Linda Akeem
oh what a mess its time cabbage punks like u will be expose for trully what they are. - David Cole
View user's profileSend private messageYahoo MessengerSkype Name
Roycropper
Undead Moderator


Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 7993
Location: Luxury Coffin


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
I'd be curious if anyone ever got an opinion from a real attorney...


You'd be suprised who we get on here.

_________________
the European Union has bounced on our freckles
COULD YOU IMAGINE WHAT HAPPENED WHEN I WENT TO THE BANK
our Agent is Completely broke, pocketless and stranded
I WLL SEND AN AFRICA WITCH TO ATTACH YOU BASTARD
You go die like bird
i started shouting HALLELUJAGOBBLE but none of them notice me immediately police arrested me due to the shouting
f*ck u asshole ur damn mother will loose ur fcuking skull brain ur brain is nothing to compare with rat f*ck ur u
MY FRIEND ALEX WAS DETAINED IN POLICE STATION
I am not happy due to the question i answered at money office. Let me tell you do not play with me ok.
Pith Helmet 10
x4 United Kingdom New Zealand Mortar Closed lad accounts Sand Timer 6Yrs Tattoo x6 Flying Monkey
View user's profileSend private message
Corona
Eater's sweetheart


Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 8633
Location: On ya left!


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Needless to say we broke up eventually.


I would have broken up with her also. Smile

_________________
Pretty Rose Pretty Rose Pretty Rose pony pony pony Nurse Nastys Audi TT Nurse Nastys Audi TT Nurse Nastys Audi TT GoatGoatGoatEaster EggEaster 2015Mc Fry Mc Fry
Mortarx? Closed lad accountsx? Pith Helmet
Free Pastor Frank
An Eater's Sweetheart Safari
View user's profileSend private message
capricio
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 95


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ Slightly

Okay, like sending lads to break into other lads' homes to take property.

Or how about convincing lads to fight each other, or that one stole from the other?

Not saying there isn't element of Karma to it, but how would a court interpret it? Be honest about this, not your own opinion/feelings, or mine... but how a court would see it?
View user's profileSend private message
Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Honestly? A UK court or US court wouldn't give a crap.
Without even getting into wether or not the baiter has committed a crime, the "victim" is a foreign national in his own country.
I can't speak for the US but over here in the UK, if there isn't a UK victim, there isn't a crime. The law here works on a "customer service" basis. The customer has to be a UK citizen or on UK territory. The victim is the customer.
No customer, no crime.

Any prosecution would have to be kickstarted by the lad's own police force. Only then could UK LE get involved.

_________________
Star pony pony pony Nurse Nastys Audi TT Purple Flower Whip
Safari Jolly Roger Mortar Closed lad accounts Cellphone United Kingdom

God will see you true for all this you have done to me you bastard. - Collins Kalu
MAY THE HAND THAT TYPE ON KEYBORD BECOME STRICKEN AND TRANSMIT VIRUS TO YOU ENTIRE BODY. - Dr Linda Akeem
oh what a mess its time cabbage punks like u will be expose for trully what they are. - David Cole
View user's profileSend private messageYahoo MessengerSkype Name
GomerPyle
Pervert Bastard


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 8875
Location: Wherever I lay my hat


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:16 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

My Lad states that Nigerian police only get off their rear ends if they receive a hefty bribe.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure a court would frown upon using deception to manipulate people, even criminals.


So when a mugger asks if I have any money I am legally obliged to tell the truth ?

Laughing

_________________
Fake sites killed 1 x Australia 9 x United Kingdom 3 x 168 X Closed lad accounts Easter Egg 2011
Pith Helmet - the 'Asparagus Kid' - Accra to Lome - You Must surly Die in The Name Of Jesus Christ
Pith Helmet - Steve - Lagos to Accra
Pith Helmet - Frank - Lagos to Cotonou - co-bait with the vampire
Pith Helmet - Shorty - Lagos to Cotonou - My Agro Base farming where i rearing chicken and other animals was set ablazed overnight and we do not know who is actual behinde all these evils! -
I and my crew was locked up for 3 good days….They wanted to charge us to court but later we are fined an huge amount of money…I asked them why did they arrest the men, they started laughing and saying all sorts mockering words! -
…because now, am left with nothing and remember i told you my Guy (Joe) gave up earlier this morning
View user's profileSend private messageSkype Name
capricio
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 95


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:16 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ slightly

Okay fine, the whole process originates from a Nigerian court. Would they have grounds to request your extradition? Would your own country refuse them despite convincing evidence of a criminal conspiracy? I've seen baiters also manipulate domestic scammers, though not by means of those two specific case types I mentioned.

Forget about the lad and his crime for a minute, because the courts probably would treat that as a completely separate matter/offense.

Edit: typing too fast! I'm really not comfortable arguing legal stuff, but I'm also unconvinced that I'm wrong on this point. Laughing
View user's profileSend private message
Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

There are way too many hypotheticals there.
But let's say a crime actually has been committed? The next thing the law would have to do would be to prove intent. That would be nigh on impossible.

But those hypotheticals make the question almost irrelevant.

You'd need a crime.
You'd need the lad to report it.
You'd need your country to decide wether it's a crime.
You'd need intent.
You'd need an extradition treaty.
You'd need the lad to give evidence.
There are probably dozens of other things that would also have to be taken into account before a baiter could be prosecuted.

Way, way too many variables and that's without even taking into account that there isn't anything that we do that can be classified as criminal activity.

_________________
Star pony pony pony Nurse Nastys Audi TT Purple Flower Whip
Safari Jolly Roger Mortar Closed lad accounts Cellphone United Kingdom

God will see you true for all this you have done to me you bastard. - Collins Kalu
MAY THE HAND THAT TYPE ON KEYBORD BECOME STRICKEN AND TRANSMIT VIRUS TO YOU ENTIRE BODY. - Dr Linda Akeem
oh what a mess its time cabbage punks like u will be expose for trully what they are. - David Cole
View user's profileSend private messageYahoo MessengerSkype Name
Ari
Elite Baiter


Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 1269


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

capricio wrote:
I'd be curious if anyone ever got an opinion from a real attorney...
My father is a lawyer. He knows what baiting is and hasn't said anything about it being illegal.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure a court would frown upon using deception to manipulate people, even criminals.
I'm pretty sure that undercover officers don't go around telling people that they're undercover officers...
View user's profileSend private message
capricio
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 95


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Special_K wrote:
I'm pretty sure that undercover officers don't go around telling people that they're undercover officers...


Yeah but operating as an LEO is a different thing entirely.

If you convince a lad to assault another lad, are you legally absolved of any chance of prosecution? You provided motive and intent by deception. Again, please try to distance yourself from the morality of it or the justice in your actions.

To me, the safaris are great. I really enjoy reading about them. But I think to myself sometimes that one day a lad is gonna die. And while I personally wouldn't find it all that troubling, deaths are something even the corrupt Nigerian system would probably get off it's ass to look into.

You guys are just making the argument that since the system would fail, you have no legal liability, at all. I know it's all hypothetical, but lets say a baiter didn't cover this tracks and a death finally happens... Nigeria wants you extradited and they have the emails and network device logs to prove you were pulling the strings. Are you sure you have nothing to worry about, from a legal standpoint?
View user's profileSend private message
Ima Baeder
419Eater Admin


Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 18314


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Who is the deceased in that scenario? Barrister David Mark (or some other fake name)? Because that's who the emails from the baiter would probably have been addressed to. The person the baiter is writing to doesn't exist.

_________________
348 Fake Sites killed United StatesUnited KingdomUnited NationsMaltaNigeriaGhanaBeninGermanySouth AfricaRussiaTogoMalaysiaEuropean UnionJapanIvory CoastSpainFranceSwitzerlandChinaCanadaItalyThailand

Star Mugu Reseller Mortar Closed lad accounts x 100 Sand Timer 2 Years Pretty Rose Mc Fry Mc Fry Nurse Nastys Audi TT Goat Flying Monkey Easter Egg 2011
View user's profileSend private message
GomerPyle
Pervert Bastard


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 8875
Location: Wherever I lay my hat


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
You provided motive and intent by deception


No - the scammer did.

In the UK the police run very successful 'sting' operatons against thieves and and I have never ever heard any criminal ever attempt to assert that it was illegal because they were deceived.

They used to show them on TV and they were very amusing.

_________________
Fake sites killed 1 x Australia 9 x United Kingdom 3 x 168 X Closed lad accounts Easter Egg 2011
Pith Helmet - the 'Asparagus Kid' - Accra to Lome - You Must surly Die in The Name Of Jesus Christ
Pith Helmet - Steve - Lagos to Accra
Pith Helmet - Frank - Lagos to Cotonou - co-bait with the vampire
Pith Helmet - Shorty - Lagos to Cotonou - My Agro Base farming where i rearing chicken and other animals was set ablazed overnight and we do not know who is actual behinde all these evils! -
I and my crew was locked up for 3 good days….They wanted to charge us to court but later we are fined an huge amount of money…I asked them why did they arrest the men, they started laughing and saying all sorts mockering words! -
…because now, am left with nothing and remember i told you my Guy (Joe) gave up earlier this morning
View user's profileSend private messageSkype Name
capricio
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 95


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ Ima

Again, you're relying on some part of the process to fail or some technicality to come into play. Lets just pretend for a moment that it doesn't.

Scenario:

Someone can prove that you instigated/provoked one lad to assault another one through deception.

Now what? No worries? Courts won't find you did anything they consider illegal? Please approach it objectively, from a legal standpoint. Can you still tell me they wouldn't find you guilty of something?

GomerPyle wrote:
There was no threat involved, only his own desire to steal money.



You don't think the little idiot would tell the court about saving the girl that was in mortal danger? We both agree, the lockbox was his true motive, but you DID try to twist him around with "saving the girl", even if he undoubtably thought he was just going to get laid. Smile
View user's profileSend private message
Display posts from previous:      
Post new topicThis topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.


 Jump to:   



View next topic
View previous topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



E-Mail Header Analysis


All Content © 2003 - 419Eater.com
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group :S5: FI Theme :: All times are GMT